Magic The Gathering

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and if all else fails pull a GW and just outsource the IP to the highest bidder to keep at least the name and passively get fees this way
See, this is why the whole integration of other IPs into Magic never made sense to me. The more you pimp it out internally, the less the IP itself matters, and I don't think it will be easy to license out the Magic identity now as it's been so diluted. They pretty much did the hardest part first, creating a brand that has cultural relevance, and then brought any IP they could to dilute that aspect.

you'd also have to consider who they could sell it too, hasbro probably wants a nice sum for the whole package, even if there might be companies interest in one or the other, but not all of it.
There are probably several groups that would want to buy out certain IPs and maybe even the whole company and then just part it out. The main reason we probably won't see that happen soon, is because a lot of those groups probably think there's more room to fall for what's essentially a luxury brand in a recession, while that same luxury brand is being retarded.
 
Guys, please stop being dumb.

It was just earlier this year that a group of investors tried to break off WotC from Hasbro citing Hasbro's mismanagement of the brand. Hasbro fought them off as hard as they could. Why? Because Magic is still profitable. Hasbro is not going to let MtG or WotC go just because Magic was slightly less obscenely profitable this quarter than it was last quarter. WotC may have no idea what the fuck they're doing, but both Magic and D&D have remained successful in spite of WotC's efforts to destroy the brand.

You also have to keep in mind that the US economy is in a prolonged recession, and consumer spending on luxuries is down across the board. Don't read too deeply into signs of supposed trouble that likely beyond the control of Hasbro or WotC.
 
Guys, please stop being dumb.

It was just earlier this year that a group of investors tried to break off WotC from Hasbro citing Hasbro's mismanagement of the brand. Hasbro fought them off as hard as they could. Why? Because Magic is still profitable. Hasbro is not going to let MtG or WotC go just because Magic was slightly less obscenely profitable this quarter than it was last quarter. WotC may have no idea what the fuck they're doing, but both Magic and D&D have remained successful in spite of WotC's efforts to destroy the brand.

You also have to keep in mind that the US economy is in a prolonged recession, and consumer spending on luxuries is down across the board. Don't read too deeply into signs of supposed trouble that likely beyond the control of Hasbro or WotC.
All that is entirely true.

All that was also before 30th edition.

That's what the whole "thermoclime of trust" is about. Things are fine... until they aren't.
The Trust Thermocline is something that, over (many) years of digital, I have seen both digital and regular content publishers hit time and time again. Despite warnings (at least when I’ve worked there). And it has a similar effect. You have lots of users then suddenly… nope.

And this does effect print publications as much as trendy digital media companies. They’ll be flying along making loads of money, with lots of users/readers, rolling out new products that get bought. Or events. Or Sub-brands.

And then SUDDENLY those people just abandon them.
 
Most of us in the thread know magic isn’t going to just die and that hasbro will probably take this and try milking more money out of the two biggest IPs they own until it’s a full year of negative reports. We might even get some quality magic products and content between now and then. But we all take issue with how hasbro and WOTC are doing things and the general player base doesn’t care because they still get new magic cards that are better than the ones they already have.

Maybe we’re being dumb, but this is a forum on a website known for showing off the dumbest things out there, and you have to admit, pointing and laughing about WOTC falling further and further into ruin is kinda hilarious
 
See, this is why the whole integration of other IPs into Magic never made sense to me. The more you pimp it out internally, the less the IP itself matters, and I don't think it will be easy to license out the Magic identity now as it's been so diluted. They pretty much did the hardest part first, creating a brand that has cultural relevance, and then brought any IP they could to dilute that aspect.
Nobody gave a rats ass about the IP even when it was good, it was a thing that everyone knew existed but like Hall of Fame level players know exactly nothing about any of the lore beyond the name of places and a few major characters, The lore was never really relevant to 99% of the playerbase.
 
Nobody gave a rats ass about the IP even when it was good, it was a thing that everyone knew existed but like Hall of Fame level players know exactly nothing about any of the lore beyond the name of places and a few major characters, The lore was never really relevant to 99% of the playerbase.
When I say the IP, I'm not necessarily referring to the lore, although it's a part of the IP, the overall IP is Magic: the Gathering itself. Hell, while I liked the old lore, leading up to Apocalypse, and some of of the stuff after it, I personally couldn't care less about Jace, Chandra, and whatever.

