Magic The Gathering

[Retink Retunk]

Literally just called PreModern

I thought PreModern was the format they attempted before Modern was even a thing and it went up through the original Ravnica as I remember Grave Troll was on the ban list?

 

[BallsMcLongDong]

I thought PreModern was the format they attempted before Modern was even a thing and it went up through the original Ravnica as I remember Grave Troll was on the ban list?

That was type 1-Type 2.
PreModern is the community created format about 10 years old. It's 4th to Scourge.
Middle School is alpha to Scourge with a hefty ban list. Mind Twist never stops being good no matter what year it is.

 

[Retink Retunk]

That was type 1-Type 2.
PreModern is the community created format about 10 years old. It's 4th to Scourge.
Middle School is alpha to Scourge with a hefty ban list. Mind Twist never stops being good no matter what year it is.

Type 1 was Vintage and Type 2 was Standard back then. Pre-Modern was a community format, but I could have sworn it was up to Ravnica and then Wizards announced a Modern format that was very boom bust for a long time.

It would be interesting to see an old frame format with the allowance of cards printed with the old frame in specialty products if they can moderate it properly. Noble Hierarch and Chalice of the Void is probably an interesting bit of design space that's not too strong.

 

[BallsMcLongDong]

Type 1 was Vintage and Type 2 was Standard back then. Pre-Modern was a community format, but I could have sworn it was up to Ravnica and then Wizards announced a Modern format that was very boom bust for a long time.

It would be interesting to see an old frame format with the allowance of cards printed with the old frame in specialty products if they can moderate it properly. Noble Hierarch and Chalice of the Void is probably an interesting bit of design space that's not too strong.

There are those as well, but they don't have a fancy name yet. Mostly just, "Hey, can I use old frame Garth as my commander for my elder Dragon Highlander deck?" "Yeah sure, why not."

 

[Flexo]

I keep aiming to trim down my magic collection but keep getting delayed. I have a handful of old cards that have made their way into my hands - I'd almost rather sell them to some of you pre-modern cavemen than a shop. (much love to you, I am old enough to be one of you)

 

[Flexo]

I don't really intend for this post to shit on @Rich Evans Ayypologist (I like him in other threads) but it seems like WotC has specifically made an effort to spite him. Like recently the discussion on tokens and player aids?


Yes! Now you have tokens (enchantments?) with very specific game effects. So it's not just "toss a penny" onto a creature - now you've got to try and keep track on whether the penny makes the creature a 1/1 or the nickel is making it a +1/+1 with scry 1. (I wonder if these will be aura in addition to role or not.)

Oh wait! We can't forget wicked!


Looks like they are auras.

Not that I entirely object to enchantment tokens (especially as I'm building an aura commander deck) but it really puts to lie the idea that "oh you can just use anything" to be this. You're going to really need those token cards just to minimize possible cheating in pro tours at the bare minimum.

Also "casualty" is apparently coming back again as "bargain."

For someone just starting the format, yes, you need someone to help you figure out what singles to buy, but so many of these cards (no longer playable in retarded "I'm definitely not CEDH, I just have all the fast mana and vamp/dem tutor") are cheaper than they've ever been, to absolutely ridiculous degrees. It's fuckin' Christmas to someone like me, even if the game stores both have heavy bags from this set itself and will have to sit on some of the singles that have just absolutely tanked.

But that's the thing - newbies really need to build a pool of cards and get experience exploring things and developing decks. Part of that is buying packs and looking at the cards in them and going "oh this looks like fun! I want to maximize this one! What cards do I have that can do that..." Just having a kenobi around to go "here buy this, this and this" doesn't help them grow as a player. Newbies need packs more than veterans and pricing the packs out of their range doesn't help them.


I do admit I love this Green Knight flavor.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I do admit I love this Green Knight flavor.

I fucking hate this card already in terms of how annoying and powerful it will probably be.

 

[derpherp2]

At this point they're going to try to put an entire book at the flavor text box to define specifically which token you ram into your ass to activate fifteen different mechanics at five different games from eight different companies at 12 different days for 20 different seconds.

