MCU Television and Animation Series on Disney + - WandaVision, FATWS, Loki, etc

I don't care to look at any leaks, but I'm guessing next episode is going to be a flashback to when Wanda took Vision's body. Do you think it'll be a full episode thing or just part of it? I'm also curious to see if the last two (or even just the last) episodes will be longer than the ~half hour per ep we've had so far. The last one has to be longer just to round up all the main plot points (Agatha keikaku, what happens to the twins and will they continue existing, will Vision die a third time, Hayward vs WandaVision, if a third party is involved with the hex, what is Pietro's deal, Wanda's future and how that leads to DS2 and maybe a few more).
Pietro I think is actually just Peter Maximoff from the Fox universe. Agatha seemed genuinely surprised that Wanda could raise the dead (or Agatha just believed what the kids was saying is true) so I guess she found a loophole and brought a DIFFERENT brother into the mix. The fact he seems homeless when he confronts Monica makes me think he was just being controlled and he'll be on their side versus Agatha and maybe the main villain of the whole thing (Nightmare most likely).
 
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I actually don't disagree with you here. My point was never that Hayward is 100% right and should immediately kill her. It was that Monica not viewing Wanda as a threat at all and immediately knowing she's innocent based on nothing more than emotions (her entire reasoning essentially being "We've both experienced loss, so I 100% know her true thoughts and feelings") is weak writing that could have easily been fixed by giving her a piece of concrete evidence that let her know Wanda wasn't behind everything.
Her only reasoning was "I didn't feel like she wanted to hurt me", which is fucking stupid because it doesn't matter what Wanda wanted at that point. She WAS hurting people and forcing them to play out her fantasy as mind slaves. Killing her is harsh but for the sake of a whole town of American citizens, it needs to be done.
 
Her only reasoning was "I didn't feel like she wanted to hurt me", which is fucking stupid because it doesn't matter what Wanda wanted at that point. She WAS hurting people and forcing them to play out her fantasy as mind slaves. Killing her is harsh but for the sake of a whole town of American citizens, it needs to be done.
Hayward and Monica both have good points. The former is correct that Wanda is a threat and the latter is right that they have no idea what'd happen if she was taken out. It's one thing for Wanda to encase everyone in a bubble, that wouldn't cause any damage if it popped. What if everyone Wanda was controlling suddenly suffered a massive stroke or worse? This psychic bollocks is nothing to fuck with.
 
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Hayward and Monica both have good points. The former is correct that Wanda is a threat and the latter is right that they have no idea what'd happen if she was taken out. It's one thing for Wanda to encase everyone in a bubble, that wouldn't cause any damage if it popped. What if everyone Wanda was controlling suddenly suffered a massive stroke or worse? This psychic bollocks is nothing to fuck with.
Monica does not really have a good point. All evidence supports Haywards conclusion and all Monica has are unproven theories and her "feelings".

Just to quickly show you why this line of logic does not work. What if this prolonged mind slaving has negative effects on the townspeople? What if the dome expands because Wanda is alive? What if someone dies is killed off in the show?

You see how "what ifs" can go both ways. They are meaningless theories until evidence can be procured, and Hayward waited a pretty long time to gather evidence considering a whole town has been taken hostage before settling on killing her. The missile is fucking stupid, I will say that. He should have just strapped a gun to the drone and pulled the trigger. She can't react fast enough to stop that.
 
Monica does not really have a good point. All evidence supports Haywards conclusion and all Monica has are unproven theories and her "feelings".

Just to quickly show you why this line of logic does not work. What if this prolonged mind slaving has negative effects on the townspeople? What if the dome expands because Wanda is alive? What if someone dies is killed off in the show?

You see how "what ifs" can go both ways. They are meaningless theories until evidence can be procured, and Hayward waited a pretty long time to gather evidence considering a whole town has been taken hostage before settling on killing her. The missile is fucking stupid, I will say that. He should have just strapped a gun to the drone and pulled the trigger. She can't react fast enough to stop that.
What evidence does Hayward have that Monica doesn't? They were both privvy to the same information. Also, don't forget that Hayward is not acting in the townspeople's best interest: He literally just wants Vision back so he can turn him into a weapon. You don't need Monica's word for that since the evidence Darcy and the others picked up confirms it.
 
