Magic The Gathering

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Hey @Honka Honka Burning Love what's the final work on EOE's story? Did it finally make Test of Metal canon?

You know... I'm kind of pissed at this card:
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Why even have that second sentence??? That's what the slivers are for!
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A near free sliver generator is perfectly great on its own.

Also:
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For real? At the end of your turn your life total just gets resets to 10 in a normal game (20 in commander)? Necropotence just became sooooo hard...

(Or do you think they had another typo and it was supposed to be half the life you started the turn with?)
 
Flexo said:
Otherwise I guess you're going to be stocking old fashioned artifact hate.
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Unless you already have it in your hand I am not sure it's gonna help all that much.

Like that second game I linked opponent had 1 full turn with the stupid thing and was on par with LSV's board. The thing is kind of like a Bolas's Citadel that doesn't get you killed if you brick.
 
Flexo said:
Hey @Honka Honka Burning Love what's the final work on EOE's story? Did it finally make Test of Metal canon?

You know... I'm kind of pissed at this card:
View attachment 7695059
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When I saw this I thought "Cool, gonna see some slivers in standard."

NOPE completely garbage in both standard and limited play, whoever fucking thought of this should be fired.
 
I think the sliver fucker could play okay in standard with all the token stuff we’ve got, but it’s not so good in limited. First guy I played had one, and I ran right over them. The creatures in this set are way too good to get beaten by a 1/1 with double strike.
 
People seem to really hate Slivers, I have been trying to get back into it since I last played it as a kid, went to a LGS, shot the shit, chatted a bit and nabbed a few things. When asked if I'd be interested in Commander games, said sure got clarification on what's allowed and I got a visceral "fuck off, not with that" when I asked if Slivers were still a thing since I thought they were cool lil critters as a kid.

But reading last few posts i'm getting major mixed messages, is there some stigma era I missed or something?
 
Baron Reginald said:
People seem to really hate Slivers, I have been trying to get back into it since I last played it as a kid, went to a LGS, shot the shit, chatted a bit and nabbed a few things. When asked if I'd be interested in Commander games, said sure got clarification on what's allowed and I got a visceral "fuck off, not with that" when I asked if Slivers were still a thing since I thought they were cool lil critters as a kid.

But reading last few posts i'm getting major mixed messages, is there some stigma era I missed or something?
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As a veteran of Magic slivers where pretty busted but nowadays they aren't. Stuff like Farewell just completely massacres the boys.
 
Slivers get hate because casuals don't generally know how to play against that kind of strategy, and because at one time Slivers were genuinely good in casual Commander. These days the tribe is too slow and its individual creatures too weak to make much of an impact at anything but the most casual tables.

It's sort of like how people still pretend Edgar Markov is a busted commander when he's really mediocre these days.
 
Maratus volans said:
It's sort of like how people still pretend Edgar Markov is a busted commander when he's really mediocre these days.
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Yes and no - he's still head and shoulders above other vampire options, which has always been the frustration. You could play Mono-black with genuinely zero intent of ever casting him, and he outpaces all of the other options there.

The trouble is that people have clued into the fact that the game is rife with two-card combos, and a lot of EDH playgroups and decks these days are "I run all of the staples in my color, then I run all of the 2-card infinites in my colors" with palette swaps on the commander, which slivers can't really deal with.

Frankly, fair decks in general can't really deal with goodstuffcombo, because stax - in particular, tutor hate - is socially verboten because pubstompers realized they could just shit themselves and whine if anyone correctly prioritized or counterplayed their all-in piles. I have of late become enamored with running cards like Sadistic Sacrament to castrate combo players and watch grown men throw temper-tantrums.
 
BlackDragoons said:
As a veteran of Magic slivers where pretty busted but nowadays they aren't. Stuff like Farewell just completely massacres the boys.
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That is why I despise them, a Sliver deck effectively means I have to play the game of "I have to relentlessly bully this person eternally or they fucking snowball out of control"
 
Maratus volans said:
Slivers get hate because casuals don't generally know how to play against that kind of strategy, and because at one time Slivers were genuinely good in casual Commander. These days the tribe is too slow and its individual creatures too weak to make much of an impact at anything but the most casual tables.

It's sort of like how people still pretend Edgar Markov is a busted commander when he's really mediocre these days.
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Slivers can be slow or if they have a decent hand they can easily have "Slivers have haste plus tap for any color of mana by turn 2" Then you start seeing stuff with slivers that have cascade and it just snowballs hard unless you have a mass exile effect.

(Editor Note: Grammar is complete shit, I blame the prerelease that i've been hosting)
 
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Baron Reginald said:
People seem to really hate Slivers, I have been trying to get back into it since I last played it as a kid, went to a LGS, shot the shit, chatted a bit and nabbed a few things. When asked if I'd be interested in Commander games, said sure got clarification on what's allowed and I got a visceral "fuck off, not with that" when I asked if Slivers were still a thing since I thought they were cool lil critters as a kid.

But reading last few posts i'm getting major mixed messages, is there some stigma era I missed or something?
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They at least have a pretty good theme song.
 
Baron Reginald said:
But reading last few posts i'm getting major mixed messages, is there some stigma era I missed or something?
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I think it really comes down to the types of players that gravitate to a certain type of deck, and how a lot of people that play commander now feel about that kind of playstyle. One of the regulars at my store built a sliver deck, netdecking it to hell and back to make sure that they could play it like a combo deck and vomit out their entire list onto the table by turn 4-5 if they weren't treated as the archenemy. Back in the wild west days of commander, this would mean that the playgroup should identify this was an issue, build decks to counter it, and insist on playing those decks against the sliver deck. Now, players just get whiney that they don't get to show off the silly cute funny uwu pls watch me play my deck bullshit when a player snowballs off.

