Mega Rad Gun Thread

[WhoBusTank69]

I genuinely believe the Founding Fathers would have phrased it differently if they'd thought anyone would be dumb enough to try to ban or restrict firearms wholesale. I think, having just gone through a war for independence, they simply assumed no one in the US would try to take away the tools they'd just finished using to secure that freedom.

The US had been a very martial country up until a combination of the draft and boomer hippies dismantled the sentiment during the Vietnam War. Add to that the marxist subversion of community and politics now nobody trusts one another and we've currently got a perfect setup for balkanization prevented by just enough understanding to know how bad that can get.

But anyway

 

[AGPinochet]

Either way, it's technically correct. It's the first time in a long time that an actual, technically possible legal pathway has existed for getting rid of the NFA. T

GOA and Co. Have already filed a lawsuit against ATF and while I haven't looked into the actual filing itself word on the digital street is that their argument is going to be "Since the taxation portion of NFA Regulations has been abolished for SBR/S's, Suppressors and AOW's the Government's regulation of them in their current form is unconstitutional based on a Supreme Court Precedent from 1937"
But an actual legal battle is much different than a DOJ capitulation.

they start at around the $600

Many of them are only that high due to (and yes I know I keep repeating this)
1. Low sales volume (can't sell 1000 suppressors for $300 per so you have to sell 500 for $600 per)
2. linked to above, relatively low quantities are being manufactured and many of those that are being made are not being done so cheaply as burdensome regulations necessitate suppressors be overbuilt and long lasting. This also prevents bulk discounts of on material orders which manufacturers depending on their mindset could pass onto consumers, lowering prices leading to higher sales

 

[quaawaa]

Well the problem with this line of reasoning is that the second amendment wasn't created around the concept of home defense but rather national defense. I can concede your point but I think the entire framing of the argument is wrong, not to sound like a boog boy larper or whatever.

Which is why it should be legal to own a SAM. If Biden sends his F-16s to oppress the people, the people should be able to shoot them down.

 

[Club Sandwich]

maybe i should buy Chang's dirt cheap stamping machine since China's domestic manufacturing is post-apocalyptic right now. $3700 + shipping + tax for a stamping machine to crank out dirt cheap suppressors from 1mm steel sheets to the point where they're $50 or less sounds like a fun project. i'm thinking stamped/rolled/welded steel sleeve over a series of stamped steel and ball-pressed Maxim-style conical baffles, then use the lathe to center drill and align everything. approved paperwork and $50 plus shipping. cheap black oxide finish on everything, direct thread only for 1/2"-28. think of it like the industrialized manufacture of engine mufflers. to make it really cheap, i can skip welding the baffles themselves and just fold them into shape to provide convolutions.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

GOA and Co. Have already filed a lawsuit against ATF

https://x.com/GunOwners/status/1941304577183416643 (A)
Lawsuit PDF

Plaintiffs include some guy in Texas, Palmetto State Armory, SilencerShop, and B&T. If it isn't thrown out on the basis of "lol, no" it's a glorified free throw; let's hope the attorney(s) aren't as bad as Shaquille O'Neal.

 

[Bogliacci]

So several years ago I paid a guy to make me a reproduction of the big Bowie knife from the movie Predator. Sadly I never got my knife and the maker dropped off the face of the earth with my money. Fast forward to a couple days ago and he messages me saying he has a full refund ready for me and needs my address. The next day he messages again with photos of an envelope with a label that has my name and address on it, and a receipt with a tracking number. So if things are going as well as they are, then I should hopefully have my money back soon. I think I'm going to roll it into one of my current projects. Most likely an EOTech for my Vector.

I just seent a vector FRT so you better be slapping one of those babies in it

 

[Rainbow Idiot]

maybe i should buy Chang's dirt cheap stamping machine since China's domestic manufacturing is post-apocalyptic right now. $3700 + shipping + tax for a stamping machine to crank out dirt cheap suppressors from 1mm steel sheets to the point where they're $50 or less sounds like a fun project. i'm thinking stamped/rolled/welded steel sleeve over a series of stamped steel and ball-pressed Maxim-style conical baffles, then use the lathe to center drill and align everything. approved paperwork and $50 plus shipping. cheap black oxide finish on everything, direct thread only for 1/2"-28. think of it like the industrialized manufacture of engine mufflers. to make it really cheap, i can skip welding the baffles themselves and just fold them into shape to provide convolutions.

For a .22 can at that price I'd buy 2-3 instead of my half baked 3d printed baffles idea.

 

[Internet-Based Lobotomy]

Many of them are only that high due to (and yes I know I keep repeating this)
1. Low sales volume (can't sell 1000 suppressors for $300 per so you have to sell 500 for $600 per)
2. linked to above, relatively low quantities are being manufactured and many of those that are being made are not being done so cheaply as burdensome regulations necessitate suppressors be overbuilt and long lasting. This also prevents bulk discounts of on material orders which manufacturers depending on their mindset could pass onto consumers, lowering prices leading to higher sales

Sure, however I also don't think $200 of savings is going to get manufacturers to increase their productivity to meet the demand to see that price driven down any time soon. But maybe I'm wrong and the only thing holding back NFA hopefuls was simple the high cost barrier of entry. A whole $200.

