Magic The Gathering

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Maratus volans said:
In fact, Kamigawa gives them a perfect template here: bring back the plane mostly in name, maybe include a couple of things that people with a shallow knowledge of the lore would know about (Sengir, Feroz, Joven), maybe add some dumb retcons (Ulgrotha was actually Serra's home plane!), and then shove most of it into the background so you can dispense the latest installment of Jacetice League's Capeshit Punch-Up Adventures or whatever.
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So exactly like Duskmourn. :D

I guess part of my issue with that lore was that it was just a plain old demon behind it all and not even like an Elder Demon or something that felt grander. Val-whatshisname was supposed to be on par with Yawgmoth? I'd believe it was grandmammy Sengir who turned herself into a house trying to live forever after her spark got messed up (like what Bolas and Liliana tried but something went wrong) before a plain demon.

Maratus volans said:
EDIT: Also worth pointing out - Bloomburrow took over Lorwyn's role as 'sunny happy tribal plane' and they're still doing Lorwyn next year. However they butcher that setting will also be a template for how they can butcher Ulgrotha.
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If anything seems like every plane is becoming the sunny happy tribal plane. Even Duskmourn, the plane that was supposed to be scary, felt more like a theme park ride than anything actually terrifying.

Honka Honka Burning Love said:
View attachment 7889534

LOL

LMAO

Can't have a modern magic set without fucking Fat Dykes.
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They couldn't even put their kid in the image? The original got that much right.
1757509424163.webp
 
Flexo said:
If anything seems like every plane is becoming the sunny happy tribal plane. Even Duskmourn, the plane that was supposed to be scary, felt more like a theme park ride than anything actually terrifying.
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Well when your bad guy is eternally confined to the Cuck Chair and would have been completely out of his league if Jace weren't acting like a retard for the entirety of the Omen Path arc it is hard to be Terrifying.
 
Flexo said:
I guess part of my issue with that lore was that it was just a plain old demon behind it all and not even like an Elder Demon or something that felt grander.
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Big Nigga Val is an Elder Demon, he's just kind of retarded because the writers are also kind of retarded. Duskmourn in general is a case of poor concept meeting poor execution. The 80s schtick doesn't belong in Magic and them trying to bend themselves over backwards to justify it meant wasting lore that could've been better spent making Valgavoth and the house feel threatening. The art direction ended up being too silly and "spooky" rather than unsettling and surreal (which is what a plane like Duskmourn should be).

Another part of the issue was them trying too hard to make it distinct from Innistrad, which is also retarded because no one would've given a fuck if they had some thematic overlap, Innistrad is one of the most popular planes in the game's history. "Yeah we didn't want to give you too much of that thing you haven't had in like two years that you really like." Idiots.

Flexo said:
If anything seems like every plane is becoming the sunny happy tribal plane. Even Duskmourn, the plane that was supposed to be scary, felt more like a theme park ride than anything actually terrifying.
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100%. Any edge or flavor is gone, we're eating well-done steak with Ralph at this point.
 
Very Professional said:
Big Nigga Val is an Elder Demon, he's just kind of retarded because the writers are also kind of retarded.
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*checks cards* He is an elder demon. Man what was put in my booze this week?

Very Professional said:
Duskmourn in general is a case of poor concept meeting poor execution. The 80s schtick doesn't belong in Magic and them trying to bend themselves over backwards to justify it meant wasting lore that could've been better spent making Valgavoth and the house feel threatening. The art direction ended up being too silly and "spooky" rather than unsettling and surreal (which is what a plane like Duskmourn should be).
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Exhibit A...
1757641615655.webp I mean just compare it to a set who's icon looks similar: 1757641918091.webp

Very Professional said:
Another part of the issue was them trying too hard to make it distinct from Innistrad, which is also retarded because no one would've given a fuck if they had some thematic overlap, Innistrad is one of the most popular planes in the game's history. "Yeah we didn't want to give you too much of that thing you haven't had in like two years that you really like." Idiots.
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especially given has gothic haunted houses are.
 
