Mega Rad Gun Thread

[White Devil]

Silencer Shop is doing free eform Form 1s for pistol to SBR amnesty. Think I'm going to do it since it's a free stamp and I've been considering SBRing a few guns anyway.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

Silencer Shop is doing free eform Form 1s for pistol to SBR amnesty. Think I'm going to do it since it's a free stamp and I've been considering SBRing a few guns anyway.

Careful saying that out loud apparently it makes you cuck, according to people who've filled out 4473s before.

Technically silencer shop isn't doing for free the ATF is "waiving" the cost as part of the amnesty.

Personally I'm in the same boat. I've got some stuff I was going to SBR but I'm moving in a few months so I was going to wait. I guess I'll just have to do a change of address.

 

[White Devil]

Careful saying that out loud apparently it makes you cuck, according to people who've filled out 4473s before.

Technically silencer shop isn't doing for free the ATF is "waiving" the cost as part of the amnesty.

Personally I'm in the same boat. I've got some stuff I was going to SBR but I'm moving in a few months so I was going to wait. I guess I'll just have to do a change of address.

Niggers who've only shot a PSA at paper can call me whatever they want, I care not.

I've never used SS infrastructure before but their inhouse advertising for it says the form shit is free through them so I'm assuming it is/was a paid service they offer. I know the tax stamp itself is free. Only thing that chaffs my ass is they're excluding trusts made after the ruling.

 

[Club Sandwich]

something like Sterling 12 Gauge Tornado Slug 2.75" 1oz for cheap

outside of some specific bulk import orders, Turkish ammo is about as cheap as you can get but you have a noticeable sacrifice in quality/consistency/efficacy for that price point. other options might be some old school make-your-own slugs which i don't recommend doing without some guidance and probably isn't going to do you any favors if you screw it up at a public range - or to reload your shotgun hulls with cast lead and cardboard, which is a more standardized method.

I need some suggestions for my first AR. Kind of a one-and-done AR. I'm not the type to collect as many of one type of thing as I can. I just want an all around general purpose rifle, also something I can accessorize as I want. How are S&W AR's? I want to keep it under $1000 if possible. Something with a 16" barrel.

Would it be smart to just get the most basic possible from a reliable brand and then customize how I see fit? While I love my AK and appreciate it for what it is, ordering any kind of accessory for it is a gamble whether or not it's going to even fit.

S&W makes alright AR-15s, their M&P Sport II is pretty standardized in terms of parts and is excellent quality for the money asked.
AKs will always require at least a little fitting of parts - its the nature of the design and manufacturing methods involved unless you dump a lot of money into it. that being said, fitting most parts isn't difficult if you stick to popular patterns and know how to use shims and/or a file. there are many AKs that work perfectly fine as a rifle without really "needing" any additional accessories if you just want a fighting rifle. if you feel deficient with an AK, consider getting better at shooting the AK.

 

[Freedom Fighter]

If 5.7 wasn't so expensive, I'd consider it as a first AR (still thinking about taking a PSA and modding it into a 350 Legend Frankenstein). I like the concept, as the cartridge is capable of hitting 200 yards, and it'd be nice to fit something like a ACOG, which is perfect magnification for such a range, on a well balanced rifle such as a AR chassis 5.7 sprayer. It may be a buck a round, but imagine the pure sex of plinking with one of these- practically no recoil, plenty of range, still has some measure of penetration due to a 16 inch barrel, the thing sounds like heaven

PSA is slated to start selling 5.7 soon. I've heard rumours of 50 cents a round, but nothing super solid.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

Niggers who've only shot a PSA at paper can call me whatever they want, I care not.

I've never used SS infrastructure before but their inhouse advertising for it says the form shit is free through them so I'm assuming it is/was a paid service they offer. I know the tax stamp itself is free. Only thing that chaffs my ass is they're excluding trusts made after the ruling.

Alright I misunderstood but it's good to know they are excluding trusts like that. That's pretty gay.

 

[PFM]

S&W makes alright AR-15s, their M&P Sport II is pretty standardized in terms of parts and is excellent quality for the money asked.
AKs will always require at least a little fitting of parts - its the nature of the design and manufacturing methods involved unless you dump a lot of money into it. that being said, fitting most parts isn't difficult if you stick to popular patterns and know how to use shims and/or a file. there are many AKs that work perfectly fine as a rifle without really "needing" any additional accessories if you just want a fighting rifle. if you feel deficient with an AK, consider getting better at shooting the AK.

It isn't about being deficient with the AK or not, but my particular one has proven to be a pain in the ass if I want to do something as simple as add an optic, and instead of buying a whole new more standardized version, I'll just pick up an AR.