What evidence does Hayward have that Monica doesn't? They were both privvy to the same information. Also, don't forget that Hayward is not acting in the townspeople's best interest: He literally just wants Vision back so he can turn him into a weapon. You don't need Monica's word for that since the evidence Darcy and the others picked up confirms it.
I am pretending Hayward is a well written character and not some one dimensional bad guy that the writers have made bad for no other reason than Monica needs conflict in her story.

1. Hayward knows that all attempts to get evidence end with his people turning into Mind slaves, the device itself becoming inert, or the agent getting yeeted out by Wanda.

2. Wanda is clearly conscious of what she is doing, hence why his agents are getting yeeted and there is someone, likely Wanda, editing the broadcast.

3. The goal of the operation is to save the town and collect all SWORD assets. The robot idea is stupid especially after Ultron, but the idea itself of building a defense system for earth (a planet that is nearly destroyed every few years) is not stupid. Also, as I said above I am pretending Hayward is an actual character and not stupid and evil for the sake of plot.

Note: most of SWORD is stupid and evil for the sake of plot. This is bad writing.

4. Hayward knows Wanda is the source and that the only viable way to save the people and reclaim the assets is to neutralize the source.

5. Wanda was on a very short leash before the snap due to her not adhering to the accords, only being allowed to go free under Vision's protection. She is dangerous and is not assumed to be an ally of SWORD.

Monica's logic boils down to, but I "felt" she didn't want to hurt anyone. A feeling that Hayward can't accept from someone who was a mindslave to Wanda and therefore might be under her influence. Everything Hayward is doing is pretty much correct, but the show keeps framing it as the wrong move because the plot needs it to be the wrong move. In reality, we would all be thinking like Hayward because his is the only logical thought process to have.
 
I am pretending Hayward is a well written character and not some one dimensional bad guy that the writers have made bad for no other reason than Monica needs conflict in her story.

1. Hayward knows that all attempts to get evidence end with his people turning into Mind slaves, the device itself becoming inert, or the agent getting yeeted out by Wanda.

2. Wanda is clearly conscious of what she is doing, hence why his agents are getting yeeted and there is someone, likely Wanda, editing the broadcast.

3. The goal of the operation is to save the town and collect all SWORD assets. The robot idea is stupid especially after Ultron, but the idea itself of building a defense system for earth (a planet that is nearly destroyed every few years) is not stupid. Also, as I said above I am pretending Hayward is an actual character and not stupid and evil for the sake of plot.

Note: most of SWORD is stupid and evil for the sake of plot. This is bad writing.

4. Hayward knows Wanda is the source and that the only viable way to save the people and reclaim the assets is to neutralize the source.

5. Wanda was on a very short leash before the snap due to her not adhering to the accords, only being allowed to go free under Vision's protection. She is dangerous and is not assumed to be an ally of SWORD.

Monica's logic boils down to, but I "felt" she didn't want to hurt anyone. A feeling that Hayward can't accept from someone who was a mindslave to Wanda and therefore might be under her influence. Everything Hayward is doing is pretty much correct, but the show keeps framing it as the wrong move because the plot needs it to be the wrong move. In reality, we would all be thinking like Hayward because his is the only logical thought process to have.
The show keeps framing it as wrong because Hayward is a hypocrite and is acting like he is because of the five years between the snap and all of those people coming back. He is just as biased towards super powered individuals as Monica is, just in the opposite direction.
 
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So...the end credits scene is Ultron again right? There's no mind stone, so the only thing left is Ultron and Jarvis, and Ultron already shredded Jarvis once before.
Who knows? James Spader does have a credit in the show, so maybe. I've been seeing theories that Wanda is gonna merge white Vision with the Vision she created, but the last episode is supposed to be sad, so we'll see.

It's kinda funny, people thought Wanda was just puppeting his dead body.
 
Pretty good episode for a series of flashbacks. Well paced, kept the tension high. I definitely think the cameo Paul Bettany was talking about is gonna be Dick Van Dyke. I don't know how it could be anything else at this point given he was Wanda's favourite sitcom star.
 
Who knows? James Spader does have a credit in the show, so maybe. I've been seeing theories that Wanda is gonna merge white Vision with the Vision she created, but the last episode is supposed to be sad, so we'll see.

