Magic The Gathering

[DootSkeleton]

Yeah no, i can complain about current design but i do not want to go back to a time when the only removal spells were Abrade, A bad hero's downfall and Vraskas Spite

We must RETVRN to the best standard environment of all time: INN-RTR
Alternatively: SOM-INN or THS-KTK
Innistrad was so good it's unreal. I love combo and prison but I may love Abzan midrange more

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

We must RETVRN to the best standard environment of all time: INN-RTR
Alternatively: SOM-INN or THS-KTK
Innistrad was so good it's unreal. I love combo and prison but I may love Abzan midrange more

I dont think standard would be as bad of it were only 2 years, Vivi Cauldron would not exist

 

[Oddjob OTP]

I dont think standard would be as bad of it were only 2 years, Vivi Cauldron would not exist

Also wouldn't exist if they weren't trying to pepper constructed packs with commander cards. I think there's a world before FIRE Design where the last 3 years of good constructed cards designed for constructed would have been a decent format but they keep on fucking shit up with cards that people aren't supposed to be able to solve in formats where people play interaction.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Also wouldn't exist if they weren't trying to pepper constructed packs with commander cards. I think there's a world before FIRE Design where the last 3 years of good constructed cards designed for constructed would have been a decent format but they keep on fucking shit up with cards that people aren't supposed to be able to solve in formats where people play interaction.

Oh Yes Commander focused Cards Agatha's Soul Cauldron* and Monstrous Rage.

*Soul Cauldron is what really breaks the Vivi deck. I can't bitch about Vivi because "Broken with cantrips" isn't fucking new.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Oh Yes Commander focused Cards Agatha's Soul Cauldron* and Monstrous Rage.

*Soul Cauldron is what really breaks the Vivi deck. I can't bitch about Vivi because "Broken with cantrips" isn't fucking new.

Soul Cauldron is an obvious commander insert for funny token decks and a thousand dumb crab rave combos, I really doubt they imagined it to be a powerful constructed card any more then they thought constructed would latch on to Nadu or One Ring.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Soul Cauldron is an obvious commander insert for funny token decks and a thousand dumb crab rave combos, I really doubt they imagined it to be a powerful constructed card any more then they thought constructed would latch on to Nadu or One Ring.

What the fuck are you talking about? It's Graveyard hate with upside. It's statistically no different than Relic of Proj in edh for 99% of decks.

You might as well claim Ghost Vacuum is designed "for EDH"

Edit : Shit, i don't even think Soul Cauldron is good, sure put Kenreth under it...then if gets destroyed you permanently lost your commander.

 

[Very Professional]

What the fuck are you talking about? It's Graveyard hate with upside. It's statistically no different than Relic of Proj in edh for 99% of decks.

You might as well claim Ghost Vacuum is designed "for EDH"

This is obviously wrong on its face. Agatha enables a variety of degenerate combos if you're so inclined. Relic of Progenitus at its absolute most degenerate exiles your graveyard to enable a shitty Labman wincon.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

What the fuck are you talking about? It's Graveyard hate with upside. It's statistically no different than Relic of Proj in edh for 99% of decks.

You might as well claim Ghost Vacuum is designed "for EDH"

Edit : Shit, i don't even think Soul Cauldron is good, sure put Kenreth under it...then if gets destroyed you permanently lost your commander.

I wouldn't say Ghost Vacuum is EDH because it's pretty obviously just generically powerful constructed targeted graveyard hate and doesn't make horseshoe crab dance. Or turn all of your creatures in a +1/+1 counter deck into Llanowar elves and sakura tribe elders. Or compete with Kiki-Jiki in degenerate 3p unlimited mana, card draw, infinte combat combos if you're into that. In fact, Agatha's is too fucking expensive in constructed because artifact graveyard hate is supposed to cost 1 or 0 in current year.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I wouldn't say Ghost Vacuum is EDH because it's pretty obviously just generically powerful constructed targeted graveyard hate and doesn't make horseshoe crab dance. Or turn all of your creatures in a +1/+1 counter deck into Llanowar elves and sakura tribe elders. Or compete with Kiki-Jiki in degenerate 3p unlimited mana, card draw, infinte combat combos if you're into that. In fact, Agatha's is too fucking expensive in constructed because artifact graveyard hate is supposed to cost 1 or 0 in current year.

The first one you listed does nothing on it's own
The second is literally just Cryptoith Rite but worse.
The Third one is like..alot of shit?

And once again, Soul Cauldron has seen more play in Modern than it has in any other format so its obviously not "too expensive for constructed" because Yawgmoth was one of the top decks in Modern until MH3. Yawg was one of the few decks that was competing during scam.

