Magic The Gathering

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
I disagree, there are alot of strong cards that won't see play because Standard is so large that it's a turn 3 format now, you can claim it's cause of "Muh power creep" but the Cori Steel Cutter deck is half Old spells a card that is rotating (and should have a long time ago) and a card that SHOULD be rotating this fall but aren't because WOTC are too fucking retarded to keep Standard Standard and turned it into Modern from 10 years ago.

There are cards who in 2 year Standard would be easily playable..which are also cards that if you went back to Core, Large, Small, Small or Large, Small, Large. Small would be the best cards in the format and it wouldn't be close.
Click to expand...
I mean, you say that you disagree with me and then you agree with me later in the sentience. Good cards tribal is going to continue.


Only main deck things rotating out are Switfspear and Shivan Reef

8 pain lands

Swiftspear

Lockdown

1 go for the throat, 5 pain lands

4 moment of truth, 3 pain lands

Zur himself and 1 uncommon removal (also no Atraxa to fall back on for alternate win cons)

The fact that rotation does fucking nothing looks to me like these cards are much, much better then the older cards Dominaria-Aftermath.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
I disagree, there are alot of strong cards that won't see play because Standard is so large that it's a turn 3 format now, you can claim it's cause of "Muh power creep" but the Cori Steel Cutter deck is half Old spells a card that is rotating (and should have a long time ago) and a card that SHOULD be rotating this fall but aren't because WOTC are too fucking retarded to keep Standard Standard and turned it into Modern from 10 years ago.

There are cards who in 2 year Standard would be easily playable..which are also cards that if you went back to Core, Large, Small, Small or Large, Small, Large. Small would be the best cards in the format and it wouldn't be close.
Click to expand...
Reprint lightning bolt
 
Oddjob OTP said:
I mean, you say that you disagree with me and then you agree with me later in the sentience. Good cards tribal is going to continue.
Click to expand...
I disagree about the why and I don't think it has to do with direct power creep.

I do not think that Cori Steelcutter is all that much stronger than Monastery Mentor as cards, but being an artifact means it dodges board wipes.

The fact that rotation does fucking nothing looks to me like these cards are much, much better then the older cards Dominaria-Aftermath.
Click to expand...
Yes and my entire fucking point is that the new rotation utterly fucked the powerlevel of the format and is actively keeping cards out by making the floor of the format much higher than it used to be by sheer card quantity.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Yes and my entire fucking point is that the new rotation utterly fucked the powerlevel of the format and is actively keeping cards out by making the floor of the format much higher than it used to be by sheer card quantity.
Click to expand...
If you want to state that as "they are making better cards to keep churning the format at the same time they are claiming to make it slower and less vulnerable to rotation" I will agree with you. Or that they "don't know what they are doing because they didn't make half of these sets with Big Gay Standard in mind." But it's not a higher powered format because of the size of the format itself, all the cards no one is playing in the oldest 4.5 sets and lol Murders is evidence of that.

Every standard set is pushed for modern tribal tied together by draft uncommons they pushed for draft forgetting that just because a card has a silver or black symbol doesn't make it unplayable outside of draft. And occasionally some pushed for commander cards like Jeskai dragon.
 
Oddjob OTP said:
a higher powered format because of the size of the format itself, all the cards no one is playing in the oldest 4.5 sets and lol Murders is evidence of that.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? The top deck cards from across the pool and is a mix of new cards and reprints.

The overlord deck is held up by beans, leyline binding and zur.

Larger card pools most certainly affect the power of the format, when your card pool is 3,600 you arent digging for playables like you are if the cardpool is 1,800 like it used to be.

Back before they started to do stupid shit you would have to fill out your deck with some jank.

I would like to remind everyone that a deck with Ob Nix reignited and Sorin, Grim Nemesis won a pro tour once upon a time because it used to be that card pools were so bad a 6 mana planeswalker was viable.

If Eldritch Moon Standard were 3 years people would still have been Rhinoing.

Edit : Murders failed because its main mechanics were Morph(which has never been good outside of astral side cheating morph costs) and Clues which arent really viable if you have good card advantage.
 