Which is why it should be legal to own a SAM. If Biden sends his F-16s to oppress the people, the people should be able to shoot them down.

I'm aware that the tactical McNuke materializes along the way but I can assure you that America would invade America if they even suspected that America was even close to capable of having a deterrent. I'm talking B2 bombers over Moscow. Moscow, Idaho. We'd have American boots on the ground in Palestine. Palestine, Texas.

 

[Broken Talisman]

I'm aware that the tactical McNuke materializes along the way but I can assure you that America would invade America if they even suspected that America was even close to capable of having a deterrent. I'm talking B2 bombers over Moscow. Moscow, Idaho. We'd have American boots on the ground in Palestine. Palestine, Texas.

I'll finally get to watch London burn. Unfortunately it'll be London, KY.

 

[Bassomatic]

Is it just a build night/class? If you've already assembled a couple of ARs and it either went smoothly or you learned what not to do already, I'm not sure what you'd get out of the experience that you haven't already figured out - as you noted, it's not hard and the tools are all readily available and not particularly expensive. The only thing that I have that isn't a "well no shit you're going to need one of those" tool for AR building is this super long roll pin starter punch, which is specifically for installing the bolt catch pin without marring the lower.

That said, it's an opportunity to hang out and shoot the shit with a bunch of people building rifles, which could make it potentially worthwhile as a social event, so why not?

I'm actually medically retarded, I mean I post here... so it should show. But, I'm going to meet him tomorrow to buy some ammo and me being a lazy fuck have a polish job done on my bulgi mak... I just don't want to work on it... It's a long story but a simple polish job, I'll pay before I get fussy. Yes I know how to but long story I'l spare ya'll..

I'll see what it is, because I'd like to do a class learn to do it "right" meet gun people but I built a few.. I don't want to sit with some zoomies and boomers with poverty pony saying "basically I'm a SEAL RANGER NOW" either way I'm going to check it.. He's a good dude and I'd love to help but I'd like to learn. I think being humble matters. Just beacuse I slapped a few junkers together I am not Mark Larue. I am noT KAC etc...

Also I'm getting old fuck. That's in the words of the Marine Sniper spec op... GAY AND UNREALISTIC

 

[Geoff Capes Vapes Apes]

Sure, however I also don't think $200 of savings is going to get manufacturers to increase their productivity to meet the demand to see that price driven down any time soon. But maybe I'm wrong and the only thing holding back NFA hopefuls was simple the high cost barrier of entry. A whole $200.

Here in England I can buy new rimfire suppressors for the equivalent of $75, centrefire start about $250. There's also a thriving trade in used ones which can sometimes go as low as $30 for a reasonable quality screw-on .308 mod, a second hand rimfire mod you can't give away.

For something Gucci, I paid roughly $800 for an ASE Utra SL-7iBL including the mounting solution (their BoreLock muzzle brake) which makes my .308 silly quiet with match ammo, at some point I'll load some subs for it.

I've just looked the numbers up, in Britain we have roughly 1/3rd of rifles suppressed, US figures are in the 5 million suppressors Vs around 200 million rifles and pistols, to give an idea of relative market penetration when it's no harder to get a can than a gun.

 

[The Dude]

I just seent a vector FRT so you better be slapping one of those babies in it

All in good time. I still need to get the laser engraving and buy the stock for it, and the stock that I want for it (Lingle ExoLock) currently isn't...in stock.

 

[Pretend To Imagine]

I think most peoples issue with NFA items are the passport and fingerprint requirement, because whenever I thought about getting a SBR I'd always get turned off by the idea of having to go out of my way to acquire those. Sure some FFLs now offer those services in house but for the average person I'm sure they think "why the fuck does the ATF need this from me?" and just don't like that idea. It is a pretty retarded requirement honestly and if you're in a small town you pretty much have to go out of your way for photos if your local post office, walmart, or pharmacy even offer it and then take a trip to your local police station for fingerprints where they usually take you to processing next to all the degenerates. If those two requirements went away and the $200 was still up I think more people would go for it.

Until 2014 you could do a trust and did not need to submit photo or fingerprints.

 

[S.C.U.D.]

Many of them are only that high due to (and yes I know I keep repeating this)
1. Low sales volume (can't sell 1000 suppressors for $300 per so you have to sell 500 for $600 per)
2. linked to above, relatively low quantities are being manufactured and many of those that are being made are not being done so cheaply as burdensome regulations necessitate suppressors be overbuilt and long lasting. This also prevents bulk discounts of on material orders which manufacturers depending on their mindset could pass onto consumers, lowering prices leading to higher sales

To wit, the price of a Maxim Silencer in 1934 right before NFA passage was $7 for a .22 silencer and $9 for a .30 cal silencer. According to this website, the prices today would be:


Now, that's not the full story of course. There's lots of stuff that should be cheap due to inflation but mysteriously cost more than just the raw inflation numbers, like a Big Mac is anywhere from 30-50 cents more than what it should be with inflation depending on the market. So there's maybe a 10-20% base increase, but on the other hand we have more advanced manufacturing techniques now that helps make things easier to manufacture, so that could help balance it out in a way too. The point is silencers could easily be in the $200-$300 range if they weren't NFA.

