Infected MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way

[CivilianOfTheFandomWars]

MGTOW = Incel or gay. There is no difference.

I mean, when you’re slamming that sweet boipucci what do you actually need women for?

 

[Dagobert]

I'd like to recommend everyone here complaining about male oppression to read Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men. It actually talks about things like men taking fatherly leave and how, all too often, they have to be FORCED to take it (for instance, through monetary incentives or through threats that if they don't take the time, their wives can't either), otherwise they just don't give a shit. As one of the many examples, all supported by data.

The author of that book is a fucking retard, I doubt it's anything good. I've been recommended her newsletter by IRL brainlets I know and she's a "asteroid to kill all life, women most affected" feminist and I doubt her book is any better.

But this thread is for laughing at MGTOW, if we want to laugh at feminist cringe I'm 100% sure that's better in a separate thread.

I mean, when you’re slamming that sweet boipucci what do you actually need women for?

To produce more boys for more boipucci I suppose.

 

[CivilianOfTheFandomWars]

The author of that book is a fucking retard, I doubt it's anything good. I've been recommended her newsletter by IRL brainlets I know and she's a "asteroid to kill all life, women most affected" feminist and I doubt her book is any better.

But this thread is for laughing at MGTOW, if we want to laugh at feminist cringe I'm 100% sure that's better in a separate thread.

To produce more boys for more boipucci I suppose.

Just you wait till the artificial womb comes, my nigga. Free boipucci for all.
With CRISPR, there will be two genders, Chads and Femboys.

 

[Trapitalism]

Apparently, MGTOWism has spread to China. I found this chink MGTOW on YouTube who calls himself Morpheus红丸主义。He also has a Zhihu, Bilibili and Jianshu.

 

[Solid Hyrax]

Apparently, MGTOWism has spread to China. I found this chink MGTOW on YouTube who calls himself Morpheus红丸主义。He also has a Zhihu, Bilibili and Jianshu.

Seems like he translates old TFM videos.

 

[Fougaro]

But ultimately, I dont think its like one side or the other, its more like a societal or human one, where do the spillover people go -- in an age of automation you dont have like laborers or spinsters anymore.

Personally I see this whole mess as a natural consequence of the state destroying the family by making men "obsolete" through family courts, police state and various welfare programs. Of course that socioeconomic model is highly unsustainable due to simple economic realities, but that in itself might be another tale for another time.

The point is something else I have noticed - and that's just my theory. Unless you're an honest to God homosexual, you are naturally programmed to settle down and reproduce at a (relatively) young age (late teens to mid/late 20s). If you go against your instincts and what nature and evolution meant you to do, you are prone to suffer various mental ailments. This is pretty much the reason while the majority of men you'll encounter within the manosphere are such flailing spastics and why we have this thread. No matter how reasonable the MGTOW option is to you, you still go against your natural instincts and end up being either a miserable broken shell of a man or a fuckup who develops an uncomfortably strong emotional connection to sex dolls and tolerates people around you who unrionically love Re:Zero. On a similar note, this is also the reason why for example almost every post-wall stronk and independent (career) womyn who don't need no man and hasn't settled down is almost always an insane, miserable and bitter cunt and a cat lady in the making, or why trannies have such an astronomically high suicide rate, or why NEETS who spend most of their time vegetating and feeling sorry for themselves are basically zombies and so on. The historically unprecedented socioeconomic situation described above (combined with the Internet) made things a bit more visible for everyone to behold.

MGTOW in the end is just a minor symptom of a much greater disease that maybe goes way beyond the scope of this thread. But the gist of it is to offer an explanation to why this "community" is such a fertile pasture for lolcows.

Apparently, MGTOWism has spread to China.

Given the excess male population China has as a consequence of its disastrous once-child-policy, I'd be shocked if it didn't.

 

[Least Concern]

The point is something else I have noticed - and that's just my theory. Unless you're an honest to God homosexual, you are naturally programmed to settle down and reproduce at a (relatively) young age (late teens to mid/late 20s). If you go against your instincts and what nature and evolution meant you to do, you are prone to suffer various mental ailments. This is pretty much the reason while the majority of men you'll encounter within the manosphere are such flailing spastics and why we have this thread.