Flexo said:
I... what?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=KGSqNnoNtHo
Click to expand...
He talks about exploring with the Highwind and having to puzzle out how to reach Round Island, since the Highwind cannot land there. It's a little dramatic to to say "this was before the Internet and you could just look stuff up". I had the Prima strategy guide a month or two before the US release that December and I read every page waiting for it.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
What are you talking about? The top deck cards from across the pool and is a mix of new cards and reprints.

The overlord deck is held up by beans, leyline binding and zur.

Larger card pools most certainly affect the power of the format, when your card pool is 3,600 you arent digging for playables like you are if the cardpool is 1,800 like it used to be.
Click to expand...
Again: Zur is the only deck of those, the top 7 decks that plays anything of note from the 4.5 sets rotating out other than pain lands or swiftspear. And Domain has been on a downturn because of how slow it is for a long time

Look at those decklists, they lose basically nothing from rotation. If more cards = more power why does nothing except Zur play any of those cards? Why will we have the exact same decks at basically the same power level after they remove 1000ish cards from the format?
 
Oddjob OTP said:
Again: Zur is the only deck of those, the top 7 decks that plays anything of note from the 4.5 sets rotating out other than pain lands or swiftspear. And Domain has been on a downturn because of how slow it is for a long time

Look at those decklists, they lose basically nothing from rotation. If more cards = more power why does nothing except Zur play any of those cards? Why will we have the exact same decks at basically the same power level after they remove 1000ish cards from the format?
Click to expand...
Yes nothing from rotation because it is a 3 year rotation, if it were 2 wilds and ixalan would be going.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Yes nothing from rotation because it is a 3 year rotation, if it were 2 wilds and ixalan would be going.
Click to expand...
I'm not even sure what you're talking about anymore

1747457714496.webp

What you have been saying is that the reason for Standard's power increasing is all of these being available at the same time.

What I am saying is if that were true we'd expect large changes when the red group, the earliest and oldest cards in standard, rotate out

Instead we if we look the top decks in standard right now we have to get to the 7th deck to get to one that MIGHT be rotated out of standard (overlords and beanstalk are still good at least) from the 4 sets-and-aftermath leaving standard.

All 4 of those sets were powerful sets that dominated standard (or were aftermath, lol).

All of their cards aside for a few domain cards and Zur are currently nearly unplayable except for Swiftspear and painlands and a sideboard cards and random removal or utility cards.

I can't think of any reason for the above except that the 4 1/2 of those earlier sets are weaker than the 9 1/2 sets that follow

We generally refer to the concept of increasing power forcing older options out of playability in games as power creep.
 
Oddjob OTP said:
What you have been saying is that the reason for Standard's power increasing is all of these being available at the same time.

What I am saying is if that were true we'd expect large changes when the red group, the earliest and oldest cards in standard, rotate out
Click to expand...
You don't think that losing it's best one drop and second best threat isn't a major change? Swiftspear is the only card in the deck that has maintained maindeck playability over the season.

What I am saying is if that were true we'd expect large changes when the red group, the earliest and oldest cards in standard, rotate out

Instead we if we look the top decks in standard right now we have to get to the 7th deck to get to one that MIGHT be rotated out of standard (overlords and beanstalk are still good at least) from the 4 sets-and-aftermath leaving standard.
Click to expand...
That is not at all true when you actually start looking at the high end tournament results, Dimir Midrange typically outdoes Occulus and Omnisence in making it to the top 8.

They are both Very Dredge like in that they will spike a tournament if nobody brings proper Graveyard hate but will typically fold hard to a rest in peace.

All 4 of those sets were powerful sets that dominated standard (or were aftermath, lol).

All of their cards aside for a few domain cards and Zur are currently nearly unplayable except for Swiftspear and painlands and a sideboard cards and random removal or utility cards.

I can't think of any reason for the above except that the 4 1/2 of those earlier sets are weaker than the 9 1/2 sets that follow

We generally refer to the concept of increasing power forcing older options out of playability in games as power creep.
Click to expand...
Except the creep is not where the power is coming from. Nothing in Tarkir is all that much stronger than anything from Dominaria or Ravnica 3. Steel Cutter isn't all that powerful without really good cantrips to keep you going and the cantrips in Standard(and Pioneer Pheonix because despite all the supposed power creep cantrips from decades ago are still more powerful than the ones printed now)

Hell even in Modern, Is Guide of Souls being a pushed version of Soul Warden the problem? or is it that Energy being a fucking stupid mechanic the problem?

