Libertarianism: Based or Cringe? - Thanks for reading my schizo rant

[gang weeder]

Wondering what farmers would say.

I guess since it's my thread and I'm putting here rather than Mass Debates I should start with my take. I think libertarianism is mostly cringe, and avoid being total cringe because there are a lot of other things that are much worse. But it's basically misguided because humans are a tribal species. Libertarianism IME typically portrays people as autonomous islands of total self-determination who are highly rational and deliberate. A cursory glance at real life indicates that while maybe a small few people are close to that the vast majority are not like this at all, and will fold like paper if confronted by a highly emotional mob, usually assimilating into said mob and adopting its views as their own.

This is why despite making lots of sense in the abstract it never seems to get any traction in the real world. Humans aren't like bears which actually do live alone for the most part and only come together to mate and such (at least I'm pretty sure bears are a solitary species like that..... imagine they are for the sake of argument I guess). Then you have the other extreme which would be something like communism, which is probably worse, and fails because humans aren't ants either. Real life politics is more complex than these single-variable extremist ideologies because humans themselves are too complex to be boiled down to a single axiom that is always correct. But people also suck at thinking about politics and morality in the abstract so they often oversimplify it into these types of views.

 

[DumbDude43]

pretty good take overall

in my opinion, libertarianism is self-defeating like anarchism. if your ideology rejects the exercise of power over others, then it is doomed to fail and be snuffed out when confronted by another ideology that does not shy away from exercising power over you.

humans are naturally power-hungry, power vacuums can never last for long.

 

[Neo-Nazi Rich Evans]

as a former libertarian i say the ideology is mostly cringe and the typical follower is very cringe and autistic. that is all.

 

[Divine right to rule]

Cringe.
You just need a state and a military.
It is a shame that those jokers are pretty much the only ones seriously supporting a small state.
For me, a small nation state of overwhelmingly the same ethnicity, culture and religion paired with a small state that protects the fairness of the market and basic worker's and tenants rights, builds the basic infrastructure and protects and upholds order would be ideal.

 

[Troonos]

Libertarian Party cringe.

Libertarian ideology based.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

A libertarian position is my default stance but I also know there are circumstances where it just won't work or the cost-benefit tradeoff is poor. I'd rather err on the side of freedom whenever possible, that's pretty much it.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Libertarianism is a failed ideology. The problem with Libertarianism is that in some situations government power in necessary.
Even if you completely get rid of the power of the government they will push that power to corporations, NGOs, and activists in order to circumvent
government restrictions. Libertarians will never address those later groups and will ultimately become doormats to be walked over by those groups.
Libertarianism may have been a good idea with Ron Paul back in 2012 but with the amount of power corporations, NGOs and activists have today it will
be nothing but an ideology of failure. It is now very cringe.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

Former ancap here.

It's fucking cringe.

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD IS ATTACKING LIBERTARIANISM BECAUSE IT IS AN IDENTIFIABLE IDEOLOGY. If I said: Do you agree with limited government, lowering taxes, gun rights, freedom of association, laissez faire capitalism etc. basically all libertarian position, you'd say "uh huh, TOTALLY AGREE!" The only reason you say it's cringe is because there's an identifiable group of cringe shitheads who call themselves libertarian and you don't want to be associated with them.

For me, a small nation state of overwhelmingly the same ethnicity, culture and religion paired with a small state that protects the fairness of the market and basic worker's and tenants rights, builds the basic infrastructure and protects and upholds order would be ideal.

That's CRINGE bro, I want a huge multicultural dynastic empire because fighting wars of conquest is COOL. What you're describing is basically Amish. If you really believed in your vision for a state, you'd convert to Old Order Amish Mennonite Church, learn Pennsylvania Dutch and move to an Amish town. Instead, you're living in multi-cultural muttmerica and eating your ethnic goyslop

 

[Sqwe-wi_Farmer]

Based. Communism is cringe. They even start with the same letter

 

[Distant Ranger]

Deeply cringe. It's turning a cope into a political standing. There is no virtue in having no convictions other than stopping people who want to banish demons from political power because "Then you would be as bad as them". No, we are correct and they are wrong, stand up for something or die for nothing

 

[Ultrapenguin]

I think party self-identification itself is awfully cringe.
Yes people who call themselves libertarian tend to be pretty embarrassing, but that applies to most people who call themselves anything political.

