Magic and the Occult

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Aleister Crowley

To Mega Therion
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
I can't sleep so I'm going to make a thread about something I brought up on the old forum - magic(k) and the occult. I use the name I do because I have such a fascination with this subject, so I am going to try to make this topic as informative as I can. I want people to come into this with no clue about magic and leave with a basic knowledge and a good idea where to start learning more. If you want to ask questions you can ask here or PM me. I don't care which really, just that you don't mind my sometimes wrong headed thinking. I'm not here to recruit for the OTO or any other magical organization and I might even occasionally tie this into Chris-chan where appropriate, even though this topic is not about him in any way. I know the subject of CWC is to be beaten to death in the other sections of this forum ;) and not here.

Magick is the art of making one's will manifest in ways beyond natural means. That's kind of a ham fisted definition, but for our purposes it fits and I'll elaborate on it as we go. There are different levels of complexity that we find in magical systems and paradigms that give a structure to these systems. A lot of people know about Wicca and think it is your basic witchcraft, which is not exactly the case. European witches had a variety of practices and not very many are exactly in line with what is known as "Wicca". The history of Wicca is pretty much well known and most everyone knows it's about 50 years old. Not exactly an "Old Religione" as some would like to think. I guess "Plagerized Thelema with some vague European Pre-Christian practices" was too long and boring. Most people see how silly it is and how patchwork its' mythos are enough to pass it along in favor of other systems. I should also mention that the thing vaguely referred to as the "New Age" suffers from a lot of the same problems, with it being a dizzying mixture of vague Hinduism and crystal waving crap. Moving on...

The Western Occult tradition is based on ideas from Jewish sources, which most people will tend to call the Kabbalah. The interest in the Kabbalah is in part due to how vast and vague a tradition it is. In it one can find a dizzying array of beliefs and ideas from reincarnation to the notion that YHVH is a ball of light or some strange form of nothingness. Rabbis realisticly understood that this was heavy material and forbade the study of it to anyone under the age of 40. This prohibition lifted, it allowed for people who might not have read books on the subject to do so. The principal work, the Zohar, is one of the books that rose in popularity due to this. This book offers insights to the often confusing parts of the Tanakh or Hebrew Bible. In it we find a mixture of legends and commentary, which add a dimension to Judaism and in some cases, Christianity that few realize exist. It is this aspect that make the Kabbalah a form of forbidden, yet not secret knowledge. It does quite a bit to make certain dogmas change in the eye of the beholder. Some people walk away changed - in both good ways and sometimes not so good ways. Yet, it is the very heart and soul of the West's and Europe's occult traditions and the fruit of the Enlightenment.
 
I do actually find this to be interesting. I have had a lot of friends over the years who were into the occult, witchcraft, LHP, witchcraft and other assorted practices. Hell, I am a Heathen myself, despite not practicing magic. I do have a few books on it though, mostly pertaining to rune work.
 
Surtur said:
I do actually find this to be interesting. I have had a lot of friends over the years who were into the occult, witchcraft, LHP, witchcraft and other assorted practices. Hell, I am a Heathen myself, despite not practicing magic. I do have a few books on it though, mostly pertaining to rune work.
Heathenry is very interesting as a form of neopaganism, but I don't think it's for me at all. I don't know enough to make an accurate assessment, but it's just a gut feeling. I don't have any issues with LHP other than it being very often followed by people who want to seem 'dark' or 'edgy'. Not that I assume you are these things, but many people who are into it are. Maybe you can go into it more or PM me with those juicy details. I promise I won't share anything anyone tells me in confidence ;)


I am going to write a whole lot more...when I get some idea of what to discuss next. I need the inspiration :lol: so we'll see where I go with this. I could talk about the difference between theosophic magic and "goetia" magic. There's a huge difference between the two, even though a lot of people don't know about it. It's found in almost every culture and forms the basis for much organized religion. In short, it's a huge subject in it's own right.
 
NASA performed a magical rite to ensure the success of their space program. From chapter 17 of book 4 of the Abramelin Travelling In The Air:

ANAN NASA ASAN NANA. To fly on a cloud. It's no coincidence that NASA took their name from a spell in this chapter.
 
Aliester Crowley said:
Surtur said:
I do actually find this to be interesting. I have had a lot of friends over the years who were into the occult, witchcraft, LHP, witchcraft and other assorted practices. Hell, I am a Heathen myself, despite not practicing magic. I do have a few books on it though, mostly pertaining to rune work.
Heathenry is very interesting as a form of neopaganism, but I don't think it's for me at all. I don't know enough to make an accurate assessment, but it's just a gut feeling. I don't have any issues with LHP other than it being very often followed by people who want to seem 'dark' or 'edgy'. Not that I assume you are these things, but many people who are into it are. Maybe you can go into it more or PM me with those juicy details. I promise I won't share anything anyone tells me in confidence ;)


I am going to write a whole lot more...when I get some idea of what to discuss next. I need the inspiration :lol: so we'll see where I go with this. I could talk about the difference between theosophic magic and "goetia" magic. There's a huge difference between the two, even though a lot of people don't know about it. It's found in almost every culture and forms the basis for much organized religion. In short, it's a huge subject in it's own right.

