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People complaining about the proposed hybrid-identity change are 5c wallet-warriors terrified that mono and two-color commanders will get access to more tools without having to spend $500 on a mana-base, simple as.
Eh, there's an argument to be made about the aesthetics of it, especially in a format that places such a primary emphasis on color identity...but modern Commander is shit anyway, so why not allow this? It won't make the format any more shit.
 
People complaining about the proposed hybrid-identity change are 5c wallet-warriors terrified that mono and two-color commanders will get access to more tools without having to spend $500 on a mana-base, simple as.
They could also just make a bunch of new chase cards going forward that have hybrid symbols so more people would want said cards.
 
Eh, there's an argument to be made about the aesthetics of it, especially in a format that places such a primary emphasis on color identity...but modern Commander is shit anyway, so why not allow this? It won't make the format any more shit.
His take is one of the dumbest fucking things i have seen said. Most of these cards aren't playable. Unless we get some hyper insane shit in ShadowLor 2 then this change is 95% irrelevant
 
Eh, there's an argument to be made about the aesthetics of it, especially in a format that places such a primary emphasis on color identity...but modern Commander is shit anyway, so why not allow this? It won't make the format any more shit.
The aesthetics argument doesn't really follow if I have to explain that crypt ghast can go in monoblack every time I play it, which will also be true for Avatar's firebending
They could also just make a bunch of new chase cards going forward that have hybrid symbols so more people would want said cards.
...and they wouldn't if the rule wasn't changed? The One Ring was colorless
His take is one of the dumbest fucking things i have seen said. Most of these cards aren't playable. Unless we get some hyper insane shit in ShadowLor 2 then this change is 95% irrelevant
If you exclusively play at CEDH pods, or more likely you attempt to pubstomp precon players, sure.

You can look through is:hybrid to find there's a lot of cards which you could slot into decks. Sygg in black, Jinnie Fay in Green, Manamorphose in Red, Murderous Redcap in Red, Steel of the Godhead in white, Thopter Foundry in UW or UB. But let's be real; that's not a take you came up with anyways
 
People complaining about the proposed hybrid-identity change are 5c wallet-warriors terrified that mono and two-color commanders will get access to more tools without having to spend $500 on a mana-base, simple as.
I do think it shits on the spirit of the format, but you know what else shits on the spirit of the format? The last ten years of printing-for-Commander. Universes Beyond. Puke-ugly Secret Lair treatments. Giving up on the flavor and worldbuilding. So who gives a fuck at the end of the day, they'll do whatever they want and then try to gaslight the players afterwards like they always do.

His take is one of the dumbest fucking things i have seen said. Most of these cards aren't playable. Unless we get some hyper insane shit in ShadowLor 2 then this change is 95% irrelevant
EDH players will tell you it's a casual format where you can build whatever you like and then write shit like this. Also we're guaranteed to get some hyper-insane shit, if not now then somewhere down the pipeline. That's the only way Wizards can sell sets at this point. People are rightfully concerned by the precedent this sets to further homogenize deckbuilding within the format.
 
EDH players will tell you it's a casual format where you can build whatever you like and then write shit like this.
You can build whatever you like, but don't fucking sit there and tell me that a Divinity of Pride in your mono White Lifegain deck is going to explode the format. The absolute peak thing that a color is getting is White getting an extra Combat Spell and Genji Glove already kind of does that.

Unless we get some Hybrid White/Red Force of Will I don't think that there is going to be anything in ShadowLor in the Hybrid that is going to..make a wave whatsoever. Like the number of cards that this affects..that have a real kind of use is pretty minimal.

1. Activated Abilities still count for Identity so Guildmages, Deathrite Shaman and the like don't work
2. Split Cards from Ravnica won't get included because most of those are Hybrid in one cost and straight multicolored in other costs.
3. Quite alot of the Hybrid Cycles don't really work because it is shit like the Leiges that trigger off both colors.

Like The MYTHIC RARE EVOKE Cycle..won't really be affected by this change unless you are jumping through hoops because they require the actual mana to be used. If Wizards were planning on milking customers by breaking EDH...don't you think they would do that with the new Hybrid Mythics? They are doing this because between Spiderman, Avatar and Lorwyn 2 we are gonna have a bunch of Hybrid cards that..probably just aren't gonna ever see any play whatsoever.

