Love-shy-esque in need of help

[Have a Pepsi]

See that? I put "love-shy-esque" instead of the regular thing. Because in terms of depression and sorrows, I really think I'm like them; in terms of dealing with said feelings, their faces make me want to punch a hole in the wall. A brick wall. The missing things I sort of fulfill in my dreamland aren't entirely satisfying... So I basically just have to live with awful feelings, but there has to be SOME kind of answer. :/

As you've probably read from me before, I feel like the very worst part of my live is having never had a girlfriend. I really do not give a damn about sex - in fact, the thought of intercourse repulses me - all I want is someone I love to love me. So my problem is not "I'm only looking to lose my virginity".

My self image is... Complicated. I think I'm a nice, friendly person. I think I have talents and things I'm good at. I believe I have value, I guess would be the point I'm trying to make here. In terms of what I'm like on the outside, I don't think I'm terribly ugly - my only elements of ugliness, in my opinion, are acne, which I just started medication for, and slightly odd fat distribution, but it's not much of a problem. But because my feelings for anyone have never been reciprocated, nor have I had so much as anyone take a liking to me, it's like I told one of my friends: if I truly believe the sky is green, would we say that the sky is green only to me? Or would we say that I'm colorblind? So my problem should not be "I don't have enough confidence".

Ladies I simply pal around with for an hour or so then ask out always say "no" (usually something worse, though). Females that I'm friends with for a while before asking out always say "no", and about half the time, end the friendship because of it. And, long story short, I'm never all creepy about it. So my problem is not "I approach them stupidly".

Aside from meeting people at school or at my part-time job, I also attend a local annual convention and bi-weekly game night. So my problem is not "I don't get out enough".

Aside from the internet and video games, I produce my own music, write stories, photograph, draw/write up video game concepts, and take care of a very sweet monitor lizard. I've also taken the time to become fluent in Hawaiian, and am now studying the Japanese language. So my problem is not "I need to get a life" or "I need to take up a hobby or something to make myself feel better".

I really don't know what my problem is... Shouldn't I be worth something in the world of romance? I may be only 19, but I really don't care; after 7 years, I'm not saying "I should have met my soulmate by now" (which is a popular little strawman), but if I could have any kind of relationship at all, even a crappy one, shouldn't someone have at least liked me by now? Even if I didn't like them back? I seriously hope I'm not being a dillweed for talking to you guys about this... But with all my IRL friends, they eventually get frustrated with me because after they give me one of those answers I quoted uptop, I tell them why that can't be my problem, and they eventually get frustrated, too, because they can't figure it out. And you talked with silentprincess about similar topics in a very friendly manner, but, if this is bastardly of me... Delete this, I guess. :/

 

[KatsuKitty]

You're nineteen. I did jack squat until I was twenty-two and I loved her so much that I like to think that it was all worth the wait.

The advice you're looking for is the same advice we all should take when we look for dates. Identify what you are interested in and get involved in that circle of people. Sooner or later, there is an overwhelming possibility that it just happens, despite what your strongest feelings may suggest.

 

[Silver]

You say you're not creepy when you ask women out, but, if you are not, it doesn't seem like they should be willing to end the friendship because of it. If anything, for me it was the opposite - twice - two male friends expressed interest and at the time I was not into either of them yet their telling me they liked me made me more willing to hang around them. What do you do when you ask women out, and what do your interactions with women - friends and strangers - look like? Be honest in all details. You may be completely right that you don't come across as creepy, in which case there wouldn't seem to be a problem and my only advice would be what Katsu suggested. But I'd like to know more, first.

 

[Have a Pepsi]

You say you're not creepy when you ask women out, but, if you are not, it doesn't seem like they should be willing to end the friendship because of it. If anything, for me it was the opposite - twice - two male friends expressed interest and at the time I was not into either of them yet their telling me they liked me made me more willing to hang around them. What do you do when you ask women out, and what do your interactions with women - friends and strangers - look like? Be honest in all details. You may be completely right that you don't come across as creepy, in which case there wouldn't seem to be a problem and my only advice would be what Katsu suggested. But I'd like to know more, first.

That's a bit of a tall order. I don't interact with everyone the exact same way... So a generalization would be impossible. I'm sorry, that sounds like a cop-out, but, it truly isn't meant to be. :/

 

[Silver]

No, I understand completely, haha. If anything that's a positive indicator.