 

[Club Sandwich]

pain in the ass if I want to do something as simple as add an optic

no dovetail? there's some okay dust covers with rails available from Texas Weapons Systems and FAB Defense. PSA offers a decent machined one as well that isn't sheet metal with a rail welded to it. if you do have a dovetail, there are a lot of mounting options if it's standard, sometimes requiring minor fitting there's some oddball ones out there like some guy that installed a VEPR rail onto an AK build he put together. there's some uniqueness with Yugoslavian and Romanian rails as well in type and height, and early kit builders made the mistake of installing an RPK-74N rail on an AKM...

 

[White Devil]

no dovetail? there's some okay dust covers with rails available from Texas Weapons Systems and FAB Defense. PSA offers a decent machined one as well that isn't sheet metal with a rail welded to it. if you do have a dovetail, there are a lot of mounting options if it's standard, sometimes requiring minor fitting there's some oddball ones out there like some guy that installed a VEPR rail onto an AK build he put together. there's some uniqueness with Yugoslavian and Romanian rails as well in type and height, and early kit builders made the mistake of installing an RPK-74N rail on an AKM...

I've read for years that the TWS dog leg doesn't hold zero unless you practically weld it to the receiver.

 

[PFM]

no dovetail? there's some okay dust covers with rails available from Texas Weapons Systems and FAB Defense. PSA offers a decent machined one as well that isn't sheet metal with a rail welded to it. if you do have a dovetail, there are a lot of mounting options if it's standard, sometimes requiring minor fitting there's some oddball ones out there like some guy that installed a VEPR rail onto an AK build he put together. there's some uniqueness with Yugoslavian and Romanian rails as well in type and height, and early kit builders made the mistake of installing an RPK-74N rail on an AKM...

Thanks for the suggestions. One way or another I'm going to get an optic on this fucker. I was going to with RS Regulate mount but who knows when they'll start making them again, so I started looking at Attero Arms Bravo mounts, but now those are out of stock. I'll check out the ones you've listed.

 

[Back me up!]

outside of some specific bulk import orders, Turkish ammo is about as cheap as you can get but you have a noticeable sacrifice in quality/consistency/efficacy for that price point. other options might be some old school make-your-own slugs which i don't recommend doing without some guidance and probably isn't going to do you any favors if you screw it up at a public range - or to reload your shotgun hulls with cast lead and cardboard, which is a more standardized method.

Thanks, any good brand I should look out for that has a decent price/quality ratio? I'm not at the "make my own" point yet.

 

[Smoke Manmuscle]

If 5.7 wasn't so expensive, I'd consider it as a first AR (still thinking about taking a PSA and modding it into a 350 Legend Frankenstein). I like the concept, as the cartridge is capable of hitting 200 yards, and it'd be nice to fit something like a ACOG, which is perfect magnification for such a range, on a well balanced rifle such as a AR chassis 5.7 sprayer. It may be a buck a round, but imagine the pure sex of plinking with one of these- practically no recoil, plenty of range, still has some measure of penetration due to a 16 inch barrel, the thing sounds like heaven

The problem with 5.7 is in order to get every last bit of case capacity and to make it work in a straight P90 mag the body is a cylindrical. All other cartridges have a taper to the case body so once you get it to release it’s not scraping on the chamber sidewall. Now FN solved this by putting a proprietary coating on case to allow for extraction without ripping the case head off. Anyone else who make the round will either need to buy cases from FN (Hornady, federal) or repack FN loaded rounds. Either way FN has everyone over a barrel especially since reloading once fired brass won’t work as the coating gets stripped off when fired and extracted.

Edit to explain case design.

 

[Club Sandwich]

TWS dog leg doesn't hold zero

RS Regulate mount

RS Regulate is very high quality and well worth the money if you don't want to use genuine AKMN compatible gear and deal with sometimes needing to do fitting.

the TWS mount will not hold zero if your rear sight is messed up in some way like missing the leaf spring, or it was widened for the RPK rear sight. you need a fully functional and properly installed/aligned AKM rear sight block with leaf spring and pin.

GG&G and the AK Master Mount are also very good options (i generally recommend GG&G for various shotgun stuff and sometimes other mounts and they've always been well made and well priced). Krebs is also quite good but a bit expensive for comparable options.

good brand I should look out for that has a decent price/quality ratio?

generally i've had decent performance with Fiocchi and the usual suspects of Winchester and Remington, but for decent ammo that's also cheap you can look at Aguila, Estate (might have issues in certain auto loaders), Rio (dirty, crappy plastic hulls that tend to leave shavings over time in every shotgun i've used with them), Black Aces (dirty powders, sometimes weird velocity inconsistency), and lastly Kent (which is decent overall, but at the upper end of "cheap"). personally i just stick with Winchester and Fiocchi and whatever cheap Estate "blasting" ammo might be useful. the rest is a box now and then or if i'm hunting upland and need bismuth or steel or something.

