Mega Rad Gun Thread

[AGPinochet]

I had a realization last night before bed. SB Tactical is largely obsolete now. I have no insight on their financials but I can say with confidence at least 90% of their sales are braces, why pay $100 for an SBA3 when you can do an E-form Form 1 and buy a Magpul CTR for $40. Sure some places don't allow SBR's but allow braced pistols and some people will refuse to SBR their guns but SB tactical is (and this is pulling a number out of my ass) facing a lets say 80% drop in sales over the next few years (if not the next few months).

They're going to have to pivot hard.

Also, this isn't as hyped as Suppressors/SBR/S's but AOW's also got their manufacture tax dropped to $0, methinks there is potential for some really goofy stuff to have a slight resurgence. Cane Guns, Flashlight guns, Cellphone guns, weird stuff that doesn't fall under the definition of other NFA Categories.
Just think of all the possibilities.

I just had another realization, it's now like 100% less arduous to make a masterkey equipped AR as long as you can sort out mounting.

Since I'm already writing this post I thought I'd do a little stream of consciousness rambling about theoretical impacts on suppressor pricing due to increase demand spurred by $0 transfer fees

Suppressor are comparatively niche items produced in relatively small quantities sold to relatively few people (and many of them are repeat buyers) and as any economics textbook will tell you products produced in small quantities will almost universally have a higher per unit price than those produced in large quantities.
Take Rimfire suppressors for example, the current cheapest .22 can on Silencershop is $219(and that uses disposable polymer baffles and the next cheapest metal baffle model is $285), but is in actuality $419. Many Rimfire cans are monocore and those that aren't use machined baffles. With a $200 discount on all suppressors and short wait times it now makes economic sense to not only increase production of high quality machined baffle models (lowering price per unit) but potentially investing in a stamping setup to drive per unit price for an individual baffle to the floor (I don't think it would be impossible for an already existing Stamping house to start acting as an OEM for suppressor companies), obviously decreasing unit price and thus increasing sales. Increased sales naturally has a correlation with increased ownership and increased ownership builds a political will for complete deregulation.

Very soon, you'll be able to have a suppressed, short barreled AR-15 with forced reset capability and pay $0 in tax stamps.

Also
@The Dude
Guess what, It's Christmas in July
Finally the Vector will be able to do what is was designed to

 

[WhoBusTank69]

why

The $200 wasn't the deterrent and people who claim it was already have NFA items which is why they're so eager to fill out more paperwork.

 

[AGPinochet]

The $200 wasn't the deterrent and people who claim it was already have NFA items which is why they're so eager to fill out more paperwork.

"The $3000 price tag for one of those newfangled portable telephones isn't a deterrent towards purchasing"
Cheaper products sell in higher volumes

 

[WhoBusTank69]

"The $3000 price tag for one of those newfangled portable telephones isn't a deterrent towards purchasing"
Cheaper products sell in higher volumes

You forget that it isn't $3000, it's $200, and you left out that it earns you a privileged spot on a concrete registry that nobody will guarantee will be discarded if the NFA is abolished.
I'm not desperate to discard my dignity so quickly.

 

[TerminalTryHard]

You forget that it isn't $3000, it's $200, and you left out that it earns you a privileged spot on a concrete registry that nobody will guarantee will be discarded if the NFA is abolished.
I'm not desperate to discard my dignity so quickly.

It's $200 on top of the suppressor, and the mounting solution.

Also I have bad news if you've ever paid for anything gun related with a debit or credit card.

 

[quaawaa]

3.Formageddon
What is "Formageddon"? Formageddon is a hypothesized event that I literally just made up that is theoretically forecasted to begin as early as Midnight on New Year's eve 2025. It's start date cannot be accurately pinpointed because it is dependant on how lazy the ATF is on preparing the E-forms system for a deluge tens if not hundreds of thousands of Form 1's and 4's (and whether or not the fiscal quarter language has been retained in the bill), stress on the system could be further exacerbated by every Silencershop Kiosk in the country being besieged on New Years Day. Formageddon could realistically last until February or March of 2026. Think of it, how many Suppressor virgins are tucking away cash for that OCL, Surefire or CAT they're eyeing? Thousands, tens of thousands, A few months from now, maybe even hundreds of thousands

If the rumors about Rep. Clyde making a deal with Trump to stop blocking the BBB in return for the DOJ signing a consent decree with the firearm law firms are true, then "Formageddon" will never happen.

why pay $100 for an SBA3 when you can do an E-form Form 1

Because tons of people don't want to register their guns with the government and notify them every time they cross state lines. The tax hasn't been the barrier to people not having SBRs since inflation make $200 a token amount.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

It's $200 on top of the suppressor, and the mounting solution.