I think that's putting the cart before the horse a bit. I think that maybe 80-90% of MGTOW are incels in the sense that, if they could be out there slaying puss, they would be, but for whatever reason - probably social awkwardness/anxiety/autism - they cannot. But rather than wallowing in self-pity and blaming women for their failure like incels, they instead decide "fine, I didn't want to be with any women anyway" and take up the MGTOW mantle. RGE is probably one of these. Almost all of the rest are men who have had relationships with women but have since rejected the idea perhaps due to a horrific divorce or an emotionally abusive partner or what have you (TFM, if we take him at his word, would be one of these, but I think the Celestia stuff may indicate a touch of mental illness as well). There's a fair many of this type but I think they're dwarfed by the other type. But my point is that in the cases where mental illness is involved, I think the MGTOW (or incel) behavior is a result of the illness and not the other way around. (And then you have a rare few unicorns like Drexel who are capable of landing a woman but instead voluntarily choose not to in favor of playing the field.)

I'd also maybe argue that men aren't programmed to settle down in their 20s so much as to spread their genetic material as often as possible and that in terms of chemical reactions the brain probably can't distinguish very much between a settled-down married man who gets sex every night versus a guy Genghis Khan-ing his way through the countryside, but that's a different discussion.

 

[Fougaro]

I think that's putting the cart before the horse a bit. I think that maybe 80-90% of MGTOW are incels in the sense that, if they could be out there slaying puss, they would be, but for whatever reason - probably social awkwardness/anxiety/autism - they cannot. But rather than wallowing in self-pity and blaming women for their failure like incels, they instead decide "fine, I didn't want to be with any women anyway" and take up the MGTOW mantle. RGE is probably one of these. Almost all of the rest are men who have had relationships with women but have since rejected the idea perhaps due to a horrific divorce or an emotionally abusive partner or what have you (TFM, if we take him at his word, would be one of these, but I think the Celestia stuff may indicate a touch of mental illness as well). There's a fair many of this type but I think they're dwarfed by the other type. But my point is that in the cases where mental illness is involved, I think the MGTOW (or incel) behavior is a result of the illness and not the other way around. (And then you have a rare few unicorns like Drexel who are capable of landing a woman but instead voluntarily choose not to in favor of playing the field.)

I'd also maybe argue that men aren't programmed to settle down in their 20s so much as to spread their genetic material as often as possible and that in terms of chemical reactions the brain probably can't distinguish very much between a settled-down married man who gets sex every night versus a guy Genghis Khan-ing his way through the countryside, but that's a different discussion.

Come to think of it, it can go both ways when it comes to lolcow communities. For example: Do you become an autistic retard by joining the Sonic fandom, or do you join the Sonic fandom because you're an autistic retard? Both answers are correct on a case-by-case basis. Same with feminism, the manosphere, trans-community etc. I still staunchly stand by the point that going against your nature/instincts will fuck you up mentally in one way or another. As a man it may be the rational choice for you to go your own way with family laws as they are and the #MeToo hysteria, but even if you were perfectly fine before going your own way, there is a good chance they you won't be later. It's just that as I see things going now in society (), I expect incels and MGTOW/herbivore men to increasingly become the norm. But as said, possibly another tale for another time.

As for TFM, you don't have to be a shrink to see a decent case for mental illness. With his abandonment issues, getting cheated on by every girl he had a relationship with it is in hindsight not that surprising that he'd have a similar fucked up relationship with Celestina like Tom Hanks' character in Cast Away had with Wilson the volleyball. Tom Hanks to his credit at least didn't fuck Wilson IIRC.

Regarding RGE, I heard unconfirmed legends that he may actually have a daughter, even though he strikes me as a YandereDev tier autistic weeb who is a MGTOW instead of an incel.

 

[redcent]

Personally I see this whole mess as a natural consequence of the state destroying the family by making men "obsolete" through family courts, police state and various welfare programs. Of course that socioeconomic model is highly unsustainable due to simple economic realities, but that in itself might be another tale for another time.

The point is something else I have noticed - and that's just my theory. Unless you're an honest to God homosexual, you are naturally programmed to settle down and reproduce at a (relatively) young age (late teens to mid/late 20s). If you go against your instincts and what nature and evolution meant you to do, you are prone to suffer various mental ailments. This is pretty much the reason while the majority of men you'll encounter within the manosphere are such flailing spastics and why we have this thread. No matter how reasonable the MGTOW option is to you, you still go against your natural instincts and end up being either a miserable broken shell of a man or a fuckup who develops an uncomfortably strong emotional connection to sex dolls and tolerates people around you who unrionically love Re:Zero. On a similar note, this is also the reason why for example almost every post-wall stronk and independent (career) womyn who don't need no man and hasn't settled down is almost always an insane, miserable and bitter cunt and a cat lady in the making, or why trannies have such an astronomically high suicide rate, or why NEETS who spend most of their time vegetating and feeling sorry for themselves are basically zombies and so on. The historically unprecedented socioeconomic situation described above (combined with the Internet) made things a bit more visible for everyone to behold.

