Looking for hidden Nazis in my network


Checking my cellphone bill the other day, I found myself wondering just how many Nazis use the same service as me. Probably hundreds, since I use one of the three biggest cell providers in the country. What were the ethics, I wondered, of paying a company that was being used to spread hate?

If this question seems somewhat absurd to you, you probably haven’t been following the controversy over Nazis on Substack.
Substack is a platform that publishes email newsletters for independent authors — including my husband, who writes a weekly newsletter about home bartending. Thousands of authors use the platform, and, collectively, they reach tens of millions of subscribers. Almost none of the authors, or the subscribers, are Nazis. But a few appear to be either Nazis or Nazi-adjacent, which led Jonathan Katz to write in the Atlantic in November that there were “scores of white-supremacist, neo-Confederate, and explicitly Nazi newsletters on Substack.”

Furious reactions and counterreactions ensued. A bunch of Substack authors banded together to pressure the platform to ditch the racists, with an implied threat to leave (as several users later did). A different group urged Substack to leave them be, because “Substack shouldn’t decide what we read.” Substack removed a few of the worst accounts but otherwise remained committed to minimalist moderation. It was all quite reminiscent of the social media moderation wars of the past ten years.

Yet there was a key difference because, on social media, people arguing for bans on various kinds of offensive content often voiced reasonable fears of harassment by users who bombarded them with grotesque slurs. On Substack, you had to actively seek out Nazi content, so the Nazis were mostly talking to one another. That distilled the argument to the question: When and how should private companies be expected to join society’s fight against hate?


Hence my musings about my cellphone: : Should I pay for service from a big company that I’m pretty sure does business with Nazis — even if that number is small — and by doing business with them, provides them a means to share their noxious views? Should AT&T or Verizon or T-Mobile shut the objectionable accounts down?

To the people who demanded Substack shut down offensive accounts, this sort of question seems ridiculous: We are dealing with actual white supremacists who are using a newsletter platform to spread the most toxic, disgusting forms of hate. Let’s focus on getting rid of the Nazis, and worry about these hazy theoreticals later, okay?

I have some sympathy for this argument. Though I’m pretty much a free-speech absolutist, I find myself tempted to carve out a special, one-time exception for Nazis, especially because we’re talking about rules set by private companies, not the government.

But I’m unwilling to go down this road without a clear sense of where, exactly, all this will stop. Swastikas, obviously, but what about white supremacists who don’t identify as Nazis? What about people who don’t identify as white supremacists but just seem really racist?

The debates over these kinds of bans have yet to produce any kind of workable framework for deciding which companies should do what to whom, and which companies should keep providing services, even to Nazis. Sure, when pressed, the organizers can describe how, say, Substack is different from the phone company — but without firm general principles to start from, that’s all they’re doing, describing how Substack is different from the phone company.

And in practice, the quest to de-platform Nazis has gone pretty deep into the infrastructure of the internet and, for that matter, daily life. The Daily Stormer, a Nazi website, has been repeatedly denied service by companies that provide basic internet services such as routing traffic and connectivity. Activists have successfully pressured payment processors and banks to close the accounts of white supremacists, including the infamous Richard Spencer. Trying to cut people off from the financial system doesn’t really seem all that far from trying to cut them off from the cellphone network.

I suspect many of my readers are thinking “Who cares? They’re Nazis.” But just as I don’t think it stops with Substack, I have no faith that it stops with Nazis either. Conservative Christians, anti-vaxxers and others whose views stop well short of “American Reich” keep making it on the list of people who should be de-platformed, debanked and otherwise deleted. As I followed the arguments over Substack’s Nazi problem, it was striking how often and how quickly the discussion about Nazis would segue into discussion about their prior refusal to ban gender-critical or anti-vaccine writers.

You might not be sad to lose the anti-vaxxers or the transphobes, either. But notice that we’re now talking about views that are broadly held, even if you think they shouldn’t be. And this is where the lack of limiting principles has become a problem, not just for me but also for the would-be censors. Nazis are a tiny, noxious minority, and most of the rest of America would be glad to do anything it takes to shut them up forever. But they’ll still think twice if doing so means handing the would-be censors tools they might use to silence the much larger number of people who disagree with them.
 
I have some sympathy for this argument. Though I’m pretty much a free-speech absolutist, I find myself tempted to carve out a special, one-time exception for Nazis, especially because we’re talking about rules set by private companies, not the government.
basically every telephone line & cell tower in USA is the result of government subsidization
 
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Though I’m pretty much a free-speech absolutist, I find myself tempted to carve out a special, one-time exception for Nazis
Woman logic in one succulent sentence. "I am totes an absolutist! but when something gives me the fuzzy-wuzzies then I'll make an exception"

Edit - just realized this is Megan McArdle, who got fired from Bloomberg for being such a dippy airhead.
 
