Mechanical Keyboard Autism Thread - Because Cherry MX switches get you laid.

[Just Some Other Guy]

Yeah and a lot of this is just going to come down to taste. eg: I haaaaaaaaaaate metallic sounds while typing. Drives me up a wall.

Yeah, at the end of the day it's all about preference.

I did want to try out some blacks, but it never happened.

 

[AmpleApricots]

I do like the tactile feel of buckling springs and cherry browns, (although the browns have that feel just barely) never used cherry blues, although I ordered a lone blue switch from my electronics supplier once on a parts haul just to see what it's like. It felt quite satisfying to press. My impression with these stiffer, tactile switches is though that they can get tiring quickly if you type a whole lot and fast. My Model M I stopped using partially for that reason, it made my hands tired. I've used blacks a lot, I think they work well, not too mushy but also not too stiff, good feel while not getting in your way. The reds feel too mushy for me. This all of course is purely subjective and someone else would probably tell you the exact opposite. I feel the blues could make an appearance in keys you don't press often, like the function keys, making pressing them that bit more satisfying, not sure I'd want them on every key though. Pure luxury without added utility of course.

Also has anyone else searching around on /r/mechanicalkeyboards noticed the amount of posters that admit that they can barely type? Go figure.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

I do like the tactile feel of buckling springs and cherry browns, (although the browns have that feel just barely) never used cherry blues, although I ordered a lone blue switch from my electronics supplier once on a parts haul just to see what it's like. It felt quite satisfying to press. My impression with these stiffer, tactile switches is though that they can get tiring quickly if you type a whole lot and fast. My Model M I stopped using partially for that reason, it made my hands tired. I've used blacks a lot, I think they work well, not too mushy but also not too stiff, good feel while not getting in your way. The reds feel too mushy for me. This all of course is purely subjective and someone else would probably tell you the exact opposite. I feel the blues could make an appearance in keys you don't press often, like the function keys, making pressing them that bit more satisfying, not sure I'd want them on every key though. Pure luxury without added utility of course.

Also has anyone else searching around on /r/mechanicalkeyboards noticed the amount of posters that admit that they can barely type? Go figure.

Wait, are you telling me reddit posters don't actually know how to properly use the stuff they spend so much time and money on, and then post pics of their "collection"?

Now tbf I suck at typing. Never done it properly Then again, I don't go collecting $200 keyboards or expensive/obscure keycaps and go "Look at my wall!"

 

[Bongocat]

I'm a pretty darn average typist, not special by any means... but I do know how to type properly.

If you don't, do yourself a favor and learn how. I went from hunt & peck to touch typist in about 2 months. It's not as difficult as you might expect. I typed out a bunch of pages from Project Gutenberg instead of those dull sample pages they have on typing tutors. Made the process a lot more interesting.

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

I'm a pretty darn average typist, not special by any means... but I do know how to type properly.

If you don't, do yourself a favor and learn how. I went from hunt & peck to touch typist in about 2 months. It's not as difficult as you might expect. I typed out a bunch of pages from Project Gutenberg instead of those dull sample pages they have on typing tutors. Made the process a lot more interesting.

Nah, I don't do work at the computer. It'd be different if I did anything productive at the keyboard.

 

[JoseRaulChupacabra]

I always wanted some decorative keycaps, but about a year ago, when I was about to purchase a set, I cancelled my order last minute and could not push through spending money on colored plastic, which was odd because I incinerated quite a bit of money on more frivolous things just a few years ago.

Is this what it means to get older? I still want them though.

Wait, are you telling me reddit posters don't actually know how to properly use the stuff they spend so much time and money on, and then post pics of their "collection"?

r/mechanicalkeyboards (and the keyboard hobby community in general) is among the most consoomerist places on the web, but one has to admire the amount of productive tism that goes on there. This is one of those markets that the community can actually make a product happen - even if it was a total shit show like the GH60 PCB. I doubt you'd find many hobbies where there are people that can write custom firmwares and such.

But this is the internet, and like with any online community some of the more prominent members have activities that would see them have a thread on the farms had they been more prolific.

If you don't, do yourself a favor and learn how. I went from hunt & peck to touch typist in about 2 months. It's not as difficult as you might expect. I typed out a bunch of pages from Project Gutenberg instead of those dull sample pages they have on typing tutors. Made the process a lot more interesting.

I wish I had known this when I was in college (high school even). I only learned to touch type years after and thought about the amount of time and effort it would have saved. I played 10fastfingers and tried to top my score to accelerate the process, but it only really teaches letters, which, for my purposes, is enough.

 

[stupidpieceofshit]

r/mechanicalkeyboards (and the keyboard hobby community in general) is among the most consoomerist places on the web, but one has to admire the amount of productive tism that goes on there. This is one of those markets that the community can actually make a product happen - even if it was a total shit show like the GH60 PCB. I doubt you'd find many hobbies where there are people that can write custom firmwares and such.