You forgot shipping and handling, and the processing fees. And gasoline for transit. McDonald's was on the way, can't forget that. Also new tires because they probably got worn out from the drive to the FFL.

Also I have bad news if you've ever paid for anything gun related with a debit or credit card.

I made sure to send the ATF a strongly worded letter saying that my card company was lying about it. I hope they can't see the swear words I scribbled out.

 

[S.C.U.D.]

$200 is annoying but it's not what prevents me from owning NFA guns (especially when it's $200 on top of thousands and thousands of dollars for a machine gun), it's registering them. Until I don't have to register them I will simply not own NFA items. Firearm registration is morally repugnant and if there's something I very strongly dislike I will not participate in it.

 

[Pretend To Imagine]

$200 is annoying but it's not what prevents me from owning NFA guns (especially when it's $200 on top of thousands and thousands of dollars for a machine gun), it's registering them. Until I don't have to register them I will simply not own NFA items. Firearm registration is morally repugnant and if there's something I very strongly dislike I will not participate in it.

Either way the government still wins, the only difference is wether you have the thing they don’t want you to have.

 

[The Dude]

So several years ago I paid a guy to make me a reproduction of the big Bowie knife from the movie Predator. Sadly I never got my knife and the maker dropped off the face of the earth with my money. Fast forward to a couple days ago and he messages me saying he has a full refund ready for me and needs my address. The next day he messages again with photos of an envelope with a label that has my name and address on it, and a receipt with a tracking number. So if things are going as well as they are, then I should hopefully have my money back soon. I think I'm going to roll it into one of my current projects. Most likely an EOTech for my Vector.

 

[AGPinochet]

DOJ signing a consent decree with the firearm law

Based on my understanding of Consent Decrees between the Feds and various Southern government and law enforcement entities are you saying that there is allegedly a deal in the works for 2A Legal groups to have significant powers of decision and review over firearms policy at the DOJ
Also is this rumor from a Facebook group or from one or more relevant Insiders.

notify them every time they cross state lines.

Most people who travel outside of their home states won't ever do so with NFA items in tow and you can claim you'll be leaving for like a year long period on a 5320.20
And while I don't advocate breaking the law I have never once heard of someone getting pinched for not filing one.

 

[Akran]

I think most peoples issue with NFA items are the passport and fingerprint requirement, because whenever I thought about getting a SBR I'd always get turned off by the idea of having to go out of my way to acquire those. Sure some FFLs now offer those services in house but for the average person I'm sure they think "why the fuck does the ATF need this from me?" and just don't like that idea. It is a pretty retarded requirement honestly and if you're in a small town you pretty much have to go out of your way for photos if your local post office, walmart, or pharmacy even offer it and then take a trip to your local police station for fingerprints where they usually take you to processing next to all the degenerates. If those two requirements went away and the $200 was still up I think more people would go for it.

 

[quaawaa]

Based on my understanding of Consent Decrees between the Feds and various Southern government and law enforcement entities are you saying that there is allegedly a deal in the works for 2A Legal groups to have significant powers of decision and review over firearms policy at the DOJ

The idea is that the FPC/whoever sues the feds in a friendly court like the 5th Circuit, arguing that a zero dollar tax can't possible be a tax and therefore the whole basis for the NFA is wrong and that the law should be overturned. Trump's DOJ will refuse to defend this and will tell the judge that they agree with the plaintiffs' interpretation of the law. The friendly judge will sign off on this and overturn the law. Since the DOJ won't appeal it to the Supreme Court, the ruling will stand.

This is how Affirmative Action and practically every environmental regulation was created: leftist NGO sues Democrat administration in a Democrat court, the feds agree with the NGO, and the judge "forces" the government to do what the NGO wants.

 

[AGPinochet]

The idea is that the FPC/whoever sues the feds in a friendly court like the 5th Circuit, arguing that a zero dollar tax can't possible be a tax and therefore the whole basis for the NFA is wrong and that the law should be overturned. Trump's DOJ will refuse to defend this and will tell the judge that they agree with the plaintiffs' interpretation of the law. The friendly judge will sign off on this and overturn the law. Since the DOJ won't appeal it to the Supreme Court, the ruling will stand.

This is how Affirmative Action and practically every environmental regulation was created: leftist NGO sues Democrat administration in a Democrat court, the feds agree with the NGO, and the judge "forces" the government to do what the NGO wants.

Sounds great, but is this baseless speculation from anonymous posters on social media or whispers from people in the know

 

[Friedrich Hayek's Ghost]

Sounds great, but is this baseless speculation from anonymous posters on social media or whispers from people in the know

Either way, it's technically correct. It's the first time in a long time that an actual, technically possible legal pathway has existed for getting rid of the NFA. The BBB didn't include machine guns or destructive devices, to my knowledge, so those are probably going to be a sticking point. I doubt we'll ever see the legalization of something like the home defense M79, but, frankly, the average citizen has little practical need for those. If the law isn't repealed entirely, it would probably only be left with MGs and DDs on it. Either way, I suspect laws restricting AOWs like cane guns, pen guns, et cetera, would probably be passed in fairly short order. I don't think the average person would need much persuading on those. Mark Serbu is going to be sobbing into a pile of money from all the Super Shortys he's going to sell, though.