 

[Friedrich Hayek's Ghost]

The US had been a very martial country up until a combination of the draft and boomer hippies dismantled the sentiment during the Vietnam War. Add to that the marxist subversion of community and politics now nobody trusts one another and we've currently got a perfect setup for balkanization prevented by just enough understanding to know how bad that can get.

I'm surprised mandatory military service never took off. I don't remember hearing any protests about the draft prior to Vietnam, but the draft is a poor stopgap. It only really works if we have early warning and enough standing troops for the drafted personnel to get mustered, trained, and deployed. Mandatory military service is a more sensible solution, if you're already okay with pressing citizens into the military. I wonder how that would have affected gun laws, if it had become the standard. Probably off-topic.

GOA and Co. Have already filed a lawsuit against ATF and while I haven't looked into the actual filing itself word on the digital street is that their argument is going to be "Since the taxation portion of NFA Regulations has been abolished for SBR/S's, Suppressors and AOW's the Government's regulation of them in their current form is unconstitutional based on a Supreme Court Precedent from 1937"
But an actual legal battle is much different than a DOJ capitulation.

I tried to hedge my language with that one. Politics have gotten so goddamn weird that I've no longer any idea how things will shake out from here, but I do know that it's been a long time since there was a viable pathway to getting rid of the damn thing. Now, it's just up to the lawyers to read and apply the law appropriately, and I've no clue whether they will or not. Oglethorpe had the right idea, I think.

 

[big pauper]

It's $200 on top of the suppressor, and the mounting solution.

Also I have bad news if you've ever paid for anything gun related with a debit or credit card.

I'm all for minimizing a paper trail the government can see at any opportunity but the credit card companies and government are an entirely different fortress of authority that are straight up adversarial to each other. you already know they will take any opportunity they can to screw you over so it's kind of absurd to assume that the hyper-aggressive hyper-authoritarian payment processors that have no problems shutting things down if they think it will expose them to any level of uncalculated risk are actually secretly helping out government for no benefit to themselves.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

I'm surprised mandatory military service never took off. I don't remember hearing any protests about the draft prior to Vietnam, but the draft is a poor stopgap. It only really works if we have early warning and enough standing troops for the drafted personnel to get mustered, trained, and deployed. Mandatory military service is a more sensible solution, if you're already okay with pressing citizens into the military. I wonder how that would have affected gun laws, if it had become the standard. Probably off-topic.

People protested the draft as far back as WW1 and by the time they activated it again for Korea people were just dead tired of being grabbed and shipped off to some place they've never heard of before. With our insistence on getting involved in Vietnam it seemed to be the final straw.
I know a lot of boomers too young to have gone to Vietnam that have an irrational hatred of the US Military, lots of it to do with union/blue collar workers who think the pay and benefits for veterans are too high. The 1970s and onwards were a complicated time with lots of change; lots of good men dead and the not so good had a boost in population.

 

[Romulus augustulus]

People protested the draft as far back as WW1

The draft riots during the Civil war were wild. the army was gunning people down in the streets, Cavarly troopers were cutting down anyone who ran away and the navy was bombarding Five points.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

The draft riots during the Civil war were wild. the army was gunning people down in the streets, Cavarly troopers were cutting down anyone who ran away and the navy was bombarding Five points.

Yeah that skipped my mind somehow. Turns out people don't particularly enjoy being sent off to war.

 

[The Dude]

I'm surprised mandatory military service never took off.

My guess would be with the way TPTB have attempted to navigate US society towards a softer, more egalitarian "progressive" culture and make traditionally aggressive masculinity a negative thing, "They" were afraid of an already armed population being not only more effective with their weapons, but also have the combat tactics training to use those weapons effectively. Mandatory military service is fine for a country where the owning of weapons is strictly limited or banned outright, but for a country like the US where there are enough privately owned firearms to arm every man, woman, and child? I'm sure that TPTB in their infinite distrust of the average citizen were paranoid that it would be a recipe for revolution if implemented.

And then there is the -*ahem*..."multicultural" aspect of America. Mandatory military service is a great way to train "certain demographics" who are more prone to violence and crime to become more effective in those acts. Instead of your stereotypical Basketball-American holden dey GLOCK fo-tay wit da switch sideways and above their head, mag dumping in the rough general direction of the other young scholar they are trying to zero, you would instead have them becoming far more deadly because they would now know proper firearms handling and marksmanship, and that those funny little bumps with dots sticking up from the slide are actually used for aiming the weapon so the bullets will actually hit what you want them to.

If we were ever to become a high trust society full of civilized men once again then Mandatory Service might make sense. Until then, having a professional volunteer military force with the option of the draft should things become truly dire makes more sense for the kind of culture we currently have.