Just for a +1/+1

I fucking hate this card already in terms of how annoying and powerful it will probably be.

A lot of OG adventure cards are nice, especially the wish one with it's own recursion and bounce.

iirc that Knight card already had a 1CMC version in the old eldaine set. It was neat, but this was post faithless looting so I moved away from card draw advantage graveyard fuckfest.
And the only color I don't play fully in a deck is green so uhh.

 

[Flexo]

I fucking hate this card already in terms of how annoying and powerful it will probably be.

Oh my korvold aristocrats deck is already salivating over it. It will probably be a B/G commander staple pretty quick.

I'm starting to think Eldraine 2: electric boogaloo will break the format as bad as eldraine 1 did.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

A lot of OG adventure cards are nice, especially the wish one with it's own recursion and bounce.

I hate Adventure as a mechanic, If both sides are good (like Brazen Borrower) you have an obnoxiously powerful card, the mechanic is one of the reasons that The Standards with Eldraine were miserable garbage.

iirc that Knight card already had a 1CMC version in the old eldaine set

The Eldraine 1 version of the card was far worse than this thing, the Adventure side costs 1 more (even if it is instant) but the front side is basically unplayable. This new version has all the Hallmarks of "A fucking miserable mess for 3 years" because it is a Cheap Threat (This costs the same as Tenacious Underdog and has trample so you can't Chump it unless you have a big body) that grants card advantage..and is Hard to permanently remove.

And unlike Underdog..you don't have to pay all 4 mana in one turn to return it, and you can Draw the card before you have to invest 4 mana so you can exile it to draw a card..and if you get a better play you can cast that.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

Yes! Now you have tokens (enchantments?) with very specific game effects.

I hate these slightly less, because at least the effect is printed on the card that grants it. So if I need to reference what the role does, then I can look at the card that granted it. Of course, it still has pitfalls - if two cards grant a role, now I have to remember which one is the most 'recent' one that I am representing with a penny.

Obviously with the role token cards this is trivial, but so are dungeons; what I moreso mean is that dungeon / initiative in particular are just... impossible to explain when you're looking at a card whose textbox is "on etb, you take the initiative"

Part of that is buying packs

See, I disagree with that, because that's a terrible way to spend money. I got started with a precon, and then I drafted because I liked the idea of limited. For a new player who wants to play commander, if they don't want a precon, I would much sooner intervene and make them a budget list for $30. Because you could spend $30 on packs, sure, and what do you get? Absolutely fucking nothing.
Even in that avenue, Commander Masters beats out other packs. If you could spend $30 on commander masters or $30 on lord of the things, which one is going to give you better cards to make a casual commander deck? (Let's pretend the $20-30 commander precons don't exist in this universe) Yeah, you'll have more cards from lord of the things byfar, but the stuff in the masters product -at common - is insane. Again, though, I would just point them away from buying $30 of packs period - when eternal witness and kodama's reach about fifty cents, there's not a sealed product in the world that can offer a better price-point than having someone personally curate a budget list for you.

 

[Flexo]

because at least the effect is printed on the card that grants it.

Not always.

if two cards grant a role, now I have to remember which one is the most 'recent' one that I am representing with a penny.

This is also why I'm not as big of a fan of this or dungeons. I mean they are fun to an extent, but they enable cheating way too easily in tournament situations. "Oh no that penny is for [role]. You are mistaken about other [role] it represents."

Obviously with the role token cards this is trivial, but so are dungeons; what I moreso mean is that dungeon / initiative in particular are just... impossible to explain when you're looking at a card whose textbox is "on etb, you take the initiative"

Kind of like "get a wicked role token" above, eh?

Again, though, I would just point them away from buying $30 of packs period - when eternal witness and kodama's reach about fifty cents, there's not a sealed product in the world that can offer a better price-point than having someone personally curate a budget list for you.