Although it seems especially self-contradictory for libertarians, because if they were that libertarian why would they feel compelled to categorize themselves under a pre-defined label like that?

EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD IS ATTACKING LIBERTARIANISM BECAUSE IT IS AN IDENTIFIABLE IDEOLOGY. If I said: Do you agree with limited government, lowering taxes, gun rights, freedom of association, laissez faire capitalism etc. basically all libertarian position, you'd say "uh huh, TOTALLY AGREE!" The only reason you say it's cringe is because there's an identifiable group of cringe shitheads who call themselves libertarian and you don't want to be associated with them.


That's CRINGE bro, I want a huge multicultural dynastic empire because fighting wars of conquest is COOL. What you're describing is basically Amish. If you really believed in your vision for a state, you'd convert to Old Order Amish Mennonite Church, learn Pennsylvania Dutch and move to an Amish town. Instead, you're living in multi-cultural muttmerica and eating your ethnic goyslop

I like the font choice, it really helps to complete the authentic "encountering a crazy person on the internet" experience.

 

[Tiny Chinaman]

It is the road to male pregnancy

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

The only reason you say it's cringe is because there's an identifiable group of cringe shitheads who call themselves libertarian and you don't want to be associated with them.

I really wish someone could explain this to me in no uncertain terms, what are the Libertarians doing that's turning people away?

Although it seems especially self-contradictory for libertarians, because if they were that libertarian why would they feel compelled to categorize themselves under a pre-defined label like that?

Which is easier, to say you like gun rights, free speech, small/decentralized government, capitalism, ect. or just say you're Libertarian?

 

[Dr. Funk]

EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD IS ATTACKING LIBERTARIANISM BECAUSE IT IS AN IDENTIFIABLE IDEOLOGY.

I mean fair, but along that line of thinking you can be a "civil libertarian" or have opinions or beliefs that broadly lean "libertarian" without being a capital-L Libertarian. The American "Libertarian Party" are widely regarded as cranks for a reason.

 

[ffo kcuF]

I think libertarianism is just what people think they want when they don't know what they want. One group of lolberts just want freedom (whatever that means) and are generally morally sensible and based, yet another group of lolberts want to shoot up heroin and fuck minors without consequence. (extreme cases I know)

Libertarianism isn't a real philosophy and is in a constant state of contradiction between factions. The wiki explanation sounds good on paper, but that's not how it translates into the real world.

 

[Shart Attack]

Big "L" Libertarians are terminally cringe. The comments section of any given Reason.com article is guaranteed to be full of lolcows with a thousand sock accounts tard fighting over whether or not a nation should have borders, even if the article is about a cop shutting down a kid's lemonade stand. It's actually pretty funny in the same way a zoo monkey poop fight is funny.

Small "l" libertarians just want the government to leave them alone as much as possible. As far as I'm concerned, it's the only rational mindset to have in a country run by pedophile control freaks and soulless war criminals.

 

[A Cardboard Box]

Libertarianism is cringe because it's virtually indistinguishable from corporatocracy. You're exchanging tyranny of government for tyranny of private corporations.

The objectively best form of government is a total autocracy where the head of government aggressively uses the apparatus of state to preserve the freedom of the individual.

 

[Whatevermancer]

I think it's based cause why the fuck is government forcing me to get a license to drive my car? Or forbids me to dump radioactive waste on my land? It's my property. Mine. You have no business telling me what to do with it.
JK.

 

[The Fountainhead]

I think it's based cause why the fuck is government forcing me to get a license to drive my car? Or forbids me to dump radioactive waste on my land? It's my property. Mine. You have no business telling me what to do with it.
JK.

In theory, yes. But if you dump radioactive waste on your land and a strong wind blows it across the property line and poisons the surrounding plots of land you would be responsible. And if you cannot compensate your neighbors monetarily, then you'll likely be sent to prison for life.

On the other hand, if you're a millionaire, you can buy nuclear weapons and threaten to detonate three or four of them if your neighbors start to get on your nerves.