To clarify, I don't think you should have a practical need for something to be allowed to own it, but I find restrictions on things few people were going to do anyway less grating, albeit not less morally objectionable, than things I think large numbers of people would do if it were legal.

 

[Internet-Based Lobotomy]

It's $200 on top of the suppressor, and the mounting solution.

Which is basically peanuts at that point unless you're getting a super cheap adapter or diy solution. I don't think $200 is breaking anyone's suppressor budget when they start at around the $600 mark and silencer shop even offers to pay the tax for you.

Like the home defense M79, but, frankly, the average citizen has little practical need for those.

Well the problem with this line of reasoning is that the second amendment wasn't created around the concept of home defense but rather national defense. I can concede your point but I think the entire framing of the argument is wrong, not to sound like a boog boy larper or whatever.

I think most peoples issue with NFA items are the passport and fingerprint requirement, because whenever I thought about getting a SBR I'd always get turned off by the idea of having to go out of my way to acquire those. Sure some FFLs now offer those services in house but for the average person I'm sure they think "why the fuck does the ATF need this from me?" and just don't like that idea. It is a pretty retarded requirement honestly and if you're in a small town you pretty much have to go out of your way for photos if your local post office, walmart, or pharmacy even offer it and then take a trip to your local police station for fingerprints where they usually take you to processing next to all the degenerates. If those two requirements went away and the $200 was still up I think more people would go for it.

Reminder that all this is just so you can put a stock on your "pistol with a brace".

 

[Friedrich Hayek's Ghost]

Well the problem with this line of reasoning is that the second amendment wasn't created around the concept of home defense but rather national defense. I can concede your point but I think the entire framing of the argument is wrong, not to sound like a boog boy larper or whatever.

I know. The language of the amendment is pretty clear what it's for, but it's no longer thought of that way. It's consistently framed entirely as personal ownership for personal use, and, frankly, that framing is beneficial for gun owners in that it removes the expectation of any kind of mandated militia organization. It's also been a tremendous detriment, because the average person thinks everyone but them is retarded and wants to keep anything they see as potentially dangerous away from retards, with the exception of state-sanctioned contexts like the military or police. Probably a wash, on balance.

I genuinely believe the Founding Fathers would have phrased it differently if they'd thought anyone would be dumb enough to try to ban or restrict firearms wholesale. I think, having just gone through a war for independence, they simply assumed no one in the US would try to take away the tools they'd just finished using to secure that freedom.

 

[WhoBusTank69]

I genuinely believe the Founding Fathers would have phrased it differently if they'd thought anyone would be dumb enough to try to ban or restrict firearms wholesale. I think, having just gone through a war for independence, they simply assumed no one in the US would try to take away the tools they'd just finished using to secure that freedom.

The US had been a very martial country up until a combination of the draft and boomer hippies dismantled the sentiment during the Vietnam War. Add to that the marxist subversion of community and politics now nobody trusts one another and we've currently got a perfect setup for balkanization prevented by just enough understanding to know how bad that can get.

But anyway

 

[AGPinochet]

Either way, it's technically correct. It's the first time in a long time that an actual, technically possible legal pathway has existed for getting rid of the NFA. T

GOA and Co. Have already filed a lawsuit against ATF and while I haven't looked into the actual filing itself word on the digital street is that their argument is going to be "Since the taxation portion of NFA Regulations has been abolished for SBR/S's, Suppressors and AOW's the Government's regulation of them in their current form is unconstitutional based on a Supreme Court Precedent from 1937"
But an actual legal battle is much different than a DOJ capitulation.

they start at around the $600

Many of them are only that high due to (and yes I know I keep repeating this)
1. Low sales volume (can't sell 1000 suppressors for $300 per so you have to sell 500 for $600 per)
2. linked to above, relatively low quantities are being manufactured and many of those that are being made are not being done so cheaply as burdensome regulations necessitate suppressors be overbuilt and long lasting. This also prevents bulk discounts of on material orders which manufacturers depending on their mindset could pass onto consumers, lowering prices leading to higher sales

 

[quaawaa]

Well the problem with this line of reasoning is that the second amendment wasn't created around the concept of home defense but rather national defense. I can concede your point but I think the entire framing of the argument is wrong, not to sound like a boog boy larper or whatever.

Which is why it should be legal to own a SAM. If Biden sends his F-16s to oppress the people, the people should be able to shoot them down.