 

[Glaive]

I think sometimes a lot of people confuse the desire for an intimate relationship with simply needing a close friend. You mention you go to a sort of game-night and have some acquaintances and and the like, but do you have anyone you talk to on a frequent basis? Someone that knows you really well and can talk to on a personal level?

I think that is something even more important to have, and without a good buddy, feelings of nogf seem to dramatically increase. I have someone I message online literally every day, keeps me grounded to a degree. I'm not saying that a close friend is a substitute for a gf, but if you aren't meeting your basic needs of socialization at that level then worrying about a gf is pretty trivial. Plus to top it off if you are valuing relationships THAT much, you might drive away those people that you actually need the most in your life. Don't be obsessive and reevaluate what you really want.

Good luck.

 

[Niachu]

Why do you want a girlfriend so much? I'm a girl who doesn't place much value on romance so it's hard for me to understand this complaint.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Why do you want a girlfriend so much? I'm a girl who doesn't place much value on romance so it's hard for me to understand this complaint.

Perhaps he just wishes he was more sociable than he really is, but doesn't know how to do it. Seeing a girlfriend as an indicator of social status could be a symptom of this belief.

 

[CatParty]

You are so young! You are still learning all this complicated adult socialization. Heck I'm 36 and still don't get half of it. Believe me, things will click. Don't be so hard on yourself. Remember you are the most important part of your life.

 

[Marvin]

I think sometimes a lot of people confuse the desire for an intimate relationship with simply needing a close friend. You mention you go to a sort of game-night and have some acquaintances and and the like, but do you have anyone you talk to on a frequent basis? Someone that knows you really well and can talk to on a personal level?

I think that is something even more important to have, and without a good buddy, feelings of nogf seem to dramatically increase. I have someone I message online literally every day, keeps me grounded to a degree. I'm not saying that a close friend is a substitute for a gf, but if you aren't meeting your basic needs of socialization at that level then worrying about a gf is pretty trivial. Plus to top it off if you are valuing relationships THAT much, you might drive away those people that you actually need the most in your life. Don't be obsessive and reevaluate what you really want.

Good luck.

I absolutely would say that. I mean, aside from that you're not fucking your good friends. (Or maybe you are? I don't know!)

I think I agree with Niachu. To me, there are friends, and then there are people I fuck. (And smaller categories, like family or business associates, but they don't impact my day-to-day life that much) An overlap in those groups would be nice, but I'm perfectly happy otherwise.

 

[Pine Tar]

I know how you feel. You feel you're not worth it or you feel that no matter what you do, you can't do anything right. Because one year ago, I felt exactly as you did. Then, I took a road trip halfway across the North American continent and it was successful. And things just started getting better from there as a sort of confidence multiplier.

I'm not saying taking a giant road trip will cure everything, but taking some time to go out and see what the rest of the country has to offer really put things in perspective.

 

[Christ-Chan]

I didn't have my first girlfriend until I was 19 either and somehow that part of my life worked out with due time (the rest of my life, not so much).
Having romantic partners shouldn't be a defining part of your personality though.

EDIT: And unlike Marvin, my romantic partners have been very much like friends - my best friends in fact. It's not something I'm proud of but I've also had my share of "quick flings", let's call it, and they never did very much for me to be honest, but your mileage may vary. Finding a girl is often harder than finding a boy, in my opinion, but girls tend do work out better so there's always that.

 

[pickleniggo]

I don't know where people get the idea that relationships are a missing puzzle piece to life. They aren't. If fact, relationships are pretty difficult until you figure out what each of you actually want and at that point it might not even be each other. Anyway. My advice would be to simply keep socializing, and don't be so quick about trying to get a date. Think to yourself why you would want to go out with that particular girl. A lot of people around me jump into relationships that make no sense because they're lonely, even I've done it and that ended horribly when I realized that it wasn't what I wanted. If you have friends that know girls, ask about them (not in like a creepy stalker way, but just get a feel for what kind of person they're like).

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

You say you're not creepy when you ask women out, but, if you are not, it doesn't seem like they should be willing to end the friendship because of it. If anything, for me it was the opposite - twice - two male friends expressed interest and at the time I was not into either of them yet their telling me they liked me made me more willing to hang around them.