I don't think Heathenry is for everyone, but no one religion or spirituality is. I think its a good thing for others to find what works for them. As for LHP, unfortunately for the more serious practitioners they attract the "I want to shock my parents" crowd and that just reinforces stereotypes. The ones I have gotten to know were pretty solid though. On my end we have to deal with the Nazitru idiots, but that's a rant for another day. For me it was a matter of it being a faith that fit me and less of a desire to be edgy. I am too old and cranky for that shit. :P
 
Brother, the Hulkster will tell you this. Your magic and occultism is not match for the awesome power of Hulkamania. Hulkamania is the most powerful force in the universe, brother. You can look up what a gamma ray burst is, which is more energy than all the stars in the galaxy; that is not even a fraction of the power of Hulkamania, man. Hulkamania is powerful enough to lift all 550 lbs of Andre the Giant into the launch position and slam him down into the canvas. Hulkamania is powerful enough to allow the Hulkster to kick out of all 468 lb of the Earthquake slamming down onto him. Your magic is evil, which is no match for the good power of Hulkamania. WHACHA GONNA DO, OCCULTISM, WHEN HULKAMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU?!?!?!?!!
 
Hulk Hogan said:
Brother, the Hulkster will tell you this. Your magic and occultism is not match for the awesome power of Hulkamania. Hulkamania is the most powerful force in the universe, brother. You can look up what a gamma ray burst is, which is more energy than all the stars in the galaxy; that is not even a fraction of the power of Hulkamania, man. Hulkamania is powerful enough to lift all 550 lbs of Andre the Giant into the launch position and slam him down into the canvas. Hulkamania is powerful enough to allow the Hulkster to kick out of all 468 lb of the Earthquake slamming down onto him. Your magic is evil, which is no match for the good power of Hulkamania. WHACHA GONNA DO, OCCULTISM, WHEN HULKAMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU?!?!?!?!!

What about Papa Shango's voodoo magic Hulkster? And why the hell was he so late getting to the ring at Wrestlemania VIII?
 
bungholio said:
Hulk Hogan said:
Brother, the Hulkster will tell you this. Your magic and occultism is not match for the awesome power of Hulkamania. Hulkamania is the most powerful force in the universe, brother. You can look up what a gamma ray burst is, which is more energy than all the stars in the galaxy; that is not even a fraction of the power of Hulkamania, man. Hulkamania is powerful enough to lift all 550 lbs of Andre the Giant into the launch position and slam him down into the canvas. Hulkamania is powerful enough to allow the Hulkster to kick out of all 468 lb of the Earthquake slamming down onto him. Your magic is evil, which is no match for the good power of Hulkamania. WHACHA GONNA DO, OCCULTISM, WHEN HULKAMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU?!?!?!?!!

What about Papa Shango's voodoo magic Hulkster? And why the hell was he so late getting to the ring at Wrestlemania VIII?

Brother, Hulkamania can even overcome Papa Shango's voodoo. The Hulkster heard Papa Shango was too busy trying to think up a voodoo curse that would stop Hulkamania, which would take an eternity to think up.
 
Aliester Crowley said:
I can't sleep so I'm going to make a thread about something I brought up on the old forum - magic(k) and the occult. I use the name I do because I have such a fascination with this subject, so I am going to try to make this topic as informative as I can. I want people to come into this with no clue about magic and leave with a basic knowledge and a good idea where to start learning more. If you want to ask questions you can ask here or PM me. I don't care which really, just that you don't mind my sometimes wrong headed thinking. I'm not here to recruit for the OTO or any other magical organization and I might even occasionally tie this into Our Pet Lolcow where appropriate, even though this topic is not about him in any way. I know the subject of CWC is to be beaten to death in the other sections of this forum ;) and not here.

Magick is the art of making one's will manifest in ways beyond natural means. That's kind of a ham fisted definition, but for our purposes it fits and I'll elaborate on it as we go. There are different levels of complexity that we find in magical systems and paradigms that give a structure to these systems. A lot of people know about Wicca and think it is your basic witchcraft, which is not exactly the case. European witches had a variety of practices and not very many are exactly in line with what is known as "Wicca". The history of Wicca is pretty much well known and most everyone knows it's about 50 years old. Not exactly an "Old Religione" as some would like to think. I guess "Plagerized Thelema with some vague European Pre-Christian practices" was too long and boring. Most people see how silly it is and how patchwork its' mythos are enough to pass it along in favor of other systems. I should also mention that the thing vaguely referred to as the "New Age" suffers from a lot of the same problems, with it being a dizzying mixture of vague Hinduism and crystal waving crap. Moving on...

