Mewgenics - Edmund McMillen's biggest game yet

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Will it be better or worse than The Binding of Isaac?


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    47
  • Poll closed .
I truly don't understand why everyone keeps saying Tank is a must. I find most of its active abilities pretty lackluster (mostly displacement with very low damage, which is annoying when your basic attack already doesn't do much and the displacement often includes a huge area that inevitably affects allies) and its niche is wholly usurped by a half-decent Necromancer or Cleric. It's to the point where Tank is my least-used class; I've even used Fighter more often, if only for all the Alpha-related skills that really help it pair well with Cleric. Tank is okay for really early game, but it's been borderline redundant every time I've tried to use it past that. Can someone explain the appeal? There's no need for a guy who sits there and gets hit when you have a guy who can sit there and get hit (while healing people) or a guy who can sit there and get hit (while sucking everyone else's HP until they shrivel and die, then resurrecting their corpse to kill their allies).
This might just be my playstyle, but for me displacement is king in this game in general, Tank is a must for me because I need reliable ways to shove things around (the actual tankiness usually doesn't even matter), and I like Fighter more than Butcher because it's usually better at moving around, with more dash attacks and cheap melees to keep things clear. I consider at least one movement/teleport skill mandatory on every cat regardless of class and it's mostly about positioning myself so that I can't really get hit, and then I don't need to worry about tanking or healing and can just play hyper aggressively, milking every little source of 1 damage to clear the map as fast as possible. My normal Tank build is something like Push Through/Bowl Over/Leap, Chew, and Bodyguard/Ally Swap, RNG willing. I can't replace Tank with Necro because I don't use them in remotely similar ways
 
Can someone explain the appeal? There's no need for a guy who sits there and gets hit when you have a guy who can sit there and get hit (while healing people) or a guy who can sit there and get hit (while sucking everyone else's HP until they shrivel and die, then resurrecting their corpse to kill their allies).
I'm not a Tank stan personally, but I think the appeal is the veritable mobility, crowd-control and ally-shielding options he can roll, which can make things a lot easier depending on the map. I find him useful to bring, but he's definitely not a must for how I approach things. I believe tank is also one of the only class that can roll skills/abilities to get thorns without relying on items. And thorns is quite powerful on certain maps with annoying trash enemies (like crater).

I've actually managed to roll some of those "down on command + buff when downed" skills before, and they really aren't worth all the tradeoffs. 90% of the time, if you're downed you'll revive at like 10% HP. Your Cleric isn't going to be healing that shit even to half before your second area unless you get really really lucky (or your necromancer just has shit constitution, which isn't likely given the class bonuses). Most of the skills you can use while downed do shit damage and don't inflict leeches or buffs/debuffs, which cuts out 2/3 of what makes Necromancer so great. On top of that, if you rolled any zombie skills and created any zombies before you downed yourself, say bye-bye to your Necromancer because that corpse is getting eaten by your own "allies" long before you can ever revive.
Man, that sucks to hear. I was looking forward to trying to make it work properly since I managed to get two of the above (self-down and downed passives) in a boneyard run and was reasonably impressed. Then again, that run might have been just easy due to how broken my Hunter managed to roll again. (The holy spotter + heavy shot combo with any number of "cannot miss" items in my stash).
 
The only good "die necro nigger die" combo Ive had is the one where you do half your HP in damage (especially when its upgraded to AOE) and the spell that allows you to die without taking an injury. Necro really needs a starting passive that allows him to go down without injury or every death ability needs a massive buff. Not even that youll go down every round, since you dont level up if the cat is down at the end of the level
 
I got the best synergy a few run ago got a necromancer with 44 health and blood geyser (deals half your max hp as damage take that amount of damage) and a healing built cleric with holy weapon(free dash attack deal the amount you healed as damage). So I had this fucking crazy setup where necromancer would bloodsplode people and then my cleric would heal him all the way back up and deus vault a motherfucker and I would be ready to do it all again next turn. I had this practically out of the gate then things got really fucking crazy when my cleric got an upgrade to holy weapon and it's damage got to twice my healing a round that poor fucking spider never had a chance.
 
Now, I'm still working my way through Act 2, but my tank is MVP almost every single game. Beats out cleric easily to top my "I'm not sure how to play the game without this guy" list. Consistently competitive for damage with my Damage Guy unless I get a busted combo, plus all the movement tech, pushes and swaps and tramples and etc, plus the free 16 HP, which is actually more than 16 free HP because of the extra post-round regen. I think they're just really consistent to the point that I can almost always rely on them to be able to do the required thing at the required time, even if it means they're going to have to eat a hit or two.
And the dumb living rocks + earthquake combo is one of my favourites even though it kind of sucks.
 
Played a bit more with Butcher, Monk and Psychic; here are my thoughts on each of them:

Butcher: overall good class. Good damage AND sustain. Doesn't rely on some shitty spells or luck/build, pretty much any ability works and compliments the build. It's just like fighter, but beefier.