Eh any hobby/community based around products/IP outside of hardcore DYI hobbyists/groups would be heavy consoomerist. Anything computer related will have people able to write firmware/software/drivers/etc around their hobby, much like how there are gearheads who can rebuild engines or build their own cars from "Scratch" (e.g. at one point a few years back you could buy the body tubs of a Willies CJ/MB and build your own Jeep).

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

Eh any hobby/community based around products/IP outside of hardcore DYI hobbyists/groups would be heavy consoomerist. Anything computer related will have people able to write firmware/software/drivers/etc around their hobby, much like how there are gearheads who can rebuild engines or build their own cars from "Scratch" (e.g. at one point a few years back you could buy the body tubs of a Willies CJ/MB and build your own Jeep).

Off topic, but those jeep aftermarket catalogues are a thing of wonder, lol.

 

[AmpleApricots]

In every hobby there's always the posers that don't really know what they're doing but want to belong and the crazies that go way too far and let their entire lives be consumed. Also always the people who need to have everyone know how much they can afford. Lots of people out there trying to fill holes with trinkets. It's not really specific to anything. These keyboard people do waste plastic at an alarming rate though.

Honestly, I just wanted a reliable keyboard. I spend a lot of time at the keyboard so I should have something nice. I liked my relatively cheap small Cherry with the ML switches but the keycaps are cheap and get shiny and oily to the touch very quickly and you cannot replace them and I find it bizarre to buy a new keyboard every time the keys aren't nice anymore. The IBM Model M got one (1) company that makes replacement keycaps and it's expensive for me to order from them and I didn't like the keyboard *that* much for everyday use so I pick something with cherry MX switches now, because I think you'll always get replacement keycaps and switches and that's the two parts that wear down on a keyboard. I don't really care about fancy USB-C cables or backlight or anything like that.

To me it's funny how these communities always develop these specific "chic" trends about how certain things have to be done or have to look like, even if it doesn't even make much sense or is all that practical. It's especially noticeable in this community.

I ended up choosing an US layout (because german layout is whack and I don't like ISO-Return) Cherry G80-1800 new for about 60 eurobucks from a proper store. I really wanted PS/2 for old systems without USB and microcontroller screwery. There's no easy way to convert USB down to PS/2. I figure you could mod one of these keyboard kit microcontrollers (are there open source ones? There probably are) to PS/2 as it is a very simple protocol (the clock is the only trap for newbs) but jeez louise, that'd be a lot of effort and time I don't really want to spend. Actively converting a USB HID to PS/2 was last time I checked non-trivial (somebody might've written an arudino library or something in the meantime, I don't know, I can only really imagine it with latency really) and I didn't want to really deal with that either. Also I really like the look of the 1800. What bothered me a lot about these custom boards is this thin bezel they all have and that you could see the switches from the side with most of them. Really just didn't like the optics of that.

I saw the 1800 often critizised as shoddily constructed, mainly because of the soft plastic case. I don't have the keyboard yet but I feel it's not the problem people think it is. I might report on it when I have it. Same with the Metal plate which usually don't really add much in my experience besides giving keyboards a metal reverb on the keys, which IMO is not a nice sound. I'll think about getting a nice and resistant keycap set because as I said, I'd like to have something nice. I think I'll also enjoy having a numpad again, I did use it sometimes.

 

[JoseRaulChupacabra]

Eh any hobby/community based around products/IP outside of hardcore DYI hobbyists/groups would be heavy consoomerist. Anything computer related will have people able to write firmware/software/drivers/etc around their hobby, much like how there are gearheads who can rebuild engines or build their own cars from "Scratch" (e.g. at one point a few years back you could buy the body tubs of a Willies CJ/MB and build your own Jeep).

Fair point.

To me it's funny how these communities always develop these specific "chic" trends about how certain things have to be done or have to look like, even if it doesn't even make much sense or is all that practical. It's especially noticeable in this community.

I stopped following the keyboard hobby a few years ago and when I did come back, there's an entire classification on how the plate is mounted. Gasket mounts? WTF are those? Not enough to screw it to the case, gotta have gaskets now.

Meanwhile, the wireless HHKB remains the only wireless small form factor board with an actually long battery life. Others seem to top 1 to 2 weeks at most and require a charging cable. At least the wireless HHKB has batteries that you can just pop in and out when they drain. I'd get one but it costs 300 bucks.

 

[melty]

That subreddit is incredibly autistic. I swear anytime I find a subreddit when searching for an answer to something (hobby or not), it's always the same levels of autism. Painting, mechanical keyboards, 3d printing, my old craftsman tablesaw (Yes, there is a subreddit dedicated entirely to Craftsman 113 tablesaw). All the same.