 

[HumptiDouji]

I want to keep it under $1000 if possible. Something with a 16" barrel.

Windham Weaponry have AR15s in that pricerange if you look around, you can get a rifle three times as nice as the M&P-15 for about $800 or $900 or so. Atlantic has some of their rifles for a good price, and Buds has a bunch of offers too, if you look locally you may or may not find comparable pricing in physical stores. The M&P-15 is ok for its price, but if you're willing to spend more, you can get a rifle from Windham which is so much nicer and far better put together.

As an AK guy, a 7.62x39mm AR15 may sound appealing to you, but the fat ass on the cartridge versus the dimensions of the AR15 receiver and BCG inevitably means very thin materials on the bolt. They have a reputation for breaking, unless built with a larger receiver size to accommodate more material, the ones which don't break are usually built using AR10 receivers.
Windham Weaponry may make nice rifles, but I'll assume they aren't using any super alloys at their price range, or that they can defy the laws of physics, so I wouldn't expect their AR15s in that caliber to be any better than others in that regard.

Dissipator rifles are cool, but since they're quirky about reliable functioning, they're almost always 'fakes' with carbine length gas systems under rifle handguards with an added FSB on front. That functions, of course, but having two gasblocks feels too inefficient for me to accept.

I like the concept, as the cartridge is capable of hitting 200 yards

For just plinking (assuming the ammo was cheap), it'd be maybe of less concern, but there's not gonna be a lot of speed left out that far.

Pretty sure the Kenosha Kid used a base-model S&W M&P-15 to clean up the streets there.

Where it just barely pulled through for him in the nick of fucking time, letting him narrowly avoid trepanation by designated drunk. It's not like M&P-15s are widely known for not working, or that you can expect to have to use the assist, but Kenosha as an example of the M&P-15 I think is damning it with faint praise. Shows the value in the forward assist though.

The biggest thing to avoid in Budgettown is polymer lowers that aren't a KP-15. Anything that is injection molded and the same shape as a standard AR-15 lower will break.

Yep. It's a WWSD marketing point, but it's also 100% correct, the classic aluminum lower shape is a horrible geometry for plastics. The buffer sproinging has the buffer tube housing put back and forth flex on the receiver with every cycle, and it breaks by the hole for the rear takedown pin within a couple few hundred rounds.

The vast majority of polymer lowers are an afterthought of a product, they're only good for building a dedicated .22LR rifle. The KP15 and CAV15 lowers integrating a full pistolgrip and stock with the lower is just a million times stronger for these kinds of materials, the buffer tube is far better supported and can put less leverage on a structure which is far stronger.
They're however not that much lighter than typical complete carbine lowers, and if you don't like the A2 stock or grip angle, there's no other options. The rifle can also feel front-heavy if you insist on a thick barrel profile and quad-rail.

I've read for years that the TWS dog leg doesn't hold zero unless you practically weld it to the receiver.

Roughly in line with what I've read and been told. I asked a friend about them since they sounded like a nice idea, he said that it was nice at first, but every time you disassemble the gun for cleaning the fitment wears and gets subtly looser, and you'll probably have to re-zero the rifle afterward. Also that he had to re-zero it after dropping the rifle on the pavement once.
His conclusion was that the original Kalashnikov receiver just wasn't meant for a securely fitting top-cover by any means, and that the sidemount is the only viable option.

 

[White Devil]

Roughly in line with what I've read and been told. I asked a friend about them since they sounded like a nice idea, he said that it was nice at first, but every time you disassemble the gun for cleaning the fitment wears and gets subtly looser, and you'll probably have to re-zero the rifle afterward. Also that he had to re-zero it after dropping the rifle on the pavement once.
His conclusion was that the original Kalashnikov receiver just wasn't meant for a securely fitting top-cover by any means, and that the sidemount is the only viable option.

I've been into AKs for a decade+ and except for the Zenitco system, that's pretty much the truth. All railed dust covers are pretty much suspect and mainly for looks, I've never heard of one that can maintain a zero at all, despite what @Club Sandwich says. I normally bow to his wisdom and experience but his statement in this regard just does not correlate with my experience.