Monk: I like the class gimmick (switching stances) but it just ends up being a weaker fighter/ranger. Some abilities are neat (soduken, energy ball) but shadowed by actual decent classes like Tank and Ranger, who can dish out 3x the damage without gimmicks. The best spell is the mini-me summon and, goes to show you how shitty the monk is, having 3 clones running around does NOT guarantee a win. Lategame you need two stats to deal damage and half-scale off each stat, so it doesn't scale well...

Psychic: dead weight. Sure you can get decent spells for clearing trash mobs (i got the meteor+ and tk push, so I just pushed flaming boulders around) but basic attack is laughably weak and most spells are a waste of mana at best. So requires strong synergies (from allies) AND requires good luck AND generally useless against bosses AND damage is worse than cleric somehow. Whenever I get good spells yes he does better than a mage. Otherwise he's worse than a stray.

I just had a monk one shot the last boss of the game. Fuck range none of his abilities are good for it, just go full melee.
 
cwcass.jpg

This little fucker showed up at my house.
 
Seance is the really fun necro use-while-dead ability. It makes a one-turn npc ghost familiar if you're alive, but if you're downed it directly clones the caster and you get to control the clone before it poofs at the end of its turn. There's probably some really crazy synergies with it beyond abusing the clone's expendability.
 
I used to hate Necro for being black and useless.

until I realized I could use spider traps on my own leeches to make unlimited spiders the moment I had a dead body ready,
Each little fucker would inflict 3 poison, and have a 50% dodge rate from Cleric's Protect the Weak skill.
I also had a passive where if one dude gets hit with a poison, it would hit another random enemy with poison

it got to the point where I can get entire screen filled with spiders within minutes.
I didn't have to do a single thing for bosses, the spiders were that powerful, Sir Poofus's only job was holding dudes in place
while they get raped by spiders.

SPIDERS.png

WHY CAN'T I BRING THE SPIDERS HOME?
they outright mogged my useless fucking cats this run, and NEVER fucked up anything.
somehow my Cleric got madness, and downed my entire party. MULTIPLE TIMES. MY SPIDERS HAD TO WATCH THAT RETARD ALMOST RUIN THE RUN LIKE
4 TIMES.

EDIT: I JUST CHECKED THAT RETARD CAT WAS GAY AND INBRED
YOU'RE FUCKING DONE BABKA YOU RETARD GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HOUSE DUMB NIGGER CAT
RETARD GAY CAT .png
 
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Why not? I didnt think the big sharks were particularly hard, though obviously you want to run at least one ranged DPS or bring ranged weapons for the sewers.
The problem is I had a string of maps that were all choke, no point. Just a 6x wide hallway, middle was tile, sides were water. It's big enough for two big sharks (I swear one was 36hp), and there was no going around em.

I just went against Guillotina 3, and Jesus they didn't need to add the maggot.
 
I just went against Guillotina 3, and Jesus they didn't need to add the maggot.
It gets worse.

Pyrophina's first battle was the first time I wiped lol. It's Guillotina, back from the dead, but now as a giant kaiju with 600 fucking health and the worst theme song I've ever heard. (Seriously, I'm convinced it made the fight harder. Fucking hate that specific type of singing.) Every single attack of hers inflicts like 10+ tiles of fire, she takes multiple turns in a row, most of those turns involve knockback into that fire, and it got to a point where by turn 2 most of my cats had 15+ stacks of fire on them.

I was retarded and didn't think I'd need a debuffer/water guy for the fight, because for some reason it didn't occur to me that the fire godzilla might breathe fire, so I lost my entire team (two clerics, a tinkerer, and a necromancer) and all the good shit i'd given them beforehand. Lol rip.
pyrophina1_iforgottheteamlayout.PNG
RIP Remote-Controlled Pussies, you never stood a chance. Well, I mean, you did. The round before you died, Pyrophina was down to 40 health. If I'd just gotten to survive til round 6, you would still be here today... but, alas.

I really miss that fucking gear though. It was so good.
 
Pyrophina got me the first time too. I did expect fire, but I did not respect her in general because all the others had been so easy so I just brought whatever shitcats I had lying around. One of them had a drip bottle/rain hat but it didn't help.

Wiping pissed me off so I went out of my way to get a mage with whirlpool+ for the rematch, and she couldn't do shit.
However I also couldn't do much, because even if she wasn't hurting them she still kept flinging my dummies to the edges and I overlooked mobility. Plus I spammed that "strength up, speed down" buff on turn one on the cracked out butcher who was meant to do most of the damage until he basically couldn't move, not realising his grappling hook would do nothing in this fight.
So we were all pretty healthy (including the boss) for most of the 11 or 12 turns I had to listen to that song for.
 
It's a big scary demon whose power is it has like 100 HP
It technically gets buffs from each candle you have left up remaining when the Coven summons him. What those buffs are, however, I cannot tell you because I killed him in 2 rounds anyway.

