Mega Rad Gun Thread

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S.C.U.D. said:
This is my experience with .25 ACP as of late. .25 and .22 pocket pistols are my favorite type of gun and the market has not been this good for buyers of those types in years because the boomers are all dumping them. Prices are stagnant at best and for a lot of guns falling pretty regularly. One of the main culprits, at least for the .25s, is ammo availability. At the last gun show I found three boxes of .25 FMJ in the entire show, not counting the vintage ammo for collectors. And it's not a small show. But online it's still easy to find and I can stock up no issues.
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25ACP isn’t hard at all to find online my guy. When I worked at a range/store in another life we had a few boxes but frankly only sold them to middle aged black women who’d complain because their “ring of fire” shit stacks wouldn’t cycle or they couldn’t find a spare magazine for it.
 
74164978231 said:
12 gauge shotguns and birdshot are a procurement and logistical nightmare?
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It's not an issue with the weapon and ammo themselves. It's an issue with securing spare parts for a new weapons systems, and buying enough ammo. That's why the soviets used 5.45 for both their primary service rifles and carbines.
 
Hatewerfer said:
Don't forget they also issued .45 ACP birdshot in WW2.
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Now tests of that vs drones would be mighty interesting. Dual purpose handguns seem a better idea to me than some of the wacky shotgun attachments out there, but then you're issuing handguns to troops that are also not that useful and might also be worse against drones. Still something worth testing I think. Might be ideal to go back to the big bore handgun rather than 9mm even given the case capacity advantages for anti drone shotshells, which would cause a whole new round of autistic caliber wars.
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Those rounds would be total fucking ass for drone purpose.
Only real already existing "system" for personal drone defense is shotgun BUT with tungsten shot.
Steel and leadshot have dogshit range which leaves you into the potentially lethal radius of a drone, and the drones arefast as fuck too.
Tungsten shot has better aerodynamics compared to leadshot and it holds pattern better.
Fucking expensive too, atleast here.
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Its still a shit option, but about as good as personal defense is...

Saboted "shot" ammo for 5.45 and 5.56 are being tested/used by both sides in the war, but i have not seen much about them except shots at a target at a firing range.
Its not the same as something like "ratshot" ammo for some rifle calibers, these rounds have few projectiles inside a plastic sabot and all the "shot" is in line at the center, not "loose" like normal shot.
 
Adolf Hulkler said:
Those rounds would be total fucking ass for drone purpose.
Only real already existing "system" for personal drone defense is shotgun BUT with tungsten shot.
Steel and leadshot have dogshit range which leaves you into the potentially lethal radius of a drone, and the drones arefast as fuck too.
Tungsten shot has better aerodynamics compared to leadshot and it holds pattern better.
Fucking expensive too, atleast here.
View attachment 8511643
Its still a shit option, but about as good as personal defense is...

Saboted "shot" ammo for 5.45 and 5.56 are being tested/used by both sides in the war, but i have not seen much about them except shots at a target at a firing range.
Its not the same as something like "ratshot" ammo for some rifle calibers, these rounds have few projectiles inside a plastic sabot and all the "shot" is in line at the center, not "loose" like normal shot.
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Unless the solved the accuracy and separation issue it’s not really a solution. The US DoW has had ammo companies researching duplex ammo on and off for 70+ years now and the issue has always come down to accuracy. The flight dynamics of multiple projectiles in close ballistic flight is very different then single projectile flight.
 
Akran said:
Brice keeps on giving
roswell939.PNG

You can read roswells FAQ where they go over this
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I'm tempted to try and pay a visit to BSD next time I'm in south florida but at the same time, I don't want to be around for any NDs or nonsense like that video where he was shooting into a shot trap the size of a baseball base.

Hatewerfer said:
Now tests of that vs drones would be mighty interesting. Dual purpose handguns seem a better idea to me than some of the wacky shotgun attachments out there, but then you're issuing handguns to troops that are also not that useful and might also be worse against drones. Still something worth testing I think. Might be ideal to go back to the big bore handgun rather than 9mm even given the case capacity advantages for anti drone shotshells, which would cause a whole new round of autistic caliber wars.
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You wouldn't hit it until it's too close with pistol fired shot. The spread is too aggressive. There are also very few pellets and they're so small and slow moving that unless you hit something critical like a FC, VTX, ESC, or motor wire, it might not do anything at all. Might shatter a propeller I guess, but many FPV quad propellers at least are pretty damn durable and probably stand a good chance at taking a birdshot hit without losing a blade.
 
God's drunkest driver said:
unless you hit something critical like a FC, VTX, ESC, or motor wire
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Most of what you can hit on a drone is a critical hit that will disable it.
A hit to the motor bell will at the very least warp it and cause it to jam up
A hit to one of the three motor wires will also cause it to stop
A hit to any of the flight stack (ESC, flight controller, receiver) is an instant disable
A hit to the camera or video transmitter will cut out video
A hit to the battery will cause it to rapidly drop voltage and only fly for a couple more seconds at most
The only things I can think of that won't cause a bullet or shotgun pellet to almost instantly disable a drone are a hit to the propeller blade like you said (hit to the prop hub is a different story) or a glancing blow to the frame that doesn't crack an arm.
 