It's kinda funny, people thought Wanda was just puppeting his dead body.
If we're following comics, then around this time, Wanda stopped being romantically involved with Vision. From a storytelling perspective, the whole point of the show is that Wanda needs to end her period of grief and move on from not only Vision's death, but all the suffering she's had to go through. Bringing Vision back is just a terrible way to cap off her arc.
 
Pretty good episode for a series of flashbacks. Well paced, kept the tension high. I definitely think the cameo Paul Bettany was talking about is gonna be Dick Van Dyke. I don't know how it could be anything else at this point given he was Wanda's favourite sitcom star.
That would make since on way he said it's an actor he's always wanted to work with.
 
It warms my heart to see Gypsies and comic "accurate" Wandafags absolutely seething over the show. One example comes from this article, but there's a tumblr called scarlet--wiccan who can't stop writing tl;dr essays about how racist and -ist/phobic whatever the show and especially Olsen are (sometimes shitting on Bettany as well for daring to try to cheer his buddy Johnny Depp up after the whole Amber Heard fiasco). The vast majority of people are enjoying a fun and, at times, heartbreaking show that actually tries something different in the superhero genre, but we gotta make it very serious business, you guys!!

As a Romani witch, I can't stand 'WandaVision'

In a recent episode of WandaVision, “All-New Halloween Spooktacular!” the titular superhero Wanda Maximoff a.k.a. the Scarlet Witch (played by Elizabeth Olsen) appears in her retro costume — red headband, leotard, tights, and cape — announcing that she’s a “Sokovian fortune teller.” The reference is a sidelong nod to the comic-book character Wanda’s part-Romani ethnicity that Olsen, a white actress, says she fought for.

But it should be painfully obvious that neither the Scarlet Witch’s headband nor leotard is part of our culture — it is not, as Olsen offensively claimed, "a gypsy thing" — and passing it off as such only layers on the misrepresentation. Many Roma like myself are frustrated that a rare opportunity for mainstream representation character boils down to a white lady in cosplay, especially when so many talented Roma actresses abound.


Set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, WandaVision presents a vintage sitcom world in which Wanda is suddenly reunited with her husband, the android superhero Vision, who had been killed in Marvel’s Infinity Wars by Thanos, a clue that reality isn't what it seems. When fellow residents ask the couple where they come from, or why they’re in the perfectly off-kilter town of Westview, Wanda and Vision don’t know, and the veneer of their pleasant domestic life is temporarily shattered as they struggle to remember. As the show goes on, it becomes increasingly clear that Wanda is wielding her mutant powers to construct and control their reality, driven by her agonizing grief over the family she has already lost. What many viewers may not realize, however, that the powerful Romani witch archetype dates back to the Middle Ages. While it is a stereotype, it’s rooted in a fascinating truth.


The few Roma who work as fortune tellers and witches, like myself, do not do so because we are magical, but because it’s a job that we were historically forced into. Roma are a diasporic ethnic group originating in 10th-century India, and when they arrived in Europe in the 1300s and 1400s, dark-skinned with many gods, they were relentlessly persecuted. Enslaved, legally hunted, murdered, and shunted off into the margins of society, Roma were allowed to work as performers, metal workers, horse traders, craftspeople, agricultural workers, and fortune tellers, but little else. Palmistry, card reading, tea leaf and coffee reading, and other forms of divination were brought by Roma from India and the Middle East, and Roma were consulted by Europeans for their magical, un-Christian needs because they were seen, along with other nonbelievers, as dangerous, demonic, and mystical. Roma women were cast as witches, and discriminated against, but made the most of this means of income to survive.

Today, some Roma do call themselves witches, and serve as healers and spell-casters in a community, but make no mistake, being a witch is a job like any other. I was trained by my grandmother, I studied hard, I started a business, and I take bookings in my Google calendar. This is the context that most people miss when creating (or, in this case, adapting) Romani witch characters like Wanda Maximoff, and while the Scarlet Witch has plenty of magic, she does not need to fall into the stereotype, nor have her identity erased.


Now, there are many excellent Romani actresses who could have been considered for the role. The first who comes to mind is the award-winning actress, writer, and filmmaker Mihaela Drâgan, who pioneered the burgeoning movement, Roma Futurism. Inspired by similarly identity-based sci-fi aesthetics Afrofuturism and Sinofuturism, Drâgan created the cyberwitch archetype, a hybrid of the traditional hex-casting Romani witch and code-writing tech genius. A co-founder of feminist Romani theatre troupe, Giuvlipen — which means feminism in Romani — Drâgan and her fellow co-founder Romani actress Zita Moldovan recently produced a filmed play, ROMACEN: The Age of the Witch, about Romani cyberwitches who curse fascist politicians with magic and malware and time-travel to try stop the oft-forgotten genocide of Roma and Sinti in World War II.