E:
The only good "die necro nigger die" combo Ive had is the one where you do half your HP in damage (especially when its upgraded to AOE) and the spell that allows you to die without taking an injury. Necro really needs a starting passive that allows him to go down without injury or every death ability needs a massive buff. Not even that youll go down every round, since you dont level up if the cat is down at the end of the level
The half HP in damage one I got a lot of mileage. You just need to pair it with items or skills that give you extra healing or burst healing. (I found bandages - 2x healing received that run, which synergises nicely). Stuff like water bottles or any healing trinkets should work as well.
 
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wall of tips:

-early as possible make sure you prioritize at least 5 in all stats strays to breed a line, above all else always 5+ con and speed
-if you're struggling early, always take a tank, and prioritize any items with thorns at all times; especially if you find the fuckin picket fence looking item that gives 1+ thorns when taking damage, if you have a tank with multiple thorns items and high con and pick abilities you can work with, that can very easily carry you through caves at minimum almost by himself, i nearly even soloed pyrophina with that thorn setup because it can go upward of 50 in long fights, just avoid standing in front of or in line with allies so you don't kill your own team from knockback. cleric+tank+hunter+(fill/fighter) are very good for beginning
-if scared of the daddy shark in sewers, especially early, take a hunter and mage or 2 ranged and make sure you pick up stuff like bramble shot or decent range knockback shit
-general difficulty progression route before act 3 is sewer/caves>junkyard/boneyard>bunker/core>crater/moon, caves is straightforward, boneyard is a semi pia, bunker/core is easier than going through the desert, and crater/moon is much more complicated comparatively to everything else before act 3
-if boneyard boss is a pia, when he possesses someone, do not fight it, let him kill everyone, then his possession will smack him out of them and you'll have 1 unit at full hp to kill him at 1 hp, if you try to fight the possession and fail, then it could have fatally low hp
-as soon as you get cleric, always take cleric unless super confident or farming easy areas, if you're struggling bad, prioritize safety with something like cleric, necro (post boneyard) tank and hunter, all stuff that can heal itself and/or stay at range
-as soon as you get attic, move all cats there, more space than other rooms, i'm lazy so my game plan has always been to have 1 breeding room (attic), keep around 16 cats so no risk of losing the line but not a resource hog, and statwise you want to aim for like 10 comfort, 10 health, 10 mutation, and pumping tf out of stimulation. c h and m are nice but stim seems like the only one that has real breakpoints, 32 is a very important breakpoint for 100% first spell breeding
-you never have to throw your line in the dumpster, if you want super soldiers and are lazy/scared, when you have appeal and stim around 20+, watch strays. every time there's one with a 7, particularly a 7 in a stat you haven't seen, throw it in the breeding pile. if it lives hopefully, eventually you should get kittens with a 7 in that stat. after 2 or 3 kittens with that number, throw the stray in the dumpster, get another cat with another 7 in a different stat, and eventually you should get cats with 7s in 2, if you run out of food, adventure with them in safe areas or use others, repeat until all 7s. keep a cat count around 13-16 to avoid having to use too much resources to do so.
-if desert is scary/annoying, wait until raining at house and it removes the heat wave. take a cleric/necromancer if worried either way, if you see the pink cat miniboss, she's harder than the desert bosses and bunker boss, use extreme caution, she's boneyard boss but harder and without cheesing possession
-in general, never be afraid to let most stuff come to you, and let hunter/ranged units thin them down, and keep cleric within movement of healing people at risk, for bonus points, get stuff like prayer and/or the passive that heals the cleric
-don't be in too much of a rush for house bosses early, just send one stray, hit start and concede unless absolutely sure, your only real reward from them requires doing hard challenge runs after, so don't have to push yourself early for no reason
-if you're not afraid/bored of grinding, the easiest way to power spike is to do the best you can until you can handle caves nearly guaranteed, then do alley hard path, sewer hard path, (take box side path) cave hard path (take box again) and you get 2 furniture a run which starts building your house stats for free
-i learned late, make sure before you send retired cats down the pipe to let them stay several days or until they're old, you can pass more abilities like that
-always keep all red items as long as you can unless you have a good progression use for them, NEVER use fancy bow, only thing you seem to be able to perma "fuck up" once a save, besides which kaiju you choose
-imo especially early it's a good idea to stick to one of each item, no dupes, and no consumables in storage unless they're red, prioritize brace and thorns and +attack/range/basic attack effect for hunter if you have no idea what to do
-you can save scum multiple times if it's down to the wire, save and quit before the last unit dies, then reload, first time a run is free, second time is 1 unit gets 10% chance of failing any ability, 3rd is your full team gets that. so 2 mostly safe retries, 3 in worst case scenario, and then last one is ai control but worse. very useful early on to avoid too much pain when learning, also useful if you have a unlucky early fuck up in a mostly safe run.
 
I wish I'd recorded this: I brought a charmed Daddy Shark to Throbbing King using Persuasion Device, and had a ton of other familiars. It one shotted the King's first phase, TK bled all of my units but one cat, then the Shark proceeded to massacre everything except TK while my one remaining cat got as far away as possible and hoped it killed TK before it.

Edit: Then this fucker showed up.

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