MGTOW in the end is just a minor symptom of a much greater disease that maybe goes way beyond the scope of this thread. But the gist of it is to offer an explanation to why this "community" is such a fertile pasture for lolcows.

Given the excess male population China has as a consequence of its disastrous once-child-policy, I'd be shocked if it didn't.

This smells too much of the attitudes I see wafting around these days, or even when I was growing up : "women need to be married off or else they will turn into crazy cat ladies" "men have to get married or else they'll become gay or pedos"

It's not putting a gun to one's head and forcing them into sex, but it is pressuring people through nonsense into doing something they don't want. And if following these "instincts" is so important a fine way to suppress them and turn people off of sex/ marriage for a good long time is pushing them into it. That's bound to create more mental issues than leaving well enough alone. And that's at best. It also leads to rushed marriages, divorces, God knows what else.

 

[Mepsi Pax]

This smells too much of the attitudes I see wafting around these days, or even when I was growing up : "women need to be married off or else they will turn into crazy cat ladies" "men have to get married or else they'll become gay or pedos"

It's not putting a gun to one's head and forcing them into sex, but it is pressuring people through nonsense into doing something they don't want. And if following these "instincts" is so important a fine way to suppress them and turn people off of sex/ marriage for a good long time is pushing them into it. That's bound to create more mental issues than leaving well enough alone. And that's at best. It also leads to rushed marriages, divorces, God knows what else.

This is maybe backwards, as many forced memes were pushed and unintended consequences occurred before the nuclear family unit began to break down in earnest. Being childless and alone IS a legitimate "mental issue" for people exiting their reproductive prime, while being told you need to settle down and procreate is... not so much. The narrative of your youth (???) has been relegated to the dustbin along with the moral crusaders of the religious right, there is little societal pressure to marry remaining outside of wacky religious sects (which interestingly seem to have better family outcomes than society at large).

Historically, people didn't become crazy because they were pressured into marriage. On the contrary, only crazies and weirdos lived "outside" of the natural order. Even very wealthy and powerful people (some of whom were crazy too) had kids and spouses, and while their position allowed them to have many kids with many spouses (and non-spouses), that is more or less a normal function of biology and remains plausible only for those with the resources to do so. For the average person, and many of those on the fringes of average, getting married and having kids is the normal biological progression, and it remains an instinctual drive even as the cultural motivators for doing so fade into obscurity (are murdered?).

To put the word "instinct" in quotes as you do in your post is ridiculous. Surely you don't think that evolutionary pressures, which are predicated entirely on benis-in-bagina dynamics, are somehow irrelevant to our biological natures? What IS an instinct if the desire to plug hole with pole (see: Poles and Holes Dichotomy" - M. Pax 2017) is not one? The family dynamic and child rearing itself is of course downstream from the complicated questions of jizzcunt, but it's still far more "instinctual" in an evolved programming sense (aka by definition) than the alternatives, which are themselves memes that mostly consist of perversion.

 

[redcent]

This is maybe backwards, as many forced memes were pushed and unintended consequences occurred before the nuclear family unit began to break down in earnest. Being childless and alone IS a legitimate "mental issue" for people exiting their reproductive prime, while being told you need to settle down and procreate is... not so much. The narrative of your youth (???) has been relegated to the dustbin along with the moral crusaders of the religious right, there is little societal pressure to marry remaining outside of wacky religious sects (which interestingly seem to have better family outcomes than society at large).

If there's something I learned from all this incel/MGTOW stuff is that virgin shaming is sadly a thing and it is a legit grievance people have a right to be upset about.

Maybe not to the extent an entire gender needs to be raped and murdered but I am beginning to be dissapointed on how some folks have been treated. To say nothing of my own experiences which I won't powerlevel here

Historically, people didn't become crazy because they were pressured into marriage.

There are some seriously messed up people who became so after being pressured into marriage. And forced marriage is often considered inhumane for good reason. And that's just the marriage part. Forcing someone into sex itself is bad no matter how you cut it.