Mary Jane Watson now goes in Ishkanah, which is nice for the 8% of people who are playing fucking Commune with Gods in Spider Tribal (Don't look at me I was just looking for what Card Mary Jane Watson would actually replace and apparently Ishkanah players are so hard up for card Draw that 25% of the Ishkanah decks on the internet play Harmonize)
 
They are doing this because between Spiderman, Avatar and Lorwyn 2 we are gonna have a bunch of Hybrid cards that..probably just aren't gonna ever see any play whatsoever.
Not sure why you're getting so worked up over this, but...

They're going to be doing a lot more hybrid cards going forward, at least until they stop trying to support Pick-Two Draft. A four player pod can't reasonably support ten two-color draft archetypes, you don't want a bunch of cards for archetypes no one is drafting stuck circling the table and uselessly eating up sideboard space. The solution is hybrid cards, which you can at least toss in your deck if they're individually strong enough and you're playing one of their colors. So far it's mostly just signpost-type cards, but I think they'll really start putting power points into them if they pull the trigger on changing how color identity is calculated for hybrid cards.

I'm personally indifferent to all of this. Like I said, modern Commander sucks and this will be just one more thing that may or may not suck about the format.
 
Not sure why you're getting so worked up over this, but...
I am not really worked up, I am just calling retarded takes like "Guys they are totally doing this to push powerful cards to mono-colored decks!!!!" absolute insanity because really..the only "weakness" Mono Colored decks tend to have is that interaction is less powerful.

But that is really just true for Red.

White has a bunch of cards that can remove anything
Blue can counter anything
Green has enough playable Bite and Disenchants to be passable
Black can remove 3/4 permanent types with no issues and is really only weak to artifacts.

Its just silly to act like the sky is falling over 500 Unplayable Jank Cards, like I said if this were some Grand Conspiracy to push powerful cards into mono color decks to milk people, they needed to make the new Incarnations actually playable.
 
Activated Abilities still count for Identity so Guildmages, Deathrite Shaman and the like don't work
DRS has explicit B and G pips. Figure of Destiny and the homage they're printing have hyrbid activation pips and are thus fine.
won't really be affected by this change unless you are jumping through hoops because they require the actual mana to be used.
They will literally be unaffected by this change, as their rules text has explicit pips. Not unlike Torrent of Souls, the old cycle.

Let's conveniently overlook that literally every Rx spellslinger and storm deck runs Manamorphose.
Worm Harvest can now go in Bx and Gx self-mill.
Waves of Aggression can now go in Wx and Rx.
Vexing Shusher becomes an auto-include in Rx / Gx creature-combo.
Thopter Foundry unlocks sword-combo for UW UB decks,
The entire New Capenna cycle, like Toluz here, slot into a million more decks.
Shadow of Doubt becomes tech for Ux or Bx control.
Shield of the Oversoul slots into Gx voltron as one of the cheapest and easiest to tutor indestructible effects in the game.
Sludge Titan is a card people don't realize exists but can now generate insane value in Bx Gx self-mill/reanimator.
Spiteful Visions now slots into Rx wheel decks.
Spitting Image becomes an insane value option for Ux clone decks.
Sundering Growth becomes a fantastic disenchant alternative for Wx Gx token decks.
Sygg becomes a great card-draw option for Ux and Bx, and can slot into merfolk decks.
Symbiote spider-shit becomes great tech in Bx reanimator.
Privileged Position now slots into almost every Wx Gx permanent-based combo shell, and plenty more besides.
Rise of the Hobgoblins becomes an easy slot in Wx token decks and goblin-tribal decks.
Rosheen Meanderer can slot into Gx X-spells decks, like hydra tribal or the sultai combo-hydra.
Scuttling Sentinel can go into Gx elfball.
Saheeli Sublime goes into Rx Ux spellslinger.
Memory Plunder becomes an obvious include for Gonti and Ux mill decks.

and there are a lot of other letters in the alphabet to go through.
Yeah, if all I did was listen to Tomer from mtggoldfish for my opinion on this topic, I would think that this change doesn't unlock any cards at all

the only "weakness" Mono Colored decks tend to have is that interaction is less powerful.
local man doesn't play game, nevertheless pretends to online
 
It's worth pointing out that a lot of the hybrid cards have double or triple colored mana pips. If you're trying to, say, put Toluz in your UR Spellslinger deck that has a lot of looting and wheel effects, you have to pay triple blue for her, which can be rough (though I guess getting Manamorphose at the same time makes it easier, lol). Privileged Position in an Orzhov Reanimator deck is now 2WWW, which is also kind of gross but may be worth it anyway to protect high-value targets. With a few exceptions (Manamorphose, Thopters), I think this mostly benefits monocolor decks, which is perfectly fine in my book.

