Magic The Gathering

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Even beyond the set to unseat both Homelands and Dragon's Maze, Avatar is closer to classic-MTG than was any in-universe set released last year, and every in-universe set released this year other than Tarkir.
You can have MKM and Aetherdrift. I'll take FF and ALAALA
I do not remember Dragon's Maze being that bad. But then I could be biased because it was one of the only times I got to do 2HG limited with a buddy.

I also sometimes wonder was ot really THAT bad of a set? Or does it just seem like it when it followed 2 of the best sets ever made?

I'd certainly take more of DM than MKM or aetherdrift or homelands.
 
I do not remember Dragon's Maze being that bad. But then I could be biased because it was one of the only times I got to do 2HG limited with a buddy.

I also sometimes wonder was ot really THAT bad of a set? Or does it just seem like it when it followed 2 of the best sets ever made?

I'd certainly take more of DM than MKM or aetherdrift or homelands.
I would say that Return to Ravnica ran into issues where they tried to shove all 10 guilds into all 3 sets.

Ravnica 1 split the guilds per set so each set had specific guilds that were focused on so IIRC you generally ended up with a mix and match of 3 guilds.

in Return I imagine you could occasionally open a pack of gold cards that you just can't use.
 
You, uh, have an aneurysm and forget about the set right before this one?

Even beyond the set to unseat both Homelands and Dragon's Maze, Avatar is closer to classic-MTG than was any in-universe set released last year, and every in-universe set released this year other than Tarkir.
You can have MKM and Aetherdrift. I'll take FF and ALA.
I havent played since ixalan
 
I do not remember Dragon's Maze being that bad. But then I could be biased because it was one of the only times I got to do 2HG limited with a buddy.

I also sometimes wonder was ot really THAT bad of a set? Or does it just seem like it when it followed 2 of the best sets ever made?

I'd certainly take more of DM than MKM or aetherdrift or homelands.

Maze was fine, it just was seriously over saturated in the market. That was right when I was starting to play, and people bought the hell out of that block because standard was still a format people played, shocks were back on the menu, and boxes didn’t cost an arm and a leg. I think you can still probably get your hands on a box of maze for dirt cheap, and the power level isn’t great for extended formats, but it was a solid limited environment if I remember right. Probably don’t, got my rose tinted specs on.
 
Maze was fine, it just was seriously over saturated in the market. That was right when I was starting to play, and people bought the hell out of that block because standard was still a format people played, shocks were back on the menu, and boxes didn’t cost an arm and a leg. I think you can still probably get your hands on a box of maze for dirt cheap, and the power level isn’t great for extended formats, but it was a solid limited environment if I remember right. Probably don’t, got my rose tinted specs on.
There is also the fact that Limited players are kind of retards sometimes.

People look at Triple Innistrad Fondly cause it had that silly infinite combo with Flashback cards and Gnaw to the bone.
 
I do not remember Dragon's Maze being that bad. But then I could be biased because it was one of the only times I got to do 2HG limited with a buddy.
Maze was fine, it just was seriously over saturated in the market.
Maze was a disaster for stores because it sold like shit, and to draft it you needed 1 RTR 1 GTC 1 DGM. You had to stay current on all 3 sets, which wasn't uncommon at the time - but because of how DGM was structured, you couldn't ever do 3x DGM or even 2x DGM 1x RTR, as all of the GTC guilds would have zero support and be dead picks. This wasn't helped by the fact that DGM had one card of any actual worth - Voice of Resurgence. Seriously, it was otherwise like... Aetherling was a control finisher, and maybe a buck or two. Advent of the Wurm saw play, but it was like two bucks. Blood Baron saw a bit of play and was probably the second-most-expensive-card if I remember, and Wear / Tear was the only thing of note below rare. Ral Zarek was briefly a couple bucks before it was recognized that he wasn't good, and while Exava is my waifu and I loved RB aggro with her as the curve-topper (thundermaw hellkite was too expensive for me), she was like $0.5. Oh, and Council here was like $2, because it was good in the UW control mirror-match naming Sphinx's Rev. What a stupid card design.