I personally think that slivers are a fun deck type, and they shouldn't have the stigma around them that they do, but it would take a lot of shitty deckbuilding to make other players accept them as not being worthy of kill on sight. It's like Nekusar. They're only scary if you (the player facing down the sliver deck being pointed like a shotgun wielded by a cheese loving, tranny hating visionary) didn't build with the archetype in mind. It doesn't help that WOTC has a history of taking archetypes that suck balls (shrines, old one off tribes) and giving them broken and clearly signposted cards that take them from a fringe playable idea that some autist tries to make a 5 card combo playable with to cEDH level goyslop that everyone and their mother is trying to play because its the hottest shiniest new turd in the bowl.

This is all just a really long post for me to tell people that they should be playing Hivestone in every single commander deck ever and that WORC should stop being cowards and change slivers back to 'all' not 'your' in the rules text.

(ETA clarification to who you is in this situation)
 
Baron Reginald said:
People seem to really hate Slivers, I have been trying to get back into it since I last played it as a kid, went to a LGS, shot the shit, chatted a bit and nabbed a few things. When asked if I'd be interested in Commander games, said sure got clarification on what's allowed and I got a visceral "fuck off, not with that" when I asked if Slivers were still a thing since I thought they were cool lil critters as a kid.

But reading last few posts i'm getting major mixed messages, is there some stigma era I missed or something?
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Okay so I am going to be completely honest, and this is probably gonna piss someone off but that is fine.

Slivers are mechanically just one of the single worst Tribes in the game (right next to Allies) they are incredibly parasitic, which means if you play slivers...you basically only get to play slivers, and due to how slivers work there really only have two modes.

Nobody has any level of interaction and you have enough slivers to turn them into giant above rate monsters.
People have interaction and your slivers are just kind of bad dorks.

those options don't exactly lead to a large amount of interesting game states, especially in Commander where...even the worst Sliver Commander is just kind of a miserable experience to play against because effectively the best way to deal with them is to beat the holy hell out of the Sliver player relentlessly lest the Slivers get out of control.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Okay so I am going to be completely honest, and this is probably gonna piss someone off but that is fine.

Slivers are mechanically just one of the single worst Tribes in the game (right next to Allies) they are incredibly parasitic, which means if you play slivers...you basically only get to play slivers, and due to how slivers work there really only have two modes.

Nobody has any level of interaction and you have enough slivers to turn them into giant above rate monsters.
People have interaction and your slivers are just kind of bad dorks.

those options don't exactly lead to a large amount of interesting game states, especially in Commander where...even the worst Sliver Commander is just kind of a miserable experience to play against because effectively the best way to deal with them is to beat the holy hell out of the Sliver player relentlessly lest the Slivers get out of control.
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Oh, no that doesn't make me mad at all. I thought they looked cool and I knew for a fact because of their synergy they would be simple, and it was a major reason I asked about them (cool + simple), since again I haven't played the game in like 12+ years, so having simpler gameplay while i learn all the mechanics I have missed over the years would be less hassle. But, I never understood the hate for simplicity.
I reflected that simplicity with a quickly thrown together bird deck, which... basically served the exact same function as slivers full of double strike, flying, buffing other birds with trample, making other birds cheaper, yadayadda but because they weren't slivers, it was apparently fine, which added to my confusion 😅
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
Okay so I am going to be completely honest, and this is probably gonna piss someone off but that is fine.

Slivers are mechanically just one of the single worst Tribes in the game (right next to Allies) they are incredibly parasitic, which means if you play slivers...you basically only get to play slivers, and due to how slivers work there really only have two modes.

Nobody has any level of interaction and you have enough slivers to turn them into giant above rate monsters.
People have interaction and your slivers are just kind of bad dorks.

those options don't exactly lead to a large amount of interesting game states, especially in Commander where...even the worst Sliver Commander is just kind of a miserable experience to play against because effectively the best way to deal with them is to beat the holy hell out of the Sliver player relentlessly lest the Slivers get out of control.
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They are an interesting idea but I don't think they translate well to any format that isn't a 1v1.

I mostly play casual precon these days and knights feel more like what silvers should be in commander
 
Baron Reginald said:
Oh, no that doesn't make me mad at all. I thought they looked cool and I knew for a fact because of their synergy they would be simple, and it was a major reason I asked about them (cool + simple), since again I haven't played the game in like 12+ years, so having simpler gameplay while i learn all the mechanics I have missed over the years would be less hassle. But, I never understood the hate for simplicity.
I reflected that simplicity with a quickly thrown together bird deck, which... basically served the exact same function as slivers full of double strike, flying, buffing other birds with trample, making other birds cheaper, yadayadda but because they weren't slivers, it was apparently fine, which added to my confusion 😅
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Slivers is just a very obvious compiling problem, and each makes things worse. Do you remove Bonescythe Sliver, or Brood Sliver? That's also not counting that since Slivers buff themselves, any effect works on themselves too. You can make your board indestructible with Eldrazi Monument, but it can still be destroyed with basic artifact removal, while Sliver Hivelord means destruction is off the table. That's also not counting that Slivers have Sliver Overlord, which means that you can be playing the same Slivers consistently. Plus, there is a bit of an efficiency argument: If I wanted an extra keyword (such as reach) for all of my elves elves, I'd need a card like Spidersilk Armor, which also a slot I'm not using for an elf. If I want the same for Slivers, I put in Spinneret Sliver, which at the very least is an extra body if the reach isn't relevant.

Slivers do have the downside in comparison to other tribes of not getting tokens as much, but that isn't too bad if you aren't playing against super-wide decks. I'll admit Slivers have a cool aesthetic, and the hivemind idea is neat on paper, but it can be very annoying to play against.
 
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