Or let's put it this way, if someone buys the IP to something like Spiderman, they get the cultural idea of Spiderman and not specifically the Andrew Garfield Spiderman movie lore, simply because that was the last Spiderman movie made prior to Marvel buying it. So you could toss out the lore and make new lore for all it mattered, as you'd hold the brand name, game, and cultural touchstones like the concept of a "Black Lotus" as well as the title of the first TCG/CCG.
 
Jesus Christ.

I've been getting some MTG videos popping up on my YT recommendations lately and poked my head into this thread.

One thing I used to absolutely love about MTG was the artwork.

Richard Kane Ferguson, Todd Lockwood, Kev Walker, Adrian Smith, Quinton Hoover, Anson Maddocks, Rebecca Guay, Phil Foglio, Harold McNeil. All had distinctive styles that were really imaginative and made the cards feel really different and, dare I say it, diverse.

This stuff posted on this page looks like refried dogshit. I didn't like everything from the artists I mentioned above (the Foglios, in particular, were pretty hit or miss for me) but there was a lot of variety in visual style.

Shame.
Maybe I'm just a nostalgic Magic simp, but I honestly think the art is still one of the main things going for them. Double Masters had an amazing assembly of artists, the full art Chaos Warp and Smothering Tithes look amazing. Some of the stained glass Dominaria cards are gorgeous in person, Baldur's gate had some really cool art too (how can you not like Displacer Kitten). BRO is okay, the people I know heavy into Transformers love the cracked glass art and, having played against it last week, it does look pretty great in person. I am not a fan of Universes Beyond in general, but the Warhammer cards also look great. Just my 2c.
 
When I say the IP, I'm not necessarily referring to the lore, although it's a part of the IP, the overall IP is Magic: the Gathering itself. Hell, while I liked the old lore, leading up to Apocalypse, and some of of the stuff after it, I personally couldn't care less about Jace, Chandra, and whatever.

Or let's put it this way, if someone buys the IP to something like Spiderman, they get the cultural idea of Spiderman and not specifically the Andrew Garfield Spiderman movie lore, simply because that was the last Spiderman movie made prior to Marvel buying it. So you could toss out the lore and make new lore for all it mattered, as you'd hold the brand name, game, and cultural touchstones like the concept of a "Black Lotus" as well as the title of the first TCG/CCG.
But all of that was in the Trash anyways.

Because of the Reserve list "Black Lotus" Doesn't matter at all
They "Reworked" sets and turned Standard into complete shit for years
Then they "Reworked" the Pro tour system and basically killed the entire path from "Amateur" to "Pro"
Then they outright abandoned Paper magic by chasing Hearthstone's "ESPORRRRTSSS" shit even before Covid happened

Magic as an IP hasn't actually mattered in over a decade.
 
The one thing that blows my mind is how you can have most likely $500 000 of unsold product add to your business value and I don't think even depreciate it. The report said $300 000 was added to unsold inventory. I can see why large investors are running because that is fucking insane. From what I know Amazon takes a bunch before that too and Amazon fire sales of their MTG stuff every few weeks.

They have put themselves in a really awkward position now as they have to essentially double their loss in profit in Q4 to be deemed safe by investors. But that when so many turn on you is difficult.

So many people in financial / trader roles have said for years to stop producing too many SKUs of releases, there is easily over 100 a year now including Secret Lair and from a player and investor standpoint looks money-grubbing but it waters down the impact of each release.

I am glad the Raksin34 guy is getting spat out, he deserved it. He signed a contract for the money not knowing how much it insulted the player base and the fact they are selling fake cards for $1100 (with tax). He fucked around and found out, my initial post was somewhat reactionary but I think after learning about the inventory issues and the delisting, some assets on WOTC's portfolio are going to get sold. Being down so much in the start of a recession is not a good sign, well down so hard. It shows you have to really minimize print runs and release fewer products.

I know from a Euro perspective that distributors and LGS's are really scaling back on MTG and going to other games like Flesh and Blood, Pokemon and Yu gi oh because those companies lowered their print run meaning they account for how much is bought. That is true too if I have looked for products of the mentioned they are the same price but just harder to find but that is good because they have taken account for future issues like less players.