The one saving grace of DGM was just that you could get shocks in packs, I think 2x to a box. Otherwise, those things sat around and nooobody wanted them, especially after rotation. it doesn't help that they've reprinted most of the interesting rares / mythics that could see use in commander.

I should also say - while RTR was pretty good, GTC was a reaaaaalllly bad limited format lol. That standard was fantastic though, and the flavor of the game at the time was great - before Origins would shit on everything. But then again, given what we have, maybe I was too harsh on the Jacetice League...
 
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There is also the fact that Limited players are kind of retards sometimes.

People look at Triple Innistrad Fondly cause it had that silly infinite combo with Flashback cards and Gnaw to the bone.
Is that really why people love innistrad so much? Im not mega familiar with the cards and it was years ago but I found the dual face cards to be horrible and the plane was boring

Again its been years but the mechanics didnt appeal to me and I dont remember any stand out cards
 
I'll speak up in defense of Innistrad, with the caveat that the Limited environment was much better before the Spider Spawning deck became widely known*.

The format has a few advantages that made it stand out at the time and which are almost unheard of now:

1) No bomb was unbeatable; you could efficiently answer or play around almost all of them.
2) There were a lot of build-around uncommons in the set that were not traps at all. BUG Spider Spawning with Runic Repetition and Memory's Journey is the one everyone remembers now, but my boy Burning Vengeance was amazing too.
3) Two-color archetypes were defined, but unlike a modern set you're not bound to color within the lines the designers have already drawn for you. GW Humans, for example, can also be build as GW Travel Preparations if you don't get the Human synergy components.
4) Even the bad decks, like GR Werewolves, have interesting effects on the format because they can do good things if you don't come prepared.

Decks in this format include WU Spirits, which is a more tempo-oriented version of the typical Skies archetype; UB Zombies, which can either lean into building a wide board of chaff with mostly black cards or try to roll out some slow but beefy blue threats; BR Vampires, which are probably the most aggressive deck at the table; RG Werewolves and GW Humans, which are pretty self-explanatory; Burning Vengeance, usually a Grixis spellslinger deck build around sticking its namesake enchantment and controlling the board with flashback spells; and UG Self-Mill, which usually bleeds into Spider Spawning but doesn't have to.

*These days, it's pretty much pointless to draft 3x INN because at least half the table will be trying to force Spider Spawning, which trainwrecks the draft for everyone. But man, those few halcyon weeks before the deck became common knowledge...
 
I'd certainly take more of DM than MKM or aetherdrift or homelands.
In defense of Homelands it was a failed abortion of a set where the play testers intentionally ignored it because they didn't want to bother with it to the point that it came out as a trash fire that never stood a chance.

Is that really why people love innistrad so much? Im not mega familiar with the cards and it was years ago but I found the dual face cards to be horrible and the plane was boring

Again its been years but the mechanics didnt appeal to me and I dont remember any stand out cards
Innistrad was just fun to draft as it had a lot of options, even meme options. It didn't really need to be that deep on a philosophical level, it just did enough right where nothing stood out but everything was fun enough despite some issues like Invisible Man armed with a Meat Cleaver. The meme builds are remembered because they were weird in an otherwise very balanced game.

Avacyn Restored on the other hand was a massive disaster for limited and everyone hated it as a result which probably helped Innistrad in comparison.
 
Yep, this format's an all-timer. Phenomenal synergies, feels like pretty-solid color balance, and just so many different strategies at play that it's going to be an eternity until you feel like you've settled into the "been there, done that" stage. Some insane bombs but a lot of tools to deal with them (at least, in Bo3).
 
Yep, this format's an all-timer. Phenomenal synergies, feels like pretty-solid color balance, and just so many different strategies at play that it's going to be an eternity until you feel like you've settled into the "been there, done that" stage. Some insane bombs but a lot of tools to deal with them (at least, in Bo3).
Dark Ascension made it worse instead of better, but at least it let you board into Lost In The Woods + 42 Forests if you wanted a good laugh.
 
I would say that Return to Ravnica ran into issues where they tried to shove all 10 guilds into all 3 sets.