RS Regulate is the best mounting option for optics on AKs, period. They are worth the wait if you cannot find one. I've used all manner of mounting solutions including rear sight replacement ones and they just are not that great. Slavic side mounts are bulky and shitty, requiring weird chin welds. If your AK doesn't have a side rail, like someone mentioned earlier, the AK Master Mount system exists and you can slap an RS Regulate on there just as well as a factory mount.

The only other dust cover solution I've seen that can hold a zero is the hinged dustcovers on Zastava pistols, having had one myself with a pic rail from Stormwerkz riveted between the rear sight and the hinge.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Windham Weaponry have AR15s in that pricerange if you look around, you can get a rifle three times as nice as the M&P-15 for about $800 or $900 or so. Atlantic has some of their rifles for a good price, and Buds has a bunch of offers too, if you look locally you may or may not find comparable pricing in physical stores. The M&P-15 is ok for its price, but if you're willing to spend more, you can get a rifle from Windham which is so much nicer and far better put together.
View attachment 4313826
View attachment 4313893
As an AK guy, a 7.62x39mm AR15 may sound appealing to you, but the fat ass on the cartridge versus the dimensions of the AR15 receiver and BCG inevitably means very thin materials on the bolt. They have a reputation for breaking, unless built with a larger receiver size to accommodate more material, the ones which don't break are usually built using AR10 receivers.
Windham Weaponry may make nice rifles, but I'll assume they aren't using any super alloys at their price range, or that they can defy the laws of physics, so I wouldn't expect their AR15s in that caliber to be any better than others in that regard.
View attachment 4313895
Dissipator rifles are cool, but since they're quirky about reliable functioning, they're almost always 'fakes' with carbine length gas systems under rifle handguards with an added FSB on front. That functions, of course, but having two gasblocks feels too inefficient for me to accept.


For just plinking (assuming the ammo was cheap), it'd be maybe of less concern, but there's not gonna be a lot of speed left out that far.


Where it just barely pulled through for him in the nick of fucking time, letting him narrowly avoid trepanation by designated drunk. It's not like M&P-15s are widely known for not working, or that you can expect to have to use the assist, but Kenosha as an example of the M&P-15 I think is damning it with faint praise. Shows the value in the forward assist though.


Yep. It's a WWSD marketing point, but it's also 100% correct, the classic aluminum lower shape is a horrible geometry for plastics. The buffer sproinging has the buffer tube housing put back and forth flex on the receiver with every cycle, and it breaks by the hole for the rear takedown pin within a couple few hundred rounds.
View attachment 4313868View attachment 4313869View attachment 4313874
The vast majority of polymer lowers are an afterthought of a product, they're only good for building a dedicated .22LR rifle. The KP15 and CAV15 lowers integrating a full pistolgrip and stock with the lower is just a million times stronger for these kinds of materials, the buffer tube is far better supported and can put less leverage on a structure which is far stronger.
They're however not that much lighter than typical complete carbine lowers, and if you don't like the A2 stock or grip angle, there's no other options. The rifle can also feel front-heavy if you insist on a thick barrel profile and quad-rail.


Roughly in line with what I've read and been told. I asked a friend about them since they sounded like a nice idea, he said that it was nice at first, but every time you disassemble the gun for cleaning the fitment wears and gets subtly looser, and you'll probably have to re-zero the rifle afterward. Also that he had to re-zero it after dropping the rifle on the pavement once.
His conclusion was that the original Kalashnikov receiver just wasn't meant for a securely fitting top-cover by any means, and that the sidemount is the only viable option.

Starting with my question, that I know it won't exactly be packing a punch at 200, but range is range, which as you said fun for plinking, and honestly, making you a better shooter of the round.

As for the AR's, that's intriguing with Windfall. Never heard of them but they seem legit. If I'm getting a purely 5.56 AR, I'll admit I'm split between Smith and now these guys, though in my situation PSA is a option sadly lol, especially for a 350 legend project. I'll admit I like the look of the dissapators, and if they work, I couldn't care less what a PSA dissapator clone has under the hood, as long as it shoots. Now a proper clone is different lol.

 

[Smoke Manmuscle]

Starting with my question, that I know it won't exactly be packing a punch at 200, but range is range, which as you said fun for plinking, and honestly, making you a better shooter of the round.

As for the AR's, that's intriguing with Windfall. Never heard of them but they seem legit. If I'm getting a purely 5.56 AR, I'll admit I'm split between Smith and now these guys, though in my situation PSA is a option sadly lol, especially for a 350 legend project. I'll admit I like the look of the dissapators, and if they work, I couldn't care less what a PSA dissapator clone has under the hood, as long as it shoots. Now a proper clone is different lol.

If I remember correctly Windham was formed by former bushmaster engineers after bushmaster was bought out. They are comparable to old bushmaster quality.