I don't think WOTC has learned a single lesson in this though.
 
Looks like the 30th Anniversary Edition sold out in about 35 minutes. Who knows if they're doing some shenanigans though.

This guy claims it was pulled, but he also has a BLM banner in his profile so he's retarded:
1669657636766.png

But something interesting someone pointed out, the official account does not say they "sold out" but rather that they concluded it:
1669657750738.png

I tried to see how they worded it in the past, but doesn't look like they've made such announcements in the past on Twitter, closest I could find was the 30th Countdown Secret Lair where they tell people to buy before it sells out:
1669658539229.png

But all of that was in the Trash anyways.

Because of the Reserve list "Black Lotus" Doesn't matter at all
They "Reworked" sets and turned Standard into complete shit for years
Then they "Reworked" the Pro tour system and basically killed the entire path from "Amateur" to "Pro"
Then they outright abandoned Paper magic by chasing Hearthstone's "ESPORRRRTSSS" shit even before Covid happened

Magic as an IP hasn't actually mattered in over a decade.
You're not wrong, but I don't think it's as dire or irrecoverable as you're making it out to be.

The one thing that blows my mind is how you can have most likely $500 000 of unsold product add to your business value and I don't think even depreciate it. The report said $300 000 was added to unsold inventory. I can see why large investors are running because that is fucking insane. From what I know Amazon takes a bunch before that too and Amazon fire sales of their MTG stuff every few weeks.
That's also probably their price to distribution, not what a store would sell it for, and if that's the case that number accounts for way more unsold product than it may first seem.
 
You're not wrong, but I don't think it's as dire or irrecoverable as you're making it out to be.
I mean Standard was pretty bad for like 5 years before UB happened, like Once Tarkir Rotated out things were awful the entire way till Dominaria came out and then Caught Cancer Aids the moment War hit until...basically now.
 
I mean Standard was pretty bad for like 5 years before UB happened, like Once Tarkir Rotated out things were awful the entire way till Dominaria came out and then Caught Cancer Aids the moment War hit until...basically now.
I've dipped in and out of Standard with Arena and it was pretty bad, but once they banned a few things it wasn't too terrible until the next set came out and fucked the whole game. The introduction of Alchemy was also pants on head retarded, but I think despite all that if they ended up with better leadership and less product bloat, they could turn things around.


So, 1k proxy bundles stopped being sold ~35 minutes in, and people tweet Greed at WotC account.
We don't really know, maybe it just did sell out that quickly, but I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled it after 30 minutes and then played it off as "30 minutes for 30th Anniversary". Something people were pointing out when it first went live, there was about a ten-fifteen minute queue line as people were just jumping in to see if there was a line but not actually buying, then for the last twenty or so minutes the queue was instant or at most a minute. Some guy was jumping in it just to test it in a live stream, so I can't imagine there were that many people in line, seeing as normally their site goes down.
 
I've dipped in and out of Standard with Arena and it was pretty bad, but once they banned a few things it wasn't too terrible until the next set came out and fucked the whole game. The introduction of Alchemy was also pants on head retarded, but I think despite all that if they ended up with better leadership and less product bloat, they could turn things around.
The problem is there were lots of things that probably should have been banned that never were until way too late, Chariot and Goldspan can go get fucked, Alrund's Epiphany would never have become a problem without Goldspan powering it and Chariot just kind of proves that any vehicle that doesn't outright suck ass is just going to end up being miserable to actually play against.
 
So can someone tell Me what happened today with the big sale for the 30th Anniversary booster packs that went live today? Alot of people seem upset.

I wasn't following it today. Legit question.
 
So can someone tell Me what happened today with the big sale for the 30th Anniversary booster packs that went live today? Alot of people seem upset.

I wasn't following it today. Legit question.
They stopped sales after 35 minutes.
 
How long do we want to bet it will be before people are posting listings on eBay hoping to recoup what they put in, only to discover this isn’t a product anyone actually wants? Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a few up already…

Just checked and they’re averaging $1,999 + shipping. Fucking Christ.
 
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