Ravnica 1 split the guilds per set so each set had specific guilds that were focused on so IIRC you generally ended up with a mix and match of 3 guilds.

in Return I imagine you could occasionally open a pack of gold cards that you just can't use.
I have a complete set of OG ravnica starter decks so you've triggered my autism. (it was also explained on those MaRo block podcasts)

Rav1 - Set1 = 4 guilds, Set2 = 3 guilds, Set3 = 3 guilds.
Rav2 - Set1 = 5 guilds, Set2 = 5 guilds, Set3 were all 10.

I should also say - while RTR was pretty good, GTC was a reaaaaalllly bad limited format lol. That standard was fantastic though, and the flavor of the game at the time was great - before Origins would shit on everything. But then again, given what we have, maybe I was too harsh on the Jacetice League...
I have a soft spot for Origins...

But fair enough and thanks for answering. I did not get to do much limited formats back then.

I think the Jacetice League wasn't a bad idea, but a big problem - well just on the west coast as a whole - is that they seem to have no understanding of how to pace themselves. League of good planeswalkers? A good idea. But then it got overexposed and everyone exhausted of it.

I'll speak up in defense of Innistrad, with the caveat that the Limited environment was much better before the Spider Spawning deck became widely known*.
Like Ravnica, the problem is that they actually did a good job with Innistrad, and then started overusing it. But the original was just so great... (I think I have a complete set of it now.)
 
Rav2 - Set1 = 5 guilds, Set2 = 5 guilds, Set3 were all 10.
Yeah my mistake apparently, I forgot that "Gatecrash" was set 2 and "Dragon's Maze" was set 3.

I thought Dragon's Maze (which is a bullshit name, Niv didn't make the maze" was set 2 and set 3 was called Maze's end.
 
Dark Ascension made it worse instead of better, but at least it let you board into Lost In The Woods + 42 Forests if you wanted a good laugh.
Oh, no, I mean Avatar. There are multiple people giving their takes on the format and I can already tell they're being biased by the fact that people are playing this shit wrong.

I did play in the days when Snappy was $10 and Lili was approaching $110, but I only got to do a 1-of-each draft of it. Otherwise I did a bit of Scars and really got into drafts with RTR.
is that they seem to have no understanding of how to pace themselves
You know how they started shitting out Commander cards everywhere suddenly and started bombarding so much product into the format that they accelerated its decline by years and years? I think this is the modus operandi of people who took charge of the company from that Origins era onwards: corporate-level diktats, quotas for certain shit.

Origins seemed like the testing ground for centering the stories around planeswalkers, and then from BFZ all the way to War of the Spark, they were the driving force and shoved into absolutely everything. I don't think design really liked this idea - since they've really pulled back on the number of planeswalkers per-set.

Commander's ascendancy saw them try out having more legends and legends-matter cards in Dominaria, at which point they started printing a fucking ridiculous amount of legends into everything. Legends are a little clunky at uncommon-level for limited design, so I think this is also a diktat quota.

More-recently, they've latched onto UB and are trying to shove it everywhere - WH40K was the test there, and the smashing success of Lord of the Rings seemed to have solidified it as a money-printer. And so the corporate diktat will be to hit so much UB in a year.

It's a very clunky model that clearly is not sustainable, but to hit Hasbro's targets for growth, they're evidently fine with cannibalizing their core audience. Because the consumer is so retarded, it's going to serve them well for a while, I think, until a credit-crunch takes out that entire class of people.

I also think Battlebond and Conspiracy were both attempts to see if there was interest in 2HG and unique drafting-experience sets, both of which puttered out. Had they been bigger hits, they'd have probably become as overprinted as all that other shit.
 
I went and built the Toph, the First Metalbender as my commander and I'm gonna say that having all my stuff come back from a Farewell is probably the best feeling ever.

Plus enchanting my Portal to Phyrexia with Springheart Nantuko was a pretty fun affair.
 
Some BiC ragebait for you:

 
Some BiC ragebait for you:

The "slop" post is actually pretty well thought out and decently articulated. Going up against something like that is difficult.

Calling someone a racist or fascist has been a good and easy way to get what you want, and win an argument.

Now, trying that is akin to calling black people monkeys. It's low effort, and nobody finds it particularly impressive or entertaining.
 
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