It makes things work out a lot better if you present yourself as being perfectly okay with hearing "no".

I've asked out multiple girls who, as it turned out, weren't interested at all. I actually managed to develop friendships with them anyway. (And later on, one of them decided she was interested.)

 

[Varis]

I've asked out multiple girls who, as it turned out, weren't interested at all. I actually managed to develop friendships with them anyway. (And later on, one of them decided she was interested.)

^ This so much.

I didn't get my first boyfriend until I was 19, and we essentially started off as friends. I had a crush on him for nine months before that, but I wanted to learn to know him first and be sure that he wasn't a douchebag who only saw me as a walking pair of tits.

 

[hellbound]

Here's a couple issues I can see right off the bat.

You're 19 and talking about serious relationships. Okay, that's not unique by any means but a lot of people your age are thinking a lot more about hooking up. Not all, but it's a lot more common than going into things expecting a long-term relationship.

You're talking about girls you "pal around with" for a while or are friends with for a while. While it's not uncommon at all for people to move from friendship to dating (my crazy ex and I started that way), try an environment where you are immediately setting up expectations of dating rather than friendship. Don't think in terms of being "friendzoned" or stupid bullshit like that, but instead of "palling around," you know, flirt and shit. It's not easy if you're kind of a shy person, I'll admit, but if you're not even subtly expressing that you want to take her out, it can seem predatory when you DO ask her out, like you were trying to hide it for some reason. Try a dating site maybe. I met my current GF on OKCupid. It can be easier to start the conversation with messages than in person.

I know you say you have hobbies, but the thing is your hobbies sound like solitary ones, and you're not really going to meet too many people (friends or girlfriends) taking care of a monitor lizard or writing or self-studying languages. If you're learning Japanese, maybe try and find a Meetup group or college club that gets together to practice Japanese. Or a writing group where people get together to share their stories and critique, or a gaming club, or something that gets you interacting with other people on a regular basis. My brother loves board gaming has met many of his friends and most of his girlfriends at board gaming groups. It lets you deal with people with whom you have a common interest. Super easy way to get friends while doing something you enjoy.

And most importantly, let go of your desire to get a girlfriend. I know this seems contrary, but you are quite plainly desperate from the way you're talking about this, and desperation is a HUGE turnoff to most people. As ABL says, it's much better to present yourself as OK with hearing "no" and this is practically impossible if you aren't truly OK with hearing "no." You must find fulfillment without a relationship, because requiring fulfillment in another is a sure path to suffering. This is not to say stop trying, because it won't fall in your lap, and it's not to say be prepared to live your whole life alone, because most people wouldn't be capable of that, but realize that you are you and must be able to find fulfillment in yourself or at best you'll be a clingy, needy pain-in-the-ass if you can find somebody willing to date you.

A bonus part to being able to find fulfillment in yourself without another is you become able to deal with it when it doesn't work out, and able to let go if you really should. I mentioned about my crazy ex earlier, and I should have let that relationship go much earlier than I did, but we had become dependent on one another for fulfillment and so continued a toxic and painful cycle of abuse, neglect, breakup, and running back to one another too many times. Now, it absolutely still WILL be painful if you grow to love somebody and it ends, no matter what, but too many people force themselves to remain with somebody they shouldn't because they require fulfillment in somebody else and removing themselves from that is too much to bear, no matter how miserable being with that person makes them.

 

[Have a Pepsi]

Oh, man... I'm getting so much conflicting information, not just taking into account this thread... "Never give up" and "Stop trying", "Make them your friends first" and "Try asking them flat-out"... But I guess I wasn't expecting any definitive answers either.

It would take me all night to reply to each and every comment here - I mean, they were all really well-thought out and all that - so I guess I'll be writing in response to all of y'all in saying I'm going to try to change my behavior a bit. I'll try to be less enthusiastic about love. Or at least, I want to be less enthusiastic about love, to the degree of which you guys are talking about. But how can I even do that? I really feel like my personality is hard-coded.

(P.S. The herpetology community is actually a very nice one; I have met a good deal of people through it, among other hobbies I've listed)

 

[Pine Tar]

If all else fails, just ask a woman out the caveman way.