I wouldn't call Soul Cauldron designed for anything in mind except "Iteration on Graveyard hate because Relic of Progenitus and Nihil Spell bomb are kind of not good enough anymore" which is a thing they have done quite often. We saw it with the various tools scam used (which only broke because Evoke), we saw it with Deadly Dispute, we saw it with the various Tormenting Voice variants. It just happened to break with..a single card of the 3 thousand cards in Standard.

I wouldn't attribute that to them designing for Commander, I would attribute it to them trying to make graveyard hate that isn't absolutely useless against decks that don't rely on the graveyard.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

The first one you listed does nothing on it's own

It's a funny ("funny?") joke for unserious decks in a for-fun format (unless you add a 4th card to the combo)

The second is literally just Cryptoith Rite but worse.

You can do other things at the same time until your artifact is answered with more activations, and in the context of counter decks it is a repeatable way to add counters (which will undoubtedly add counters... and more counters).

The Third one is like..alot of shit?

Yeah but not much like Relic of Progenitus

And once again, Soul Cauldron has seen more play in Modern than it has in any other format so its obviously not "too expensive for constructed" because Yawgmoth was one of the top decks in Modern until MH3. Yawg was one of the few decks that was competing during scam.

Yeah, but not as graveyard hate as a combo card.

I wouldn't call Soul Cauldron designed for anything in mind except "Iteration on Graveyard hate because Relic of Progenitus and Nihil Spell bomb are kind of not good enough anymore" which is a thing they have done quite often. We saw it with the various tools scam used (which only broke because Evoke), we saw it with Deadly Dispute, we saw it with the various Tormenting Voice variants. It just happened to break with..a single card of the 3 thousand cards in Standard.

It's only worth putting in your deck or sideboard IF you can abuse with cards you have brought or if it's a metagame call to fuck with people who are using it as a combo.

I wouldn't attribute that to them designing for Commander, I would attribute it to them trying to make graveyard hate that isn't absolutely useless against decks that don't rely on the graveyard.

It sees no play for that, when it was printed it didn't replace Hearse in standard or existing graveyard hate in modern (except in the one creature based combo deck using activated abilities) and when vacuum was printed it replaced hearse (because it's 1 mana and it's late game fallback mode is better)

 

[Very Professional]

Wizards of the Coast will literally make a set called Modern Horizons and put EDH decks into it and EDH players will still tell you they don't design for EDH.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

You can do other things at the same time until your artifact is answered with more activations, and in the context of counter decks it is a repeatable way to add counters (which will undoubtedly add counters... and more counters).

Which is like..fine. I don't think WOTC went "Lets make a card that exists only to set up rube goldberg machines just for commander players"

Yeah but not much like Relic of Progenitus

Which isn't really playable anymore (largely because the first ability is opponents choice)

Yeah, but not as graveyard hate as a combo card.

If Yawg were still a Tier one deck it would be for both, there are quite a few reanimator decks in the top tier at the moment. (and Eating Grief was relevant during Scam's dominance.)

It's only worth putting in your deck or sideboard IF you can abuse with cards you have brought or if it's a metagame call to fuck with people who are using it as a combo.

That is only because there are largely better options, which means it is kind of working as intended, if you can use the marginal value you use it. If not you you use ghost vacuum.

It sees no play for that, when it was printed it didn't replace Hearse in standard or existing graveyard hate in modern (except in the one creature based combo deck using activated abilities) and when vacuum was printed it replaced hearse (because it's 1 mana and it's late game fallback mode is better)

That is because Hearse is a win condition without having to have a combo set up, as is ghost vacuum. It's good in..decks that specifically want counters and activated abilities which is a pretty thin line.

Wizards of the Coast will literally make a set called Modern Horizons and put EDH decks into it and EDH players will still tell you they don't design for EDH.

And people will blame EDH on every bad design despite the cards not being particularly great in EDH. Soul Cauldron doesn't even played that much in EDH.

Do you know how many of the major +1/+1 counter commanders even have activated abilities? One in the Top 10, 3 in the top 30 and Soul Cauldron isn't highly represented in any of them despite the fact it probably should because responsible players have graveyard hate. Hell looking at a Commander probably made for Soul Cauldron. Ramos, Dragon Engine its not even on his EDH rec page as represented at all.

Hey you know what else Modern Horizon decks aren't called? Draft Horizons..yet they probably designed more cards for Drafting than they actually did Modern, yet nobody cries about random Draft chaff ruining formats which I guarantee has happened more than with EDH.

Soul Cauldron doesn't exist because of EDH, it exists because "Graveyard hate with upside" has been a thing they have been doing for a few years because Graveyard hate has kind of fallen behind in power and after 3 years it managed to do something relevant...in what is in my opinion one of the single worst "Overpowered" Decks in years because outside of specifically how Cauldron and Vivi interact with +1/+1 counters that deck is full of god awful cards.