This really does seem like an exceptionally minor nit to pick when compared against some of the other EDH things you could bitch about.
 
I honestly dont know why people are losing their collective shit at the h6brid ruling since it will help expand and give more tools to decks. I for one am excited for mono blie and mono black Oona and the fact that i can now include her in my Tinybones deck if i so choose. Now i can also put memory plunder into my tinybones deck also brings me joy. Can someone explain why this new ruling is a bad thing?
 
It doesn't really do that much, except making color identity a less consistent rule. Some poor motherfucker gonna go recount the factual color identity for a few cards with funky costs, like that 5-color leyline.
 
Uncommons from Avatar already going infinite, and at least 1 of them are hybrids.
(there are no hybrids in Ba Sing Se...)
 
Uncommons from Avatar already going infinite, and at least 1 of them are hybrids.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dMzDbJZUJN0(there are no hybrids in Ba Sing Se...)
at least it is an actual combo that is Feesable to use instead of that silly bullshit "You can build this infinite combo in EOE limited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" that everyone freaked out about before they realized that getting 4 specific cards in Limited isn't exactly easy.
 
I do think it shits on the spirit of the format, but you know what else shits on the spirit of the format? The last ten years of printing-for-Commander. Universes Beyond. Puke-ugly Secret Lair treatments. Giving up on the flavor and worldbuilding. So who gives a fuck at the end of the day, they'll do whatever they want and then try to gaslight the players afterwards like they always do.


EDH players will tell you it's a casual format where you can build whatever you like and then write shit like this. Also we're guaranteed to get some hyper-insane shit, if not now then somewhere down the pipeline. That's the only way Wizards can sell sets at this point. People are rightfully concerned by the precedent this sets to further homogenize deckbuilding within the format.
I agree, the best argument for it. I don't think anyone should be looking at the power of it, since the format is obviously very unbalanced if you actually try. The precedent that WotC will change the rules so the shiny new cards are available everywhere is the bad precedent. I will not be surprised if something is made for lessons when Strixhaven 2 comes out.

Threre's also some argument that while hybrid cards are supposed to be designed that they could be mono-color, its arguable whether they always succeed. For example, Pyrrhic Revival doesn't have a similar equivalent in white as far as I can see.
I honestly dont know why people are losing their collective shit at the h6brid ruling since it will help expand and give more tools to decks. I for one am excited for mono blie and mono black Oona and the fact that i can now include her in my Tinybones deck if i so choose. Now i can also put memory plunder into my tinybones deck also brings me joy. Can someone explain why this new ruling is a bad thing?
Giving more tools is the problem, though I guess you could argue that things have gotten so screwed that it doesn't matter. Commander is built upon restrictions, and this is lessening restrictions. Maybe most of it is just "it feels weird", like Leyline of the Guildpact being Mono-Green or Reaper King being Colorless, but I do think it goes against the spirit of the format.

If you want an example of something that (IMO) lost a lot of identity with adding tools, I'd direct to mono white. It used to be a color with some defined weaknesses, now it gets card draw, ramp, universal removal, board wipes, and creatures. They also can't revert that, so once those tools are given, they can't take them away.
 
leaving the new art for
made 5 different for azula
seem to be all avtar 1 betting wizard is doing avtar 2 in arena or next run same as lord of the ring set.
*yes i play arena *
1761676112126.png
 
and there are a lot of other letters in the alphabet to go through.
You've already mentioned Manamorphose, so I'll pitch my two cents: Ashiok, Dream Render in Bx control decks. If you want something a little cuter, Dream Salvage in a Rakdos Wheels deck.

Its just silly to act like the sky is falling over 500 Unplayable Jank Cards, like I said if this were some Grand Conspiracy to push powerful cards into mono color decks to milk people, they needed to make the new Incarnations actually playable.
I'm sure it was just silly to act like the sky is falling over a Walking Dead Secret Lair too. It's not that it's necessarily a problem yet, people are correctly seeing the writing on the wall. This company is a monkey's paw. Look no further than NWO. They heard the people's feedback that we wanted more complexity in the lower rarities. They gave us FIRE and the power creep at higher rarities to compensate. It will homogenize the format further, it will be used to push busted shit, and a knock-on effect will be that hybrid mana will show up more frequently because it's a crutch for draft design, which will in turn make draft even less interesting.
 