God I forgot about the fucking cheerleader card.
Flexo said:
especially given has gothic haunted houses are.
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It's also why Curses didn't show up in the set. They considered doing something similar called Wounds (like it's fucking Dead by Daylight or some shit), but realized that they were basically just remaking Curses and scrapped the subtype. Some of the cards still made it in, namely Cracked Skull and Grievous Wound.
 
Very Professional said:
Big Nigga Val is an Elder Demon, he's just kind of retarded because the writers are also kind of retarded. Duskmourn in general is a case of poor concept meeting poor execution. The 80s schtick doesn't belong in Magic and them trying to bend themselves over backwards to justify it meant wasting lore that could've been better spent making Valgavoth and the house feel threatening. The art direction ended up being too silly and "spooky" rather than unsettling and surreal (which is what a plane like Duskmourn should be).
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The problem is, he Rules the plane that means he instantly Wins against anyone one supremely powerful. Really there should be no "Survivors"

If you want to have Valgavoth as the almighty ruler of the plane (which really makes no sense that he has ruled it for "Centuries" we are still less than 100 years from Old-Walkers existing and an Old Walker would have run across Valgavoth and banished his ass..) then he should have ruled the plane...and went to sleep after the house consumed the plane. That way The Neo-Walkers are going into something with nobody to explain, no survivors to explain about, no Cult...just constructs of the House.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
The problem is, he Rules the plane that means he instantly Wins against anyone one supremely powerful. Really there should be no "Survivors"

If you want to have Valgavoth as the almighty ruler of the plane (which really makes no sense that he has ruled it for "Centuries" we are still less than 100 years from Old-Walkers existing and an Old Walker would have run across Valgavoth and banished his ass..) then he should have ruled the plane...and went to sleep after the house consumed the plane. That way The Neo-Walkers are going into something with nobody to explain, no survivors to explain about, no Cult...just constructs of the House.
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You could also have him be omnipotent but not omniscient. Valgavoth keeps the survivors (ideally other fantasy characters and not fucking 80s caricatures) around for funsies because he'd be eternally bored without them and maintains conditions where they can eke out a miserable subsistence—grimy pipe water, leftover hardtack, the embers of an eternally-dying fireplace—just awful enough to push some to strike out into danger, which is where he gets his sick entertainment. He could annihilate the 'walkers almost effortlessly if they started causing problems, but he'd have to be able to focus on them long enough to do so rather than resting on his laurels and expecting his constructs (which could be animated by him but function independently of him) to do the work he should be doing. Have his hubris be his own undoing. He's been untouchable for so long he's forgotten he truly isn't. I don't know, do fucking anything but what they did with him.
 
Very Professional said:
God I forgot about the fucking cheerleader card.

It's also why Curses didn't show up in the set. They considered doing something similar called Wounds (like it's fucking Dead by Daylight or some shit), but realized that they were basically just remaking Curses and scrapped the subtype. Some of the cards still made it in, namely Cracked Skull and Grievous Wound.
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Holy cow! Grievous Wound is almost exactly a curse. (enchant player and everything) WTF did they not make it one?

Very Professional said:
You could also have him be omnipotent but not omniscient. Valgavoth keeps the survivors (ideally other fantasy characters and not fucking 80s caricatures) around for funsies because he'd be eternally bored without them and maintains conditions where they can eke out a miserable subsistence—grimy pipe water, leftover hardtack, the embers of an eternally-dying fireplace—just awful enough to push some to strike out into danger, which is where he gets his sick entertainment. He could annihilate the 'walkers almost effortlessly if they started causing problems, but he'd have to be able to focus on them long enough to do so rather than resting on his laurels and expecting his constructs (which could be animated by him but function independently of him) to do the work he should be doing. Have his hubris be his own undoing. He's been untouchable for so long he's forgotten he truly isn't. I don't know, do fucking anything but what they did with him.
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IMO had they more skilled writers who put in effort, they could have done something where Val Killmore was scared of old planeswalkers and had survived as long as he had by going "dormant" whenever an old walker showed up and not drawing any attention. At best he may just encourage a sense of dread to subtlety encourage the planeswalker to leave but otherwise wouldn't try to draw attention.