The top all time posts on that subreddit are exactly what you would expect from reddit too.
-Pretty girl holding a keyboard
-Baby with keyboard t-shirt
-Political message on keyboard
-Marriage proposal involving a keyboard

 

[stupidpieceofshit]

The top all time posts on that subreddit are exactly what you would expect from reddit too.
-Pretty girl holding a keyboard
-Baby with keyboard t-shirt
-Political message on keyboard
-Marriage proposal involving a keyboard

To be fair the political message, was a pretty non controversial (provided you were not a politician or an ISP) one for nerds/hard core internet users, that Dem and GOP people supported en mass, unlike <<Current year>> political issues.

 

[malt ipecac]

honestly most of the time I type on my mechs I have headphones on.

I think that's the case for a lot of people. And while I quite like the sound of the purple-stem Topres I currently use, I consider their sound a benefit more to those around me. When you're sharing a home office with others, the use of clicky switches is casus belli.

I'm a pretty darn average typist, not special by any means... but I do know how to type properly.

If you don't, do yourself a favor and learn how. I went from hunt & peck to touch typist in about 2 months. It's not as difficult as you might expect. I typed out a bunch of pages from Project Gutenberg instead of those dull sample pages they have on typing tutors. Made the process a lot more interesting.

I wish I had known this when I was in college (high school even). I only learned to touch type years after and thought about the amount of time and effort it would have saved. I played 10fastfingers and tried to top my score to accelerate the process, but it only really teaches letters, which, for my purposes, is enough.

Are you guys typing in English on qwerty?

Years ago, I decided I needed to fix my unorthodox, unergonomic typing technique by learning to qwerty-touch-type. Some might call my old technique "touch-typing" because I wasn't a hunt-and-pecker and I didn't look at the keyboard when typing, but I certainly wasn't using a conventional home-row technique either; I was using ~3 fingers per hand and moving my wrists around quite a bit to compensate.

I started teaching myself to touch-type using the classic home-row, keyboarding-class style, but after a day or two I got fed up because I felt that the "classic" style didn't offer much (if any) advantage over my previous technique (ex: Why should I default to having my fingers ready to type such rare characters as J and semicolon?).

Do you actually use a home-row technique? And have you noticed it's more comfortable or faster than what you came from?

I ended up choosing an US layout (because german layout is whack and I don't like ISO-Return) Cherry G80-1800 new for about 60 eurobucks from a proper store...I saw the 1800 often critizised as shoddily constructed, mainly because of the soft plastic case. I don't have the keyboard yet but I feel it's not the problem people think it is. I might report on it when I have it. Same with the Metal plate which usually don't really add much in my experience besides giving keyboards a metal reverb on the keys, which IMO is not a nice sound. I'll think about getting a nice and resistant keycap set because as I said, I'd like to have something nice. I think I'll also enjoy having a numpad again, I did use it sometimes.

I think you're right about the construction. For the price of a keyboard with a somewhat-sturdier case, you could buy another 1800 (or two!). If you actually manage to cause the keyboard to fail in some way that's related to the soft plastic case, I'll be shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

I assume you went with black switches?

 

[Bongocat]

Are you guys typing in English on qwerty?

Years ago, I decided I needed to fix my unorthodox, unergonomic typing technique by learning to qwerty-touch-type. Some might call my old technique "touch-typing" because I wasn't a hunt-and-pecker and I didn't look at the keyboard when typing, but I certainly wasn't using a conventional home-row technique either; I was using ~3 fingers per hand and moving my wrists around quite a bit to compensate.

I started teaching myself to touch-type using the classic home-row, keyboarding-class style, but after a day or two I got fed up because I felt that the "classic" style didn't offer much (if any) advantage over my previous technique (ex: Why should I default to having my fingers ready to type such rare characters as J and semicolon?).

Do you actually use a home-row technique? And have you noticed it's more comfortable or faster than what you came from?

English on qwerty, yes.

I get tremendous benefit from homerow, but I'm also a weirdo that uses Vim for everything. I'm probably a bad sample of what benefit the average typist would get.

Spoiler: Autism

I don't actually use the Vim editor itself that much, but I use vim bindings/plugins in every editor that will let me.

 

[Affluent Reptilian]

The one benefit I got out of the thousands of ours I sunk into Everquest as a nerdy child is that it taught me how to type very fast (well, I suppose it innoculated me against WoW, too). Communication was more important in that game than any other.

I wonder how the average WPM speed has increased over time. So many kids type so much more frequently now than in the past. (I expect there's been a correlative decline in quality of handwriting.)