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Daily reminder all of this bullshit screeching from these faggot faces, comes 100% from the fact that they are salty as fuck that A. The left dismissed Substack as a nothingburger during it's formative early years, meaning that they never bothered to try and colonize it and as such, the anti-woke crowd and normie adjacent types instead colonized it, meaning the lunatic lefties failed to hijack it in the crib so as to ensure they got special treatment/the rules of the site being written in a way to basically give them the ability to ban anyone they don't like from the website for wrongthink ala Medium and B. the fact that Substack gave HUGE fucking cash advances to major anti-woke types and normies who have called out the woke death kult for their shit to get them to come to Substack, while not giving a dime to the usual suspects on the woke side of things to come onboard, making them eternally butt-hurt they didn't get a free payday.
 
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"NAZIS could be here" he thought, "I've never been in this neighborhood before. There could be NAZIS anywhere." The cool wind felt good against his bare chest. "I HATE NAZIS" he thought. Sweet Dreams are Made of These reverberated his entire car, making it pulsate even as the $9 wine circulated through his powerful thick veins and washed away his (merited) fear of wignats after dark. "With a car, you can go anywhere you want" he said to himself, out loud.
Seeing those gas prices makes me sad :( and the milk! The gas station milk is only 3 buck! I thought that was diesel at first but no its milk dammit!
 
Runner-ups:
  • "I'm pretty much a marriage-equality absolutist, but I find myself tempted to carve out a special, one-time exception for the worst degenerates out there"
  • "I'm pretty much a civil rights absolutist, but I find myself tempted to carve out a special, one-time exception for niggers"
  • "I'm pretty much an open-borders absolutist, but I find myself tempted to carve out a special, one-time exception for non-whites"
You forgot: "I'm pro-2A, but hummuna hummuna weapons of war blah blah blah I grew up hunting/was a box-kicker in the military hurba durba durdurdurr."
 
It used to be that Western nations held freedom of speech as sacred. That we believed the best way forward was through debate and the exchange of ideas. That it took different ideas and different perspectives to overcome the issues we as a society face, but that also meant hearing out every voice. Not anymore, apparently. Now they insist that in order to save "Our Democracy" we need to silence any voice, any view that the Left doesn't like. Which is the same kind of tactic every cult and dictatorship has used since time began. Because different views and voices might change people's minds and give them options they'd rather have over what TPTB have given them.
 
> I’m pretty much a free-speech absolutist, I find myself tempted to carve out a special, one-time exception

Oh of course. I bet I can probably make some predictions about this journoslime's opinions on property seizure, death penalty, neighborhood covenants, other 2a,4a,5a etc bill of rights protections. and on and on
besides the kvetching about "problematic users", the whole article can be summed up in one picture:

gravity.jpg
 
"Nazis" also pay for electricity.. That surely helps them digitally spread their message. Water services too. I mean where does it end? Which is why this whole line of argument, all the way up to web sites and services, is dangerous and nonsense!

When are we going to do something about all the open communists working at public schools, on tax payer money? You know, the ideology that directly lead to more deaths, murders, then all nazis throughout history.

By the end of the article I think the author is coming down mostly on the "it's a bad idea" side.. but they give too much to the fallacious argument that nazis are something different/special and need to be singled out.
 
This does not speak well of the author's intelligence. One of the three biggest cell-phone networks in the USA, so quick and dirty estimate we're talking 90million subscribers, ballpark. And of these 90 million there are "probably hundreds".

I don't rightly know if I'm criticising the author for not realising how weak that makes her argument sound or for thinking that the number is that low. Why not both?
That number also likely includes pedophiles, child molesters, rapists and a few serial killers. Funny how the author has no problem with any of those using the same service

and I bet the author also supports ukraine 110%. But no mention about the nazi units fighting for ukraine either
 
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"Nazis" also pay for electricity.. That surely helps them digitally spread their message. Water services too. I mean where does it end? Which is why this whole line of argument, all the way up to web sites and services, is dangerous and nonsense!

When are we going to do something about all the open communists working at public schools, on tax payer money? You know, the ideology that directly lead to more deaths, murders, then all nazis throughout history.

By the end of the article I think the author is coming down mostly on the "it's a bad idea" side.. but they give too much to the fallacious argument that nazis are something different/special and need to be singled out.
Some spastics here can't read that this article is supporting free speech because the delineation of 'nazis' is always way too broad and always goes too far.
 
If you ban the Nazis off Substack, then how will the fed and state Nazi hunter glowops continue to catfish each other?
 
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