If you wanted a story with a proper 3 act structure, the neo-planeswalkers should have shown up and Val at first "hides" as he does out of habit. But then he starts to realize... these PWs aren't as strong as the old ones. And as the realization hits, he starts cackling and moving from subtle to overt. Then you can have a conflict of either the characters needing to escape and/or something with the omenpaths. You could do survivors trying to find one to escape and/or a race to try and close off the omenpaths so Val can't get new victims coming in.

Of course if I was involved with story at wizards, I'd just rip off Pandorum for Duskmourn and have this whole thing about the inhabitants of the plane have been generations "cultivated" by Val for centuries. (Along with some of your ideas above which definitely have merit to them too.)
 
I hate Duskmourn especially because it could have been good. Some of the horror was actually neat, like Abhorrent Oculus, or hell I don't mind some of the haunted toys, wasn't the first time they were made. Yet its filled with so much stupid crap because why take anything seriously. Why are all the survivors taken straight out of the 80's if Duskmourn is a plane that thrives from other plane visitors? Mirrodin also did the "no natural life" thing and at least brought in multiple species. For Duskmourn non-monsters, there's gremlins, one kor, and one elf. Rest are humans or monsters. How boring. Hell, they write about how supposedly every waking moment is hell, yet the survivors are quipping and don't look like they are suffering at all.

Valgavoth isn't the worst villain, but they have written some dumb stuff for him. His origin is ok, expanding his prison to escape it is neat, but its not fantasy. They also had the perfect way of making him threatening to the heroes: make him capture someone and hold them hostage, so they knowingly wander back into his jaws. They sorta did, with Valgavoth capturing Loot, but then he gave him to Winter so he could win a race I guess. This resulted in losing Loot, and thus Valgavoth isn't really a threat anymore, since all he can do is send his minions out. Not sure why he didn't just use the race as a scouting mission rather than "oh i must win so i can get pseudo planeswalker powers despite the omenpaths." Its also way too obvious that Marina Vendrell will kill/seal him and will probably end up unsatisfying like each other arc.

Personally, I'd treat him like an angler fish: perhaps the reason the nu-walkers arrived is because of some artifact they've heard about that Valgavoth spread rumours about. It would also be something if he captured someone, and instead of letting them out the next set he instead taunts those who escaped, reminding them thaat they must walk right into his jaws if they want to save their friend. Have the heroes poetically lead him into a trap to defeat him or something.
 
I'mma real anime gurl said:
Sorry for necroing a thread but Untold Stories Elspeth happens to be a alright comic book about the unpublished Theros Beyond Death story. Honestly it's better than their recent offerings as of late but if you want to read it you can use a scan site or something.
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Oh nice. I had a couple of the other magic comics but haven't the energy to check them out yet. (I hope Nahiri is entertaining.) If they actually finally gave us the TBD story and it's decent... I might shell out real money. I always felt Elspeth was pretty gipped in the execution of otherwise solid potential stories.
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
I wanna point out that Elspeth is responsible for Nicol Bolas getting free because she just blurted out His name in front of him like an actual autistic retard.
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What are you talking about? After she beat Phyrexia for totes real this time guyz! Elspeth ascended on to higher planes to enjoy some well deserved rest.

Surely no writer worth their salt would keep trying to milk a character's story that's played out....

Yes I know the truth. That's the joke.
 
Return to Theros: But somehow Elspeth returned...
Return to Tarkir: But somehow Nicol Bolas returned...
Return to Lowryn: But somehow The Great Aurora returned...
 
CycloneBee said:
Return to Tarkir: But somehow Nicol Bolas returned...
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To be fair "Sealing Badguy Away" never works long term.

It was just hilariously stupid how Bolas got out. It wasn't cause Jace fucked with the Gem of Becoming
It wasn't a plan by Nicol himself

It was someone who was dead during War of the Spark, who has never met Nicol Bolas seeing him and and saying "AW SHEEEEEEEEEEEEET ITS NICOL BOLAAAAS!"
 
Retink Retunk said:
How long before we get Nicol Bolas becoming the new Phyrexian leader?
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Given that Norn apparently tied the oil to new pheyexias existence and it is now phased out in a way that i am not sure can be undone, zero. Bolas built an army that was better than new phyrexia so why would he downgrade?
 
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