The Western Occult tradition is based on ideas from Jewish sources, which most people will tend to call the Kabbalah. The interest in the Kabbalah is in part due to how vast and vague a tradition it is. In it one can find a dizzying array of beliefs and ideas from reincarnation to the notion that YHVH is a ball of light or some strange form of nothingness. Rabbis realisticly understood that this was heavy material and forbade the study of it to anyone under the age of 40. This prohibition lifted, it allowed for people who might not have read books on the subject to do so. The principal work, the Zohar, is one of the books that rose in popularity due to this. This book offers insights to the often confusing parts of the Tanakh or Hebrew Bible. In it we find a mixture of legends and commentary, which add a dimension to Judaism and in some cases, Christianity that few realize exist. It is this aspect that make the Kabbalah a form of forbidden, yet not secret knowledge. It does quite a bit to make certain dogmas change in the eye of the beholder. Some people walk away changed - in both good ways and sometimes not so good ways. Yet, it is the very heart and soul of the West's and Europe's occult traditions and the fruit of the Enlightenment.


For some reason... I don't seem to understand any of the explanations about Kabbalah and how it can be used for witchcraft and stuff like that. Mind giving your own version of an explanation?
 
The Kabbalah has always confused me. If I even attempt to read about it, my brain automatically shuts down due to how ESOTERIC it is. Hell, even alchemy is more comprehensible than the Kabbalah (imo).
 
Dark Mirror Hole said:
The Kabbalah has always confused me. If I even attempt to read about it, my brain automatically shuts down due to how ESOTERIC it is. Hell, even alchemy is more comprehensible than the Kabbalah (imo).
Gotta admit, I've had trouble studying the Kabbalah too... because it's just so complex. You have the tree of life, Hebrew numerology... even reading The Chicken Qabalah, I'm still scratching my head about the Qabalah.
 
93Aiwass said:
Dark Mirror Hole said:
The Kabbalah has always confused me. If I even attempt to read about it, my brain automatically shuts down due to how ESOTERIC it is. Hell, even alchemy is more comprehensible than the Kabbalah (imo).
Gotta admit, I've had trouble studying the Kabbalah too... because it's just so complex. You have the tree of life, Hebrew numerology... even reading The Chicken Qabalah, I'm still scratching my head about the Qabalah.

Yeah. Any of you guys here could help us digest whatever the Kabbalah is all about?
 
It's probably why it was originally meant only to be studied by those over 40 I think. My books on runes reference a bit of Crowleys works, though its mostly for comparison.
 
What all are you trying to figure out about kabbalah? It's based loosely on zoroastrian beliefs which relate to old assyrian stuff (Marduk etc).
They also adapted a lot of aspects of norse/teutonic religion which was probably picked up through trade with the north (Tree of Life etc).
I'm not an expert by any means, but I know a few things.
 
shutupman said:
What all are you trying to figure out about kabbalah? It's based loosely on zoroastrian beliefs which relate to old assyrian stuff (Marduk etc).
They also adapted a lot of aspects of norse/teutonic religion which was probably picked up through trade with the north (Tree of Life etc).
I'm not an expert by any means, but I know a few things.

Anything. Though on my part, how would it be used as a form of magic or something? I actually RP at a fandom board that has a "mystical" setting in the modern world. Where all types of magic disciplines are viable forms of magic for magi-type characters. So since Kabbalah is one of them, I just want to understand how that works and all.
 
I was about to say it's more mystical than magical! It's a set of rituals set to appease minor deities in order to win their favour.
It's pretty much proto-judaism that was designed to help win over the mystics/priests of the time, while introducing the concept of a single God.
The minor deities are seen as angels and demons in Judeo-Christian texts, and often have the same names, and perform the same functions.
There's also a huge part dedicated to nature, but that's about all I know on that front - need to read more texts on the nature based religion aspects of kaballah.
Today, it amounts to little more than meditation and expanding on accepted judaic texts.

=edit=
There are "spells" and stuff, but it's really hard to find anything written about it.
 
shutupman said:
I was about to say it's more mystical than magical! It's a set of rituals set to appease minor deities in order to win their favour.
It's pretty much proto-judaism that was designed to help win over the mystics/priests of the time, while introducing the concept of a single God.
The minor deities are seen as angels and demons in Judeo-Christian texts, and often have the same names, and perform the same functions.
There's also a huge part dedicated to nature, but that's about all I know on that front - need to read more texts on the nature based religion aspects of kaballah.
Today, it amounts to little more than meditation and expanding on accepted judaic texts.

=edit=
There are "spells" and stuff, but it's really hard to find anything written about it.
Kabbalah is akin to the yogic disciplines of India. It functions to give structure to the other more advanced practices and allows for a person to develop their spiritual knowledge, which often includes magick.

Sepher Yetzirah and the Zohar are good starting places, not books on "kabbalah".
 
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