This is why I'm like... you haven't dealt with a newbie or gotten someone into the game for a long time have you? It's a better price-point to cook for yourself than hit up fast food too - but people do the latter all the time don't they? It's a similar mentality and packs are part of the appeal of the game.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

Not always.

Fuck me that's terrible then - another stupid mechanic clearly designed with the Arena client in mind.

And treasures again? Jesus christ, did they not fucking learn

but they enable cheating way too easily in tournament situations.

And specifically small tournaments. At big, large tournaments this kind of behavior won't fly, and the games are anyways recorded so they can review the footage to find out. A smaller tournament, though? Yeah, rife for abuse. But when was the last time WOTC thought about smaller game stores?

you haven't dealt with a newbie or gotten someone into the game for a long time have you? It's a better price-point to cook for yourself than hit up fast food too - but people do the latter all the time don't they?

I know they want to, but when I get new people into the game, I tell them that packs are lottery tickets - if you want to gamble, go ahead. But otherwise, I offer to build decks (or point people to budget brews) for anyone I get into it. Generally-new people I'll try to steer towards that as well. But, yeah, if I could get a new commander player two packs of LOTR or one of CM, it's gonna be CM. Arcane Signet is at like, common.

 

[Flexo]

And specifically small tournaments. At big, large tournaments this kind of behavior won't fly, and the games are anyways recorded so they can review the footage to find out. A smaller tournament, though? Yeah, rife for abuse. But when was the last time WOTC thought about smaller game stores?

I do love watching cheater caught vids.

Considering some of those moves "pros" will try while on camera I can just imagine how bad it would be in some local shops.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

The Eldraine 1 version of the card was far worse than this thing, the Adventure side costs 1 more (even if it is instant) but the front side is basically unplayable. This new version has all the Hallmarks of "A fucking miserable mess for 3 years" because it is a Cheap Threat (This costs the same as Tenacious Underdog and has trample so you can't Chump it unless you have a big body) that grants card advantage..and is Hard to permanently remove.

And unlike Underdog..you don't have to pay all 4 mana in one turn to return it, and you can Draw the card before you have to invest 4 mana so you can exile it to draw a card..and if you get a better play you can cast that.

It's pretty hard for me to evaluate it vs. Underdog, but I generally think it's worse. Underdog doesn't commit you to pay 2 mana to recur half of it on the next turn and can't really be effectively counterspelled except for by those that exile. The haste on blitz is also a really big deal because he goes back to the graveyard and dodges sorcery speed creature removal. Underdog also is great in any shell that can discard cards for value or has self mill where this creature needs another card to get out of the graveyard because he can only recur himself when he goes to the graveyard from play. They both get shit on by graveyard hate although the green knight can at least be held in "reserve" in exile if you have something better to do with 2 mana. Also being able to cast him as a cantrip first to try to hit a 3rd land is neat.

 

[Flexo]

Eldraine articles posted today.

MaRo:

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/wilds-story-part-1

The idea of a Role was that a creature could take on a specific title that would tap into a trope from fairy tales. For example, your creature could become a Princess or a Beast. Doing so meant that they gained a certain line of rules text. We explored various ways to do this. Maybe it'd be a label, a counter, or an emblem. In the end, the idea we liked best was that Roles were Aura tokens.

We make creature tokens every set and have started making a lot more artifact tokens. We've even made a few enchantment tokens, but far less frequently. Auras did a great job of capturing the feel and mechanical execution we liked. Enchantments have answers and can synergize with other cards. At the handoff, we had ten Roles: Princess, Young Hero, Beast, Wicked, Frog, Animated, Knight, Faerie, Wizard, and Woodsman.

Set Design would whittle the list from ten to six (seven if you count the Virtuous Role token from Wilds of Eldraine Commander). The names of four of the six would change. Princess became Royal, Beast became Monster, Frog became Cursed, Wizard became Sorcerer, and Young Hero and Wicked kept their names. I'll talk a little more next week about how Roles were adapted in set design. Here's the final list: Royal, Young Hero, Monster, Sorcerer, Wicked, and Cursed.