Re the Subreddit for Mech Keyboards - what took me aback with it was just how much of a jump there is in how much people spend between hobbyists and those who are broadly interested but just want a decent keyboard. It doesn't seem like there's a very even cost curve. It jumps from spending $100 or whatever to $400+. And all of the autists on there are spending in the latter category, and if you ask for advice you will get pointed to similar things. (I know there are a few mid-point boards out there like the KeyCool 84 but even they tend to be on the highest side of the gap. The new GMMK Pro might fill things in nicely.)

 

[stupidpieceofshit]

I wonder how the average WPM speed has increased over time. So many kids type so much more frequently now than in the past. (I expect there's been a correlative decline in quality of handwriting.)

In terms of keyboard typing, I wouldn't expect much, it seems most Zoomers and a lot of younger Millenniums only type on phones/touch screen devices. The amount of touch typing (and using caps lock instead of shift for one letter capitalization) I see from younger people is staggering if the "Oh they grew up with computers their entire lives" thing was true.

As far as "evening things out nicely" for price, that is where Ducky is. Their basic stuff is about 100 bucks, the Shine (the flag ship models) are 160-200ish.

 

[Affluent Reptilian]

In terms of keyboard typing, I wouldn't expect much, it seems most Zoomers and a lot of younger Millenniums only type on phones/touch screen devices. The amount of touch typing (and using caps lock instead of shift for one letter capitalization) I see from younger people is staggering if the "Oh they grew up with computers their entire lives" thing was true.

As far as "evening things out nicely" for price, that is where Ducky is. Their basic stuff is about 100 bucks, the Shine (the flag ship models) are 160-200ish.

If only Ducky had a 75%...

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

If only Ducky had a 75%...

numpads get you laid, son.

 

[AmpleApricots]

I think you're right about the construction. For the price of a keyboard with a somewhat-sturdier case, you could buy another 1800 (or two!). If you actually manage to cause the keyboard to fail in some way that's related to the soft plastic case, I'll be shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

I assume you went with black switches?

With Cherry you will get blacks and you will like it. (usually, if not always)

It took me a while to get the keyboard because since the beginning of the pandemic and the other half of the population of this country figuring out that you can also order stuff online, shipping has been hell.

It's really nice, actually. I don't really agree with any of the criticisms leveled. The plastic is soft, but not too soft, it doesn't feel cheap. What I rather want to talk about is the extremely tight manufacturing tolerance of the two case shell halves. There is basically no creaking, even if you press down hard which is pretty cool. That is the kind of production quality you get with a company that mentions in the datasheet of the keyboard in what sizes the palettes with the keyboards come. It's all in one mold, there are no screws in the entire keyboard case, it's all snap fit and the keyboard and controller PCB is held in place that way too. This is probably why the softer plastic was chosen - it's more reliable in this scenario and deals with mechanical stress better, even eventually when the plastic starts warping, which all plastics do. The cantilever snap joints holding the two halves together are very generously designed and IMHO will not break off anytime soon, even if you open the case somewhat often, to clean the keyboard for example. I've seen these designs done very well and very poorly. Done well they can last 30+ years. It's all about the implementation and screws are not always better here in the reliability department, especially not with plastic. Other criticisms I can't really follow but that might be my perspective - The keyboard weights about as much as an item like this should weight and doesn't seem "too light" or "too heavy". The rubber feet hold it in place in all eight directions. The cable is a cable. It plugs into your computer. It sometimes makes sense to do cables a bit more robust depending on their usage scenario and mechanical stress involved, keyboard cables normally don't see much of that though and I've never broken one in my life. I do have to mention though that this case has a very nice molded-in stress relief that's probably there so you won't rip out the JST connector from the PCB if you stumble over the cable, and the stress relief will also survive it from the beefy looks of it. I also like how the controller IC sits on it's own mini board under the keyboard's key PCB, that's a clever use of space. All in all this keyboard is the kind of design you see when some product engineers worked on the same kinds of products for a while, it'll last you, the little things have been thought of and there are no surprises. Also made in the EU, don't see that often these days.

The cherry logo at the top right of the keyboard seems to be etched with laser, then filled in with paint, just like the keycaps. They did the same with the LED legend. Looks good but at least with the keycaps it'll rub eventually off but I wanted to get new ones anyways. In my usage scenario such keycaps last about 2-3 years until the printing starts to look iffy, YMMV of course. If you ever get this keyboard and start looking for new keycaps be aware that it's not entirely standard and not everything will fit.

So yeah this sounds like some kind of review but the shitting on this keyboard by youtubers et al. really rubbed me the wrong way. I don't get money from Cherry!

 

[Bongocat]

Does anybody have experience ordering from KBDFans? Preorders, specifically (not group buy). I've been burned by that before where they say

"oh yeah this'll take 20 days to fulfill."

THEN 8 MONTHS LATER...

I don't even want to bother with it if it's going to be like that.