I was never a fan of the cantrip Izzet decks like Pheonix but I can play the Pheonix deck and not wanna kill myself. Every time I cast Winternight Stories I just wanna shoot myself cause I could be casting Stock Up for the same mana also at sorcery speed and I am not a particular fan of stock up (Gimme my card draw at instant speed thank you very much)

 

[Billy the Adult]

Which isn't really playable anymore (largely because the first ability is opponents choice)

IMO not playable right now, and tbf more often than Agatha's which is pretty much only Yawgmoth. It also feels weird that they would be designing a RoP competitor, then reprint Soul-Guide Lantern. I guess you can say they intended for different situations but they definitely failed, since the only reason it sees play is because of Yawgmoth and Vivi being amazing activated abilities.

Soul Cauldron doesn't even played that much in EDH.

I suppose it depends on your definition. I'd consider Thrumming Hivepool commander bait, because its clearly not for Standard, a brick in the one Modern Sliver deck (I think?), yet its only for one specific deck at most. I guess another example is Throne of the Grim Captain, although I guess that card just seems made for no formats.

Do you know how many of the major +1/+1 counter commanders even have activated abilities? One in the Top 10, 3 in the top 30 and Soul Cauldron isn't highly represented in any of them despite the fact it probably should because responsible players have graveyard hate. Hell looking at a Commander probably made for Soul Cauldron. Ramos, Dragon Engine its not even on his EDH rec page as represented at all.

IMO much like how specific it is in Modern/Standard, its for specifically Activated Ability commanders. So Agatha, Tazri, and honestly that probably it (maybe Kenrith but he is extremely broad). Ramos maybe on paper, but he wants specifically 5 color cards, and those don't lend to Activated abilities.

Hey you know what else Modern Horizon decks aren't called? Draft Horizons..yet they probably designed more cards for Drafting than they actually did Modern, yet nobody cries about random Draft chaff ruining formats which I guarantee has happened more than with EDH.

I know my one friend that played Pauper just called the format modern horizons at this point. Niche communities, niche complaints.

I guess its subjective, but how I see it as necrotic ooze creator for combos that also has graveyard hate. I mean, Territorial Kavu is about the same amount of grave hate, but I think most would hesitate to just call it "grave hate with upside."

Also Nihil Spellbomb is technically still playable, but it seems just like Domain Aggro at this point. Definitely not as spread as it once was.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Do you know how many of the major +1/+1 counter commanders even have activated abilities? One in the Top 10, 3 in the top 30 and Soul Cauldron isn't highly represented in any of them despite the fact it probably should because responsible players have graveyard hate. Hell looking at a Commander probably made for Soul Cauldron. Ramos, Dragon Engine its not even on his EDH rec page as represented at all.

You don't (seriously) play Agatha's Soul Cauldron to exile your commander and give it's abilities to your scute swarms or whatever with +1/+1, you play because you incidentally have a lot of activated abilities, it should probably be in any +1/+1 counter deck that runs Walking Ballista or Incubation Druid, Devoted Druid, or any +1/+1 counter elf commander

 

[Very Professional]

Hey you know what else Modern Horizon decks aren't called? Draft Horizons..yet they probably designed more cards for Drafting than they actually did Modern, yet nobody cries about random Draft chaff ruining formats which I guarantee has happened more than with EDH.

Hit me up when we get Standard decks in the next Commander Masters lol. And let's be totally fair, EDH can give us dogshit drafts too: see the legendaries cluttering up MOM.

Soul Cauldron doesn't exist because of EDH, it exists because "Graveyard hate with upside"

It cannot be overstated enough that no one is running Soul Cauldron for the graveyard hate in 60-card formats.

 

[Polock]

LOL calling Soul Cauldron graveyard hate with upside is like calling Oko a food token generator with upside

 

[DootSkeleton]

Soul Cauldron is better described as a combo piece with incidental graveyard hate.

 

[Peep Plops]

LOL calling Soul Cauldron graveyard hate with upside is like calling Oko a food token generator with upside

Ah, the team play test defence.

 

[Retink Retunk]

Guys, I designed a cool new graveyard hate card. I had to give it a little upside though to help it out in power level.

Tormod's Stanky Crypt
CMC: 0
Artifact

When Tormod's Stanky Crypt comes into play target player gains 10 poison counters.

0, tap: Sacrifice Tormod's Stanky Crypt, exile target player's graveyard.

 

[Logistical Nightmare]

we’re getting memberberries real hard with the Lorowyn spoilers. Member bitterblossem? Member Muta Vault? Member figure of destiny??

Better than them forcing goyslop bullshit though. No nigger Kithkin yet either, thank fuck.