On the contrary, only crazies and weirdos lived "outside" of the natural order. Even very wealthy and powerful people (some of whom were crazy too) had kids and spouses, and while their position allowed them to have many kids with many spouses (and non-spouses), that is more or less a normal function of biology and remains plausible only for those with the resources to do so. For the average person, and many of those on the fringes of average, getting married and having kids is the normal biological progression, and it remains an instinctual drive even as the cultural motivators for doing so fade into obscurity (are murdered?).

To put the word "instinct" in quotes as you do in your post is ridiculous. Surely you don't think that evolutionary pressures, which are predicated entirely on benis-in-bagina dynamics, are somehow irrelevant to our biological natures? What IS an instinct if the desire to plug hole with pole (see: Poles and Holes Dichotomy" - M. Pax 2017) is not one? The family dynamic and child rearing itself is of course downstream from the complicated questions of jizzcunt, but it's still far more "instinctual" in an evolved programming sense (aka by definition) than the alternatives, which are themselves memes that mostly consist of perversion.

I seemed to have missed getting this instinct. I doubt it's universal and more of a case of societal expectations rather than biological need, and even if it is the latter, not everyone wants to have a mcfamily with a side of white picket fence. Being turned off of food is just as much of a legitimate instinct as hunger and everyone varies from person to person. Some people are different, thus is fact. And if it's unnatural? So? Being unnatural doesn't make it wrong. Appeal to nature being a fallacy and all....

 

[Least Concern]

This is maybe backwards, as many forced memes were pushed and unintended consequences occurred before the nuclear family unit began to break down in earnest. Being childless and alone IS a legitimate "mental issue" for people exiting their reproductive prime, while being told you need to settle down and procreate is... not so much. The narrative of your youth (???) has been relegated to the dustbin along with the moral crusaders of the religious right, there is little societal pressure to marry remaining outside of wacky religious sects (which interestingly seem to have better family outcomes than society at large).

Historically, people didn't become crazy because they were pressured into marriage. On the contrary, only crazies and weirdos lived "outside" of the natural order. Even very wealthy and powerful people (some of whom were crazy too) had kids and spouses, and while their position allowed them to have many kids with many spouses (and non-spouses), that is more or less a normal function of biology and remains plausible only for those with the resources to do so. For the average person, and many of those on the fringes of average, getting married and having kids is the normal biological progression, and it remains an instinctual drive even as the cultural motivators for doing so fade into obscurity (are murdered?).

To put the word "instinct" in quotes as you do in your post is ridiculous. Surely you don't think that evolutionary pressures, which are predicated entirely on benis-in-bagina dynamics, are somehow irrelevant to our biological natures? What IS an instinct if the desire to plug hole with pole (see: Poles and Holes Dichotomy" - M. Pax 2017) is not one? The family dynamic and child rearing itself is of course downstream from the complicated questions of jizzcunt, but it's still far more "instinctual" in an evolved programming sense (aka by definition) than the alternatives, which are themselves memes that mostly consist of perversion.

I agree with you about the poles in holes thing being instinctual. But I don't agree that settling down, being monogamous, and taking care of a family is, at least for men; these are higher-level concepts which were introduced by society and religion. You need a subjective concept of "morality" to explain why those sorts of things should be done which you don't need for just fucking.

But this is just my opinion. I'm not an evolutionary biologist (or a sociologist for that matter).

 

[Fougaro]

I agree with you about the poles in holes thing being instinctual. But I don't agree that settling down, being monogamous, and taking care of a family is, at least for men; these are higher-level concepts which were introduced by society and religion. You need a subjective concept of "morality" to explain why those sorts of things should be done which you don't need for just fucking.

But this is just my opinion. I'm not an evolutionary biologist (or a sociologist for that matter).

I think the "settling down" aspect may have been a bit misunderstood as I was thinking more about both sexes fulfilling their natural reproductive roles, which can be in form of a traditional monogamous marriage or an alpha Chad having a harem of women for himself as it is the case among primates, early history or very primitive societies. That and combined with the fact that humans are social animals. Monogamy was introduced since it is the foundation of every civilised society as it strengthens the families and reduces violent competition among men for women.

Point is if you live an unnatural life style - not "unnatural" from a subjective moral, but legit unnatural from a biological standpoint - you are prone to either become miserable or even go full insane. Again, look at the trans people and their 41% if you don't believe me.