“I love the Scarlet Witch," Drâgan told Mic, “and Marvel fans always photoshop me as this character.” She added the names of other Romani actresses she would like to see in the role: Simonida and Sandra Selimovic from Austria, Farkas Franciska from Hungary, and Alba Flores from Spain.


Another candidate for Wanda could have been filmmaker Alina Serban, who recently won best actress for her starring role in Gipsy Queen, centering on the life of a Romani woman who boxes to support her children. Boxing is another job that Roma have historically worked in Europe, alongside Jewish people, Black people, and other marginalized groups. Serban’s short film, Letter of Forgiveness, which she wrote, directed, and starred in, won accolades for its depiction of the 500-year-long enslavement of Romani people in the Balkans.

Although WandaVision's Wanda is from the fictional Eastern European country Sokovia, the original comic book versions of Wanda and her brother Pietro face violent persecution for their Romani ethnicity as a major plot point. Particularly in Europe, Roma still face police brutality, systemic racism, disproportionate levels of poverty, and lack of access to clean water housing because of antigypsyism. Including reference to this and hiring talent like Serban would have added depth to the series that, some critics have complained, is lacking.

Representation matters. Wanda’s Romani ethnicity has been well-stated in the comic books, sometimes capturing the discrimination and violence that Roma face, and other times falling flat and stereotypical. Marvel also owes us, as Roma are often rendered as mentally unstable thieves, such as Dr. Doom, Wanda and Pietro’s community, and Wanda herself, and the entertainment giant capitalizes off of these stereotypes, reinforcing them all the while. And let's not forget veteran Marvel writer Peter David’s outrageous claim at a 2016 LGBTQ X-Men panel that Romani representation is fine as it is, because he “learned” on a trip to Romania that Roma cripple their children to make them more effective beggars. Never mind that the kids he saw had a genetic disorder that was untreated because Roma are impoverished and don’t receive equal health care in Europe, because of racism.

In the US, Roma are targeted by “Gypsy police task forces” and face persistent discrimination, as shown in this Harvard Study. But we are not represented in the US Census or in politics, and barely feature in the media. In fact, many Roma in the industry hide their ethnicity if they’re able to and pretend to be something else to avoid repercussions.

Every opportunity we get for accurate and positive representation is essential to us because it shapes the way people understand us. Just because it’s a Halloween headband doesn’t mean it can’t be hurtful.
 
If we're following comics, then around this time, Wanda stopped being romantically involved with Vision. From a storytelling perspective, the whole point of the show is that Wanda needs to end her period of grief and move on from not only Vision's death, but all the suffering she's had to go through. Bringing Vision back is just a terrible way to cap off her arc.
Those are the comics though. I get that there are some element of the comics in the MCU, but they aren't following those plot lines closely (like Thanos's reasoning for wanting to wipeout half of life in the universe), so I wouldn't look too closely to them. It really feels like it would be a waste to get rid of Vision after fleshing his character some more and endearing the audience to him, but if he dies, he dies.
 
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It warms my heart to see Gypsies and comic "accurate" Wandafags absolutely seething over the show. One example comes from this article, but there's a tumblr called scarlet--wiccan who can't stop writing tl;dr essays about how racist and -ist/phobic whatever the show and especially Olsen are (sometimes shitting on Bettany as well for daring to try to cheer his buddy Johnny Depp up after the whole Amber Heard fiasco). The vast majority of people are enjoying a fun and, at times, heartbreaking show that actually tries something different in the superhero genre, but we gotta make it very serious business, you guys!!
Bettany is friends with Johnny Depp and their mad because how dare he stand by a friend and not stab him in the back.
 
Pretty good episode for a series of flashbacks. Well paced, kept the tension high. I definitely think the cameo Paul Bettany was talking about is gonna be Dick Van Dyke. I don't know how it could be anything else at this point given he was Wanda's favourite sitcom star.

The cameo looks to be himself, he was just trolling us.
 
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