So 7 officially for standard, with an 8th one going to eternal.

Mechanics article itself:

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/wilds-of-eldraine-mechanics

In this grand tale, we all have our roles to play. Role tokens are seven new predefined tokens, each one an Aura with enchant creature. Six of them are created by cards in the main set. One card in the Commander decks adds the seventh. The bonuses (or drawbacks, in one case) each Role gives are as follows:

• Cursed — Enchanted creature has base power and toughness 1/1.
• Monster — Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has trample.
• Royal — Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has ward {1}.
• Sorcerer — Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has "Whenever this creature attacks, scry 1."
• Wicked — Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and "When this Aura is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, each opponent loses 1 life."
• Young Hero — Enchanted creature has "Whenever this creature attacks, if its toughness is 3 or less, put a +1/+1 counter on it."
• (Commander) Virtuous — Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 for each enchantment you control.

Want to see what it looks like?


Also zoophiles now confirmed for the set.


EDIT! Oh I almost forgot. From MaRo's article on the ten color pairings:

• White-Blue: The Snow Queen
• Blue-Black: Sleeping Beauty
• Black-Red: Pied Piper
• Red-Green: Little Red Riding Hood
• Green-White: Beauty and the Beast
• White-Black: Snow White
• Blue-Red: The Sorcerer's Apprentice
• Black-Green: Hansel and Gretel
• Red-White: Cinderella
• Green-Blue: Jack and the Beanstalk

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Also zoophiles now confirmed for the set.

On brand for Eldraine, they love fucking animals there.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

It's pretty hard for me to evaluate it vs. Underdog, but I generally think it's worse. Underdog doesn't commit you to pay 2 mana to recur half of it on the next turn

But Underdog forces you to Commit 4 mana every turn.

The haste on blitz is also a really big deal because he goes back to the graveyard and dodges sorcery speed creature removal.

I mean it dodges sorcery speed removal because it sacrifices itself, Knight kind of eventually has to have removal used on it because it doesn't self destruct.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

But Underdog forces you to Commit 4 mana every turn.

No it doesn't, it has the threat of activation every turn. If you have 4 mana untapped, dead underdog and draw Shelly you can cast Shelly instead and lose nothing, if you have 4 mana and a dead knight and draw Shelly you still have the use it or lose it effect and have to choose.

I mean it dodges sorcery speed removal because it sacrifices itself, Knight kind of eventually has to have removal used on it because it doesn't self destruct.

Which is a feature because people hate throwing removal at Underdog because unless it's exiled they 1 for 1 themselves and gain nothing, removing Knight with a non-exile is still a tempo play that also commits you to pay 2/4 to play it again or lose it.

 

[Inafune Fanfiction]

Fuck me that's terrible then - another stupid mechanic clearly designed with the Arena client in mind.

And treasures again? Jesus christ, did they not fucking learn

And specifically small tournaments. At big, large tournaments this kind of behavior won't fly, and the games are anyways recorded so they can review the footage to find out. A smaller tournament, though? Yeah, rife for abuse. But when was the last time WOTC thought about smaller game stores?

I know they want to, but when I get new people into the game, I tell them that packs are lottery tickets - if you want to gamble, go ahead. But otherwise, I offer to build decks (or point people to budget brews) for anyone I get into it. Generally-new people I'll try to steer towards that as well. But, yeah, if I could get a new commander player two packs of LOTR or one of CM, it's gonna be CM. Arcane Signet is at like, common.

Budget decks are really easy and fun to make. You'd be surprised at what you can make with a small budget.
I still don't quite understand how Cascade works. So a creature is summoned, then we get to summon a creature with a smaller mana cost for free and shuffle the deck?

Most of the current sets are overpriced garbage and outright downgrades. Who the hell thought it was a great idea to remove Elesh Norn's "-2/-2 to all creatures your opponents control and +2/+2 to all creatures you control"? No shit they lost. They got nerfed for some capeshit bullshit.