Things start making a lot more sense when you think of humans less as being "made in God's image", but rather as slightly more sophisticated apes.

 

[redcent]

I think the "settling down" aspect may have been a bit misunderstood as I was thinking more about both sexes fulfilling their natural reproductive roles, which can be in form of a traditional monogamous marriage or an alpha Chad having a harem of women for himself as it is the case among primates, early history or very primitive societies. That and combined with the fact that humans are social animals. Monogamy was introduced since it is the foundation of every civilised society as it strengthens the families and reduces violent competition among men for women.

Point is if you live an unnatural life style - not "unnatural" from a subjective moral, but legit unnatural from a biological standpoint - you are prone to either become miserable or even go full insane. Again, look at the trans people and their 41% if you don't believe me.

Things start making a lot more sense when you think of humans less as being "made in God's image", but rather as slightly more sophisticated apes.

People are indeed social animals, in which case you deal by loneliness by connecting with people and talking with them

People are indeed wired for getting off, and suppressing that can lead to issues, which everyone has a right to do with in their own private space when alone

Doesn't necessarily mean you need the two together dealt with at the same time. Sex and reproduction isn't a cure all for loneliness, isolation or whatever mental illness - therapy is

If you're worried about crazy cat ladies chances are if they were convinced to get knocked up they'd be crazy anyway, with the addition of dependants whose life would get fucked up because they're being raised by someone mentally ill. Maybe they'd be better off as single which isn't as bad of a fate as media would have you believe.

If you're worried about incels going crazy I think they have a lot of other issues going on that sex won't cure either - therapy would be better

 

[Mepsi Pax]

When speaking of such complex topics, it's best not to get hung up on fringe examples and anecdotes. If you have a different experience, that may not be particularly relevant if you're in the extreme minority. Isolated cases are also not necessarily indicative of anything when discussing social trends. Further, conflating things like hunger and sex/reproductive drive may give you a satisfying analogy to work with, but it's going to be a sloppy comparison.

I would agree that monogamy as a concept is primarily a cultural institution, and it's my fault for glossing over the topic with "settling down" when I would consider polygamy to also be a form of "settling down". It's more the pair-bonding aspect of reproductive sex that I would consider to be instinctual or "natural". I included that digression about powerful people/those with resources having multiple partners for that reason.

The problem with using something like forced marriage to illustrate a point is that it has no relevance in the modern western world. Unless you come directly from some throwback culture where you had experience with the practice, it's meaningless to use it as an example (neither you nor your audience know anything about it). Note also that "arranged" marriage is not a synonym of "forced" marriage, and historically I'd say that cultures practicing some form of arranged marriage (a huge number) would have considered it "normal" and not suffered much in the way of psychological stress from the practice.

"Virgin-shaming" for men, while a pretty gay expression, is definitely real. The fact that this meme exists today is of course a product of societal breakdown, but I would posit that past cultures also had some form of shaming for extended bachelorhood, it just wasn't the same hypersexualized and ultimately meaningless expression that it is today. If you were a 30 year old peasant in the middle ages, or any fully (and then some) adult male in most periods, and you weren't courting, paired up, or at least having discreet encounters with hoors, wouldn't your fellows think there's something wrong with you? That's because, strictly speaking, there would be something wrong with you - you would be exhibiting unusual behavior for a human male. If you weren't some relevant cultural thing like a monk, it would be considered very strange.

 

[redcent]

When speaking of such complex topics, it's best not to get hung up on fringe examples and anecdotes. If you have a different experience, that may not be particularly relevant if you're in the extreme minority. Isolated cases are also not necessarily indicative of anything when discussing social trends. Further, conflating things like hunger and sex/reproductive drive may give you a satisfying analogy to work with, but it's going to be a sloppy comparison.

Sloppy? I don't know. Maybe, if so I apologise. But wrong? Point I was trying to get to was people glorify sex positivity pointing out that the sex urge is natural. But isn't getting turned off just as natural? Why should that be shamed?

I would agree that monogamy as a concept is primarily a cultural institution, and it's my fault for glossing over the topic with "settling down" when I would consider polygamy to also be a form of "settling down". It's more the pair-bonding aspect of reproductive sex that I would consider to be instinctual or "natural". I included that digression about powerful people/those with resources having multiple partners for that reason.