Or not if you'd like to avoid a ton of legal/moral trouble.

 

[Lefty's Revenge]

Oh, man... I'm getting so much conflicting information, not just taking into account this thread... "Never give up" and "Stop trying", "Make them your friends first" and "Try asking them flat-out"... But I guess I wasn't expecting any definitive answers either.

It would take me all night to reply to each and every comment here - I mean, they were all really well-thought out and all that - so I guess I'll be writing in response to all of y'all in saying I'm going to try to change my behavior a bit. I'll try to be less enthusiastic about love. Or at least, I want to be less enthusiastic about love, to the degree of which you guys are talking about. But how can I even do that? I really feel like my personality is hard-coded.

(P.S. The herpetology community is actually a very nice one; I have met a good deal of people through it, among other hobbies I've listed)

Never fear, Uncle Lefty is here. Lets talk.

- I'm gonna start off by saying this. You say that no one has ever had a crush on you and thats probably false. I don't want you to think Im saying you two are in the same league but the exigence is here: Fuckface Rodgers said the same thing. That no girl liked him and he was forced to be lonely and as a result he had to shoot up the motherfucker. Fact is, Rodgers was good-looking and rich so the reality is if he wanted a girlfriend he could have gotten one. Theres someone out there with low enough self esteem to be willing to put up with his narcissism.

Now back to you. Im gonna assume you're actually a decent person and not a fuck face. The chances of no girl ever having feelings for you are pretty low even in your short adult life. You may not have realized she did. You may not have even met the chick but there has to be at worst one girl but more likely a couple who have had some sort of feelings for you.

So in that sense you do in fact don't have enough confidence, which is actually pretty common at 19. You barely know yourself.

- I respect that you're putting yourself out here and I don't want you to be offended by what I'm going to say but the fact that you said you "pal around for a few hours" with a girl you're trying to ask out leads me to believe that your approach is lacking. Going up to girls cold and talking them into giving you their number or something is pretty challenging for someone in your position and I wouldn't recommend it until your confidence is much higher and you can handle rejection well.

What Satan and a couple of others were saying is not to be less enthusiastic but don't appear desperate. Which could be why your approach is failing. Enthusiasm, when utilized properly is actually a turn on for some women. But thats a topic for another day.

I don't want this shit to start to sound like a PUA forum but theres an art to asking a girl out on a date. Whether she be a friend or stranger. If I knew more about how you go about it, I could help but in general it doesnt sound like your approach is as strong as it could be. If you're a decent guy and your approach is strong you'll get a date eventually. So for the simple reason that you haven't gotten one yet I'm gonna say you're approach isnt as strong as you might think it is.

My advice for you based off of everything I've read thus far, and feel free to respond and disagree as discussion is the goal here:

1. You've got to love, not just like, not just tolerate, not just not hate, but love yourself. Confidence stems from loving the person you are and being completely comfortable in your own skin. Its infectious and people in general are attracted to it. But its especially imperative for females when looking for a partner. Generally speaking, women want a partner who is going to make them feel safe. You can't do that if you're not secure in yourself.
I'm 23 and I just started applying self confidence and a healthy disregard of rejection to my love life a few years ago and its made a HUGE difference. I had it in other parts of my life but I had to translate it to my love life. You might have to do that as you sound like you're involved in a lot of things that probably take some confidence to do like being fluent in another language.
How to get confidence is tricky as some of what I used ties back into my religious beliefs but I'll give you this one tip. I'm a huge wrestling fan, right? And a big part of wrestling is the entrance. Music hits guy comes out to a roaring audience while lights and pyro go off all that jazz. I've always been kind of obsessed with entrances so I have an entire play list on my ipod phone and computer of different music I would use as an entrance. I play it all the time but I play it alot right before its "game time" if you get my drift. Right before a big test, a difficult gig, a busy day at work, etc. It's more than just hype music for me when "The Man" by Aloe Blacc hits I believe every word of that shit, "Beast" By Nico Vega is suddenly about me, etc etc. And it makes a difference for me. I walk in a room feeling I can handle whatever the fuck is coming down the tube and it translates to the rest of my life.

Its a strange strategy but I encourage you to give it a shot. Make a playlist with some songs that should play when you enter a room and internalize that shit. Love who you are because you're the man.