For example, Pyrrhic Revival doesn't have a similar equivalent in white as far as I can see.
It has things which are close - mass-reanimation fits Ascend from Avernus as well as the various 2-cmc-or-less cards, like return to the ranks. In terms of affecting all players, it doesn't do that specifically for creatures elsewhere, but it does have Second Sunrise, Roar of Redemption, Open the Vaults. The closer counterparts are in black - Patriarch's Bidding and Twilight's Call, but that's really about it.
Commander is built upon restrictions
If this were true, I would agree with the critiques of it breaking identity and spirit. But since its inception, this format has imposed no meaningful restrictions at-all on 5c wallet warriors. The Golos ban brought about screams of anguish from people with thousand-dollar-decks stuffed with impeccable landbases and every single staple card slapped over every single two-card combo.

Basically, once Blood Moon-style nonbasic hate is normalized, I'll agree with the idea that hybrids should be multicolored. But that's never gonna happen, because pubstomping whales would throw a fit (as they do every time I From the Ashes or Wave of Vitriol and effectively remove them from the game).
If you want an example of something that (IMO) lost a lot of identity with adding tools, I'd direct to mono white.
I think this issue came about because people used to 4/5c goodstuff whined and whined about having to find alternatives in mono-colored decks, as even before they started giving white draw and ramp in every set somewhere around 18-19, white had plenty of ways to do it. It was more limited and required specific construction, but it existed. The sorts of people who shove rhystic into every single deck they can are the people who Trouble in Pairs was designed as a chase-card for.
which will in turn make draft even less interesting.
I think draft's problem isn't so much coming from them making it easier on themselves with hybrid symbols - it's incompetent designers getting certain sets. Duskmourne and Final Fantasy have been some of the best sets in a long, long time which put to shame a lot of things from a decade-plus ago, but they're complemented by trash like Aetherdrift and EoE which seemed to be built by designers with no idea of how limited works and the importance of tempo - to speak nothing of Spidershit.
 
It has things which are close - mass-reanimation fits Ascend from Avernus as well as the various 2-cmc-or-less cards, like return to the ranks. In terms of affecting all players, it doesn't do that specifically for creatures elsewhere, but it does have Second Sunrise, Roar of Redemption, Open the Vaults. The closer counterparts are in black - Patriarch's Bidding and Twilight's Call, but that's really about it.
Ascend from Avernus is fair enough. But otherwise White gets only "on time" mass creature revival, like Second Sunrise or Faith's Reward. Otherwise, they mass reanimate Artifacts or Enchantments, like Brilliant Restoration, Open the Vaults, or Triumphant Reckoning. Triumphant Reckoning is especially notable since it gives white mass revive of specifically non-creatures.

Compare to black, with Balthor the Defiled, Awakening Hall, Living Death/Living End, Rise of the Dark Realms, or Liliana's ult sometimes.
If this were true, I would agree with the critiques of it breaking identity and spirit. But since its inception, this format has imposed no meaningful restrictions at-all on 5c wallet warriors. The Golos ban brought about screams of anguish from people with thousand-dollar-decks stuffed with impeccable landbases and every single staple card slapped over every single two-card combo.
You could at least argue that until General Tazri, the commanders were at least actually 5 color (though there was Reaper King if you accept that). But that's in part because they figured players would self regulate. Sure, 5 color gives you the opportunity to pubstomp, but then its not fun to play against and you won't get games past the first (in theory). Of course that's just one of the problems with EDH, expecting Rule 0 to fix everything when it only works on playgroups, otherwise you are having to read a contract to play a game.

There has been a couple attempts to make things easier at a glance but it hasn't worked the best. You had the ranking system and now brackets, but those were controversial.
I think this issue came about because people used to 4/5c goodstuff whined and whined about having to find alternatives in mono-colored decks, as even before they started giving white draw and ramp in every set somewhere around 18-19, white had plenty of ways to do it. It was more limited and required specific construction, but it existed. The sorts of people who shove rhystic into every single deck they can are the people who Trouble in Pairs was designed as a chase-card for
Could be. I always figured with mono you got higher consistency or at least a good commander with the downside of needing to use suboptimal colorless cards to fill the gaps or just dealing with the gaps. But I guess people felt the need for Red and White to change since their identities were designed around 20 life 1v1 rather than 4 FFA.
 
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