Smoke Manmuscle said:
Unless the solved the accuracy and separation issue it’s not really a solution. The US DoW has had ammo companies researching duplex ammo on and off for 70+ years now and the issue has always come down to accuracy. The flight dynamics of multiple projectiles in close ballistic flight is very different then single projectile flight.
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Us army didnt require anti drone ammo and wanted multiple accurate bullets shot to increase hit probability.
Youre thinking of a whole different thing.
The slavtrial anti drone ammo requires spread, fucking nobody is pulling off snapshots against fast moving drones, every little bit helps.
Especially now that the tactics have gone from "mostly grenade dropping drones" to mostly "bubbas hot spicy load of fucking anything lying around stuffed with shrapnel and fun stuff" FPV drones.
 
Local Hooker said:
Most of what you can hit on a drone is a critical hit that will disable it.
A hit to the motor bell will at the very least warp it and cause it to jam up
A hit to one of the three motor wires will also cause it to stop
A hit to any of the flight stack (ESC, flight controller, receiver) is an instant disable
A hit to the camera or video transmitter will cut out video
A hit to the battery will cause it to rapidly drop voltage and only fly for a couple more seconds at most
The only things I can think of that won't cause a bullet or shotgun pellet to almost instantly disable a drone are a hit to the propeller blade like you said (hit to the prop hub is a different story) or a glancing blow to the frame that doesn't crack an arm.
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That's not the point of discussion, it's that shot out of a pistol which is what I am replying to is inadequate. Hit probability is a problem, kill probability is a bigger one. A quad is mostly a small target from most angles and mostly empty space from the angles that present the most target area. If it's headed right at you it's probably descending, the forward tilt relative to you is reduced by the descent. If it's a 7" ish (prop size) quad like many of the explosive carrying FPVs I've seen are, your presented frontal area where the actual electronics are is basically the size of a credit card. You have 4 foreshortened arms with motor wire target areas which are each like hitting a slurpee straw, motors that are presenting as ovals an 40mm wide tops, and props which you have to get lucky to hit because they're mostly empty space. From the bottom, the FC stack is maybe a 45mm x 45mm target including the pads that stick off of an AIO ESC for motor wires, the motors each have a round footprint of maybe 40mm, the wires are still skinny, the camera is the size of a ping pong ball. If it's analog video being used in a low countermeasures environment an AIO stack VTX can be part of the stack. If it's digital the divorced VTX is about the size of two stacked match boxes. The antenna is a negligible target. The battery is the biggest target from a bottom view if it's on the bottom, but if it's on top because it's unlikely that a hit that misses the electronics will penetrate bottom plate, top plate, and battery.

>motor bell
bird shot out of a pistol would be unlikely to stop a motor from any appreciable distance, it might dislodge a magnet where it hits but that doesn't guarantee a stoppage, it can grind against the stator and keep flying. Dropped magnets are common and usually present as noise before being a real problem. Quads will come back after a bad crash with a magnet hanging half way out of the motor bell having ground against the stator for the return flight. The motor is also round so even though it's really isn't that strong the shot is very small and slow will likely not embed but glance off and carve a chunk out. This reduces energy transfer.

>battery
I wouldn't rely on that for a kill shot. If the quad is close it might not immediately experience total power failure, especially if you hit the battery head on/glancing and only take out a single cell, or even a couple if they're flying on 6S instead of 3 or 4. A hit from the top or bottom of the battery that penetrates all cells is improbable if you are the target it is heading toward. The greater the tilt angle exposing the battery, the higher the closing speed and harder the target is. If the battery is mounted on the bottom it's a basically a non factor from the front on approach.

>frame
A bottom shot, bird shot from a shotgun will probably punch right through without breaking an arm off, it might just embed out of a pistol. Front shot, the arms are at their thickest and least probable. An FPV quad built to be a weapon probably isn't using a skinny arm ultra light race frame but a cheaper old school/freestyle frame which isn't as likely to lose an arm because a pellet went through part of it.

Shot out of a pistol is super weak. If it isn't subsonic out of the muzzle it's subsonic in a very short distance. Many bird shot loads are barely supersonic out of a 12 gauge shotgun. Bottom line, pistol shot rounds wouldn't be worth trusting your life with. You'd be better off taking cover than trying to hit a moving target with less presented area than the T-zone with a pistol. There's a reason the anti-drone munitions surfacing are closer to buckshot or nested bullets than small shot.
 
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God's drunkest driver said:
There's a reason the anti-drone munitions surfacing are closer to buckshot or nested bullets than small shot.
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I wonder if a small net of some sort would be more effective at disabling a drone.

I suppose the problem with projecting a net would be getting a strong enough one into a shot shell and if 12 gauge has enough capacity to be effective for this application.
 
God's drunkest driver said:
A quad is mostly a small target from most angles and mostly empty space from the angles that present the most target area.
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I had previously thought about engaging drones with shot but I had not accounted for the profile of the target when a suicide drone is on an attack run, that's a really good detail.

However, despite the fact that actually hitting a drone is going to be harder than I originally imagined, I still think that any sort of hit to the motors would very likely cause a mobility kill on the drone due to the payload its carrying. An empty drone can fly with a mangled rotor fairly well, sometimes you can even with a disabled motor...but I think the drone IK would struggle with a payload. That's why I was theorizing that #2-BB sized shot may be the sweet spot between saturation and damage potential.

I would rather try my luck intercepting a drone with long sticks and paracord than a pistol with ratshot ammo.

Pretend To Imagine said:
I suppose the problem with projecting a net would be getting a strong enough one into a shot shell and if 12 gauge has enough capacity to be effective for this application.
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The Ukes clearly thought it was worth experimenting with that goofy bolo shot we were talking about last time drones-n-shotguns were brought up.
 
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