2. Work on your approach. But heres what I want you to do. Take babysteps. Next time you go to the supermarket get in the cute cashier girl's line and chat her up when you check out. Dont ask her out, don't stand there and sweat, don't ask her to sit on your dick, just chat. Try to make her laugh if you can. But just focus on having a conversation. 99% of guys problems with girls stems from the fact that we either view girls as less than or more than human beings. And by just chatting up some cute girls you're gonna start to view girls in a different light and its gonna help your approach. Continue to talk to cute girls who are complete strangers. Once again simply chat be charming be funny if possible and have a good time. Talk to hotter and hotter girls and just get comfortable in the notion that they're people just like you with fears and insecurities just like you. They worry about being alone just like you and all that.

Once you're confident in your ability to chat up a girl it really isnt that huge of a leap to ask her out and do so successfully. Say "Hi" or "How you doing?" or make up a reason to talk to her as long as its not retarded. Make her at least chuckle, a sense of humor is very attractive for both sexes. If you're not terribly funny share a funny story because everyone's got at least one of those. And ask the girl out for coffee or a bite to eat or something. Avoid the word "hang out" because that shit could mean anything from "fuck you while my roomates play video games in the other room." to "Sit awkwardly and say nothing while because you invited your gay friend to come along."

Yes, I've seen both of those things happen.

Put it on the line, don't mumble it, don't follow it up with "or nah" or none of that shit. You have to find your own way of wording it but I usually say something to the effect of "Aye, listen lemme take you out one of these days and lets get something to eat/get some coffee/ see a movie/whatever."

I think coffee dates are a good way to start especially with a stranger because they're very non-committal, they're in a usually populated public area so shes less likely to feel sketched out, and who the fuck don't like starbucks? People who don't even drink coffee go to that shit.

Whatever you ask her out to just internalize this the worst she can do is say "no." Thats fucking it! Just "no." Thats it. And when she says "no." Because someone will say it as you already know don't get pissy. Don't get upset. Laugh it off, smile, and tell her to have a good one anyways. And like ABL said she might even come back later on down the line.

If you get your approach down pat the shit just becomes a numbers game really. Ask 10 girls out with a strong approach and I doubt you'll make it past 4 without a date. Even if you make it past all 10 without a date just remember "numbers game." Just keep asking and some girl probably a cute one will say "yeah."

Thats all I got for you, right now. Also don't call yourself "loveshy esque" That term is dumb and youre not one of those guys. You're just an average guy whos still learning about himself and the world around him.

Any questions hit me up.

 

[Flowers For Sonichu]

I'm a few years older than you so I can show you my wisdom. I did not lose my virginity until a week before my 21st birthday and in college I manged to sleep with someone from every inhabited continent other than Australia. Between the ages of 19-21 I lost 50 pounds. It gets better.

My job involves public speaking, you can put me on stage at Madison Square Garden no problem. Approaching a stranger at a party? HELL NAW. My strategy is to do something to attract them to you.

Here's a tried and true method: buy a box of Franzia, remove the bag from the box, and carry it around with you at all times. Don't like box wine? Tough, this isn't for you to get drunk with, this is for you to share. You immediately become the most popular person at the party and women will approach you instead of the other way around. Perfect opportunity to exchange numbers. People will barter with you things of a dubious nature, etc. Keg party? Keep it hidden until the keg runs out. At that time, you become the single most influential person at the party because you're the only source of booze. I do this whenever I go to a party where I only know a couple people and wind up meeting awesome people all night. Think I'm over-exaggerating? I started doing this after the most attractive woman at a halloween party went home with a very mediocre looking dude dressed up as a functional box of Franzia.

Have a talent? Show it off. Make sure it's an attractive talent. I can put matches out on my tongue, belch on command, and crush beer cans on my head. I do not consider those attractive talents.

Got a crazy story. Tell it loud so people can hear you, take up a lot of space in the room. It gets people engaged and draws them in.

As an alternative: I have a friend who was your stereotypical obese D&D nerd who decorated his apartment with toys much like Chris Chan's room. He was very frustrated much like you and he said to me one day, "You know what? My right hand can do for me what any woman can so what use are they to me?" Next time I met him, he introduced to me his new boyfriend, another sterotypically obese D&D nerd. There's always that route.