The problem with using something like forced marriage to illustrate a point is that it has no relevance in the modern western world. Unless you come directly from some throwback culture where you had experience with the practice, it's meaningless to use it as an example (neither you nor your audience know anything about it).

The western world is better than say the middle east or even the far east, doesn't mean forced marriage or pressure to marry is non-existent in the western world. You want to exclude "throw back cultures" like a pop-up cult, but this is exactly the problem. All it takes is some ass to throw back the culture you're in. Cults grow, and it's always best to nip it in the the bud

Case in point I was talking about earlier: I have seen people going on how women should be married off "or else they'd become crazy cat ladies" I don't know if it's incels or red pills or black pills or some sex-positive liberal or whatever. Why let that attitude spread?

Note also that "arranged" marriage is not a synonym of "forced" marriage, and historically I'd say that cultures practicing some form of arranged marriage (a huge number) would have considered it "normal" and not suffered much in the way of psychological stress from the practice.

Yes, this is true

"Virgin-shaming" for men, while a pretty gay expression, is definitely real. The fact that this meme exists today is of course a product of societal breakdown, but I would posit that past cultures also had some form of shaming for extended bachelorhood, it just wasn't the same hypersexualized and ultimately meaningless expression that it is today. If you were a 30 year old peasant in the middle ages, or any fully (and then some) adult male in most periods, and you weren't courting, paired up, or at least having discreet encounters with hoors, wouldn't your fellows think there's something wrong with you? That's because, strictly speaking, there would be something wrong with you - you would be exhibiting unusual behavior for a human male. If you weren't some relevant cultural thing like a monk, it would be considered very strange.

A lot of things in past times were considered strange but as a culture we have learned to accept them so long as they aren't harmful. Different things occur: that's nature. Sometimes there's a freak blue flower in a field of white flowers. Sometimes a summer comes late. That's nature:it's dirty, it's unpredictable, and it doesn't always run to program like a computer. We're not a bunch of uniform robots programmed one way.

Being single is a trait, whatever the reasoning like having red hair or a scar on your knee. Whatever they saw in past times it's nothing to be ashamed about nor should anyone shame someone for it. So long as it hurts no-one, why would anyone care?

 

[BiggerChungus]

Not gonna lie, MGTOW feels like the only reasonable choice these days. Factoring everything together, what real benefit is there to relationships? How many downsides are there? How far's our culture and society in general degenerated? It doesn't mean to be an autist who screeches at every woman he sees. Have female friends, appreciate your family, but a romantic relationship just isn't worth pursuing anymore. It's friends and above all else family that make up your most important interpersonal relationships. I don't say that as an incel either, but as someone who's seen terrible shit firsthand, both how worthless a relationship is to some people and how some ex-married friends had their lives completely ruined, it really makes you question the merit of keeping a relationship altogether. All the cost, all the stress, all the bullshit you put up with, and for what? Shoving your wang into something? My two cents anyway.

Things start making a lot more sense when you think of humans less as being "made in God's image", but rather as slightly more sophisticated apes.

I think nurture has more to do with it than anything else.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

Not gonna lie, MGTOW feels like the only reasonable choice these days. Factoring everything together, what real benefit is there to relationships? How many downsides are there? How far's our culture and society in general degenerated? It doesn't mean to be an autist who screeches at every woman he sees. Have female friends, appreciate your family, but a romantic relationship just isn't worth pursuing anymore. It's friends and above all else family that make up your most important interpersonal relationships. I don't say that as an incel either, but as someone who's seen terrible shit firsthand, both how worthless a relationship is to some people and how some ex-married friends had their lives completely ruined, it really makes you question the merit of keeping a relationship altogether. All the cost, all the stress, all the bullshit you put up with, and for what? Shoving your wang into something? My two cents anyway.

I think nurture has more to do with it than anything else.

If you see sex as the primary fruit of a romantic relationship, you are very stupid.

 

[BiggerChungus]

If you see sex as the primary fruit of a romantic relationship, you are very stupid.

That's primarily what romantic relationships are seen as now. Part of what MGTOW takes an issue with, from what I can tell anyway, is how relationships have become oversexualized, and how it's the main/most important thing people seem to expect out of it.

 

[Jaimas]

That's primarily what romantic relationships are seen as now. Part of what MGTOW takes an issue with, from what I can tell anyway, is how relationships have become oversexualized, and how it's the main/most important thing people seem to expect out of it.

Honestly, that says a lot more about you than the people you're trying to criticize.