Going back to the ORIGINAL point I had.

Final Fantasy is a perfectly fine set power wise, It is probably not going to affect Standard much because unless there is an insanely powerful combo or synergy nothing ever does. Ride's end isn't that much more powerful than..Parting Gust, or Keep watch..or even seal away really. It just took Overlords over the top cause it works with Up the Beanstalk.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
You don't think that losing it's best one drop and second best threat isn't a major change? Swiftspear is the only card in the deck that has maintained maindeck playability over the season.
Click to expand...
I think RDW having to change to any of their other really good one drops like Lavarunner or Heartfire Hero over it is a change but not a big one. Maybe a couple percentage points in some matchups. Izzet Prowess it's an even smaller change because Elusive Otter is only slightly outclassed by Swiftspear.
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
That is not at all true when you actually start looking at the high end tournament results, Dimir Midrange typically outdoes Occulus and Omnisence in making it to the top 8.

They are both Very Dredge like in that they will spike a tournament if nobody brings proper Graveyard hate but will typically fold hard to a rest in peace.
Click to expand...
5th or 8th most popular deck, and the other one playing a significant amount of cards from older sets although they are all either interaction (where there's always a lot of choice) and maybe one copy of Shelly (remember when people still played her?). I will concede that they EVENTUALLY stopped printing extremely good black removal every set and they stopped shortly before Wilds of Eldraine

Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Except the creep is not where the power is coming from. Nothing in Tarkir is all that much stronger than anything from Dominaria or Ravnica 3. Steel Cutter isn't all that powerful without really good cantrips to keep you going and the cantrips in Standard(and Pioneer Pheonix because despite all the supposed power creep cantrips from decades ago are still more powerful than the ones printed now)

Hell even in Modern, Is Guide of Souls being a pushed version of Soul Warden the problem? or is it that Energy being a fucking stupid mechanic the problem?
Click to expand...
Power creep isn't everywhere all the time. Opt is less powerful then Preordain/Ponder/Brainstorm yes. Whatever 4 or 5 mana LD we have now is worse than Sinkhole and stripmine. But I'm not comparing Cori Steel Cutter to Ancestral Recall, I'm comparing it to the cards released 2 years ago.

Guide of Souls is a pushed version of Soul Warden and energy is part of the reason why but there are plenty of cards from MH3 that say "Energy" and aren't relevant to anyone.

Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Ride's end isn't that much more powerful than..Parting Gust, or Keep watch..or even seal away really.
Click to expand...
It's actually one of the more powerful white removal spells, power crept version of Firece Retribution which last I knew was Pauper's removal of choice and probably would have replaced it if printed at common instead of uncommon. The reason it doesn't see more play outside of Beans is because there's not a lot of non-black white decks to play it.
 
Oddjob OTP said:
Lavarunner or Heartfire Hero over it is a change but not a big one.
Click to expand...

Oddjob OTP said:
Elusive Otter is only slightly outclassed by Swiftspear.
Click to expand...
Losing a haste threat is a massive deal, and if you are using Heartfire Hero you probably have to use the mouse package..which is at odds with the Cori-Steel Cutter package.

5th or 8th most popular deck, and the other one playing a significant amount of cards from older sets although they are all either interaction (where there's always a lot of choice) and maybe one copy of Shelly (remember when people still played her?).
Click to expand...
Yes Occulus and Omniscience are "more popular" in theory but the decks do not convert that to wins in high level play, and Shelly is still one of the best cards in the format in terms of individual power..but she works less well with Unholy Annex than Archfiend of the Dross cause going Unholy Annex > Archfiend of the Dross > Ritual Chamber is a hell of a curve.

I'm comparing it to the cards released 2 years ago.
Click to expand...
Cori-Steel Cutter isn't that much stronger than anything released 2 years ago, it just works well with cheap ass cantrips.

It's actually one of the more powerful white removal spells,
Click to expand...
That is a low bar, its a variation of a card type that we have had for...ages and ages that gets a barely passing grade as a removal spell because you can cast it in the sad mode for 5.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom