Mega Rad Gun Thread

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Boney said:
It is in fact horse shit.
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Yep. I never got to serve, but I've had a lot of people in my life who did. America has a military full of what are considered "professional soldiers". It's an all-volunteer force, and regardless of if you're a cook, a mechanic in the motor pool, a helo pilot, or a USSFOD-DELTA operator, everyone goes through the same boot camp. Everyone learns how to proficiently shoot and maintain a rifle. Everyone learns the basics of combat. Because you may be just a rear echelon motherfucker cooking chow or pushing papers for some colonel, but if a real shooting war kicks off and you get sent overseas the battle lines might shift. What once was safely behind friendly lines yesterday might suddenly be behind enemy lines today and now instead of wrenching on a Deuce and a Half, you're fighting to drive back the enemy with every other REMF who is part of the command post or base you're working out of. And it's not just the Army and Marines who teach basic combat skills and marksmanship to everyone in boot camp, but the Navy and Air Force as well. Then after boot camp, if you go into a combat MOS, then you move onto the more advanced combat training.
 
The Dude said:
Yep. I never got to serve, but I've had a lot of people in my life who did. America has a military full of what are considered "professional soldiers". It's an all-volunteer force, and regardless of if you're a cook, a mechanic in the motor pool, a helo pilot, or a USSFOD-DELTA operator, everyone goes through the same boot camp. Everyone learns how to proficiently shoot and maintain a rifle. Everyone learns the basics of combat. Because you may be just a rear echelon motherfucker cooking chow or pushing papers for some colonel, but if a real shooting war kicks off and you get sent overseas the battle lines might shift. What once was safely behind friendly lines yesterday might suddenly be behind enemy lines today and now instead of wrenching on a Deuce and a Half, you're fighting to drive back the enemy with every other REMF who is part of the command post or base you're working out of. And it's not just the Army and Marines who teach basic combat skills and marksmanship to everyone in boot camp, but the Navy and Air Force as well. Then after boot camp, if you go into a combat MOS, then you move onto the more advanced combat training.
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Yeah well, I've bolded the important part. Shooting proficiently, doesn't mean that you are a good shooter. And you can stretch this out to police as well. The vast majority of people who use firearms as tools in their duty, don't get enough training with it. I would argue that with most militaries and police forces, the standard of "proficiency" is way too low, and people are not good shots. They would need more training to be actually effective with their firearm. It then comes back to what is really necessary and important. For those grunts to know how to shoot well, or how to shoot good enough but also manouver, communicate, use their other equipment, survive in field conditions etc...

Once again, this video from Henry is spot on:
 
The Dude said:
And it's not just the Army and Marines who teach basic combat skills and marksmanship to everyone in boot camp, but the Navy and Air Force as well.
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Whoa, lets not get carried away here.

Falcos_Commisar said:
Ah so that's why the Army wants a $12,000 sight to make Joe's shoot better instead of giving them more ammunition to train with and why every single Army infantryman has a Marksman badge at the minimum and why every Marine qualifies as Expert on a flat range with range indicators 😎

Top tier marksmanship training right there.

Average Joes are not getting hits past 300 meters reliably
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So, your argument that the fundamentals for marksmanship aren't being taught in the infantry are that the Army wants a range finding electro optic and the Marines get windsocks on their 500yd man size target rifle qualification using M855? Might as well throw in the bit about a high contrast target and known range making it EZPZ. The qualification is designed to isolate and test your fundamentals, not simulate combat. Yes, the Marines are and always have been and always will be better shots then the Army. That has little to do with a firing solution optic.

The are also base line qualifications, not training. If you shoot marksman in the infantry, prepare to be hazed.

This kicked off with you saying they are trying to replace proper training with tech, then you quoted two articles saying they are making marksmanship qualifications harder and improving the program. I'm just going to pull a quote from your own post to disprove that the NGSW-FC isn't designed to replace any training in any capacity. "NGSW is not going to buy more hits, because the NGSW program has no real answers to aid the fundamentals of marksmanship.""
 
AGPinochet said:
This is said to be a leaked image of at least a prototype version of that pistol from either SHOT 2024 or 2025
1753491886104.webp
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Fucking why? The market is absolutely flooded with polymer striker fires you can't find holsters for already. Colt fanboys (besides the collectors that own shit like the American 2000) want nothing to do with this and just wish they'd unfuck their QC.

The only people who are gonna buy this are turbo normies who get it pushed on them by the local brick & motar by the clerk just trying to get it out of the counter already.
 
The hits keep coming for Sig Saar

IMG_2170.webp
 
The_Red_Man said:
Someone tell me why the fuck our military and police moved away from hammer fired to striker fired everything.
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Because it's not the 1890s and ammo just works, so you don't need to restrike primers. If you do, you can just rack a wonder9 and get one of your 16+ other cartridges into battery.
 
Taser Confetti said:
Consistent trigger pull/ease of training

It's easier and faster to take a 95IQ with zero to novice handgun experience and get acceptable scores with a Glock 17 than a Beretta M9.
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What? Explain the logic behind that... Hammer fired guns are far and away the more shooter friendly mechanism.
 
The_Red_Man said:
Someone tell me why the fuck our military and police moved away from hammer fired to striker fired everything.
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Because old bad, new good and someone somewhere allegedly had a piece of dirt fly inbetween the hammer and the primer, causing a malfunction. And so it was decreed that no-one is allowed to make DA/SA guns anymore, and everyone must copy&paste the Glock for all eternity because they've never malfunctioned, not one time.
glocknade.webp
Yeah, i know. "IT'S ONLY THE 10MM GLAWK THAT TURNS INTO A PIPE BOMB, AND THEY FIXED THAT YEARS AGO ANYWAY SO IT'S TOTALLY FINE NOW!!"
Also, condensation is a myth and there is simply NO WAY that a striker fired pistol would EVER malfunction due to a light strike, under any circumstances. DA/SA hammer fired guns are so OLD and yucky, and how am i supposed to LARP as a cop or a soldier if i don't have the new, cool stuff? As the Sig-SAAR P320 has just taught us, the popo and the military are only armed with the bestest, most quality equipment available :^)
 
Taser Confetti said:
People without further range/training time struggle on accurate first rounds with double action triggers.
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Not buying it. Did a LE school house with the 226. It was only two weeks with decent instructors, was never an obstical even for the chicks. It's actually way harder to get people to have consistency on their trigger with a glawk, you need more reps. Hammer fired is easy mode. It's why they are so prevelent in comp to this day.

M9 is, as far as I can tell, flatly superior then the M17 could ever hope to be as a shooter. It's not a training issue though.
 
Boney said:
Not buying it. Did a LE school house with the 226. It was only two weeks with decent instructors, was never an obstical even for the chicks. It's actually way harder to get people to have consistency on their trigger with a glawk, you need more reps. Hammer fired is easy mode. It's why they are so prevelent in comp to this day.

M9 is, as far as I can tell, flatly superior then the M17 could ever hope to be as a shooter. It's not a training issue though.
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I've also heard that people struggle with firing the first round via DA. When I did secfor augmentee training with the M9 that was a common complaint from people. Air crew with sidearms also complained about it. Granted, the classes for these qualifications are incredible short, have infrequent refreshers, and done by people who aren't combat arms. With a little more training the first round DA problem would be negligible like you said but there's a reason its an issue for certain people. People that don't have to shoot often are going to think its an inconvenience unless they have more training. Does that justify adopting a whole new pistol? Probably not (I prefer the M9) but you're wrong if you think nobody struggles with it
 
PFM said:
If I'm wearing a form fitted shirt there is definitely some printing, but I've learned to stop giving too much of a shit, even at work.
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That's why we have skinny single stacks or mouse guns
S.C.U.D. said:
Not a problem at all actually.
View attachment 7694689
View attachment 7694690
Not my pictures by the way, got these off /k/ ages ago.
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I'd hope so, the MOLON LABE tattoo is.... A bit cringe
Pretend To Imagine said:
I dislike shooting small pistols. If you offered me free ammo but I had to shoot it through a 43 I would pass.
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It usually depends on how the small pistol fits your hand
The Dude said:
Yep. I never got to serve, but I've had a lot of people in my life who did. America has a military full of what are considered "professional soldiers". It's an all-volunteer force, and regardless of if you're a cook, a mechanic in the motor pool, a helo pilot, or a USSFOD-DELTA operator, everyone goes through the same boot camp. Everyone learns how to proficiently shoot and maintain a rifle. Everyone learns the basics of combat. Because you may be just a rear echelon motherfucker cooking chow or pushing papers for some colonel, but if a real shooting war kicks off and you get sent overseas the battle lines might shift. What once was safely behind friendly lines yesterday might suddenly be behind enemy lines today and now instead of wrenching on a Deuce and a Half, you're fighting to drive back the enemy with every other REMF who is part of the command post or base you're working out of. And it's not just the Army and Marines who teach basic combat skills and marksmanship to everyone in boot camp, but the Navy and Air Force as well. Then after boot camp, if you go into a combat MOS, then you move onto the more advanced combat training.
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OHH man.... You do know that the majority of the military is not in the combat arms and who do the bare minimum weapon qualifications yearly and that's it unless they have a personal interest in shooting.

Just like police, meet the qualification and that's it.

Boot camp is 12 weeks once in your military career.
Foley said:
Yeah well, I've bolded the important part. Shooting proficiently, doesn't mean that you are a good shooter. And you can stretch this out to police as well. The vast majority of people who use firearms as tools in their duty, don't get enough training with it. I would argue that with most militaries and police forces, the standard of "proficiency" is way too low, and people are not good shots. They would need more training to be actually effective with their firearm. It then comes back to what is really necessary and important. For those grunts to know how to shoot well, or how to shoot good enough but also manouver, communicate, use their other equipment, survive in field conditions etc...

Once again, this video from Henry is spot on
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PREACH. Your average Army or USAF mechanic or other non combat person isn't getting hands on with their service rifle more than what's minimum necessary unless they have a personal interest in shooting or firearms.

Remember, a good % of the US and their first world militaries can actually be described as uniformed office jobs.
Boney said:
Not buying it. Did a LE school house with the 226. It was only two weeks with decent instructors, was never an obstical even for the chicks. It's actually way harder to get people to have consistency on their trigger with a glawk, you need more reps. Hammer fired is easy mode. It's why they are so prevelent in comp to this day.

M9 is, as far as I can tell, flatly superior then the M17 could ever hope to be as a shooter. It's not a training issue though.
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Anything that complicates the manual of Arms or training is seen as bad. Having to talk about "well if the gun is like this, you have to shoot it like this" or get the "why does it feel funny when I shoot it sometimes " or "why did my gun make a snapping noise when I turned the safety on" are all considered bad things.

Plus GLOCK PERFECTION.

Also, some DA/SA pistols have horrific DA trigger pulls with 12+ lb triggers and Long, gritty trigger pulls. That same gun will then have a lovely 4.5lb single action trigger with a short pull and a clean break so it feels like you're shooting two different pistols.
 
Boney said:
Not buying it. Did a LE school house with the 226. It was only two weeks with decent instructors, was never an obstical even for the chicks. It's actually way harder to get people to have consistency on their trigger with a glawk, you need more reps. Hammer fired is easy mode. It's why they are so prevelent in comp to this day.

M9 is, as far as I can tell, flatly superior then the M17 could ever hope to be as a shooter. It's not a training issue though.
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Almost everyone in the firearms training field disagrees with you. Double action firearms have their pros but the learning curve is steeper.

Yes the M9 is flatly superior to the M17/M18 - literally everything else. The bar is so low somebody cut a notch in the floor to make it flush if that's the standard.
 
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