 

[Club Sandwich]

I've never heard of one that can maintain a zero at all, despite what @Club Sandwich says

i guess "fully functioning rear sight block" isn't really clear on my part, which is my bad. some dust cover rail options do hold zero when shooting from a bench or typical course of fire, but won't hold up as a fighting rifle. many are not ideal options if you plan on being a bit rough because the failure point is usually at the rear sight block where a lot of these types of mounts have a pin or something as well as how it's attached (or just floating!) at the rear of the receiver. one of the big issues here is that the AKM dust cover was never intended for any sort of optic mount. the FAL you can get away with since there is a groove to hold the cover in place precisely and rigidly. the FAL STANAG scope mount has additional reinforcement on the interior as well as different geometry (if you use a G1 or StG style mount vs the BSA style) offering great stability with a narrower profile. it's still prone to damage if dropped, and so the dust cover itself could be swapped with one from spares and screwed into place.

i do stand by that the TWS (and most other dust cover mounts) do function and hold zero for the average shooter, but they aren't good if you're using it on a fighting rifle, which is why i was hoping to push an more standard AKMN mount or one of the other dovetail mounts from RS Regulate, et c.

one of the few times i've seen a dust cover optic mount used in a rough and ready manner was on (as already mentioned) Zenitco B-33 equipped rifles, which completely replace the dust cover and use arms that connect to the B-19 forend and a locking piece at the front. they have a unique recoil rod assembly as well offering increased stability and very tight lock up (tight enough that it is legitimately annoying to remove).

as someone also mentioned about "fireball" AR-15s or 7.62x39mm ARs, bolt breakage can sort of be avoided with very careful tuning, much like the 9mm Colt SMG, but really a better platform or a purpose built platform is ideal. even the Finnish Army Trials AR-10 in 7.62x39mm suffered from bolt breakage. i've had the most success with a combination of careful tuning, a widened/modified ramp and modified chamber with the Young Manufacturing or LMT bolts which seem to last quite a while.

If I'm getting a purely 5.56 AR, I'll admit I'm split between Smith and now these guys, though in my situation PSA is a option sadly lol, especially for a 350 legend project.

Windham is old Bushmaster and quite good, S&W is also pretty good, pick whichever you get a better price on, IMHO.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

So apparently foreign made braced pistols aren't eligible to become SBRs because of 922(r) compliance.

Also on AK railed dust covers it'll be interesting to see how the MidWest industries one does.

 

[DocAwe]

i guess "fully functioning rear sight block" isn't really clear on my part, which is my bad. some dust cover rail options do hold zero when shooting from a bench or typical course of fire, but won't hold up as a fighting rifle. many are not ideal options if you plan on being a bit rough because the failure point is usually at the rear sight block where a lot of these types of mounts have a pin or something as well as how it's attached (or just floating!) at the rear of the receiver. one of the big issues here is that the AKM dust cover was never intended for any sort of optic mount. the FAL you can get away with since there is a groove to hold the cover in place precisely and rigidly. the FAL STANAG scope mount has additional reinforcement on the interior as well as different geometry (if you use a G1 or StG style mount vs the BSA style) offering great stability with a narrower profile. it's still prone to damage if dropped, and so the dust cover itself could be swapped with one from spares and screwed into place.

i do stand by that the TWS (and most other dust cover mounts) do function and hold zero for the average shooter, but they aren't good if you're using it on a fighting rifle, which is why i was hoping to push an more standard AKMN mount or one of the other dovetail mounts from RS Regulate, et c.

one of the few times i've seen a dust cover optic mount used in a rough and ready manner was on (as already mentioned) Zenitco B-33 equipped rifles, which completely replace the dust cover and use arms that connect to the B-19 forend and a locking piece at the front. they have a unique recoil rod assembly as well offering increased stability and very tight lock up (tight enough that it is legitimately annoying to remove).

as someone also mentioned about "fireball" AR-15s or 7.62x39mm ARs, bolt breakage can sort of be avoided with very careful tuning, much like the 9mm Colt SMG, but really a better platform or a purpose built platform is ideal. even the Finnish Army Trials AR-10 in 7.62x39mm suffered from bolt breakage. i've had the most success with a combination of careful tuning, a widened/modified ramp and modified chamber with the Young Manufacturing or LMT bolts which seem to last quite a while.


Windham is old Bushmaster and quite good, S&W is also pretty good, pick whichever you get a better price on, IMHO.

I still think the best bet for an x39 AR type is the cmmg mutant.
But I understand that's a little more expensive and we're starting to get a bit proprietary.