Science Mice with two fathers have their own offspring for the first time - We're a step closer to two men being able to have genetic children of their own after the creation of fertile mice by putting two sperm cells in an empty egg

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Adult male mice that have two fathers and went on to have offspring of their own
Yanchang Wei


For the first time, mice with two fathers have gone on to have offspring of their own – marking a significant step towards enabling two men to have children to whom they are both genetically related. However, there is still a long way to go before this could be attempted in people.

Yanchang Wei at Shanghai Jiao Tong University in China achieved the feat by putting two sperm cells together in an egg whose nucleus had been removed. The team then used a method called epigenome editing to reprogram seven sites in the sperm DNA, which was needed to allow the embryo to develop.

Of the 259 of these embryos that were transferred to female mice, just two offspring – both male – survived and grew to adulthood, making the success rate very low. Both then fathered offspring – which appeared normal in terms of size, weight and appearance – after mating with females.

Creating mice with two fathers has proved to be much harder than creating mice with two mothers. The birth of the first fertile mouse with two mothers, Kaguya, was reported in 2004.

Kaguya had to be genetically modified, but in 2022, Wei and his colleagues were able to create similarly fatherless mice using only epigenome editing, which doesn’t alter the DNA sequence. This same method was used to make the motherless mice.

The reason it is such a significant feat to create mammals with two fathers or two mothers is due to a phenomenon called imprinting, which is related to the fact that most animals have two sets of chromosomes, one inherited from the mother and one from the father.

During the formation of eggs and sperm, chemical labels are added to these chromosomes that program some genes to be active and others to be inactive. These changes are called “epigenetic” because they don’t change the underlying DNA sequence, but the labels can still be passed on when cells divide, meaning their effects can last a lifetime.

Crucially, epigenetic programming in mothers is different from that in fathers, with some genes that are labelled as “on” in sperm being labelled as “off” in eggs, and vice versa.

This means that if an egg has two sets of maternal chromosomes, or two sets of paternal ones, it cannot develop normally. A gene that should be active in one chromosome of a pair may be turned off in both, or both copies of a gene may be active when only one should be, resulting in an “overdose” of that gene.

In Kaguya’s case, researchers got around this by deleting part of a gene to make overall gene activity more normal. But creating mice with two fathers requires many more changes.

Earlier this year, a separate team in China got a few mice with two fathers to grow to adulthood after making 20 genetic modifications to normalise their gene activity, but these mice weren’t fully healthy or fertile.

While correcting gene activity via genetic modification is useful for studying imprinting in lab animals, it would be unacceptable in people, not least because the effects of the genetic changes aren’t fully understood.

For their epigenetic approach, Wei and his team used modified forms of the CRISPR proteins that are usually used for gene editing. Just like standard CRISPR proteins, these can be made to seek out specific sites on genomes. But when these sequences are found, the modified proteins add or remove epigenetic labels rather than altering DNA.

The study is a major step forward, says Helen O’Neill at University College London. “It confirms that genomic imprinting is the main barrier to uniparental reproduction in mammals and shows it can be overcome.”

Because it doesn’t involve genetic modification, the epigenome-editing approach could, in principle, be used to allow same-sex couples to have genetic children of their own. However, the success rate would need to be much higher before the technique could be considered for use in people. “While this research on generating offspring from same-sex parents is promising, it is unthinkable to translate it to humans due to the large number of eggs required, the high number of surrogate women needed and the low success rate,” says Christophe Galichet at the Sainsbury Wellcome Centre in the UK.

There are several reasons why the success rate was so low. For starters, combining two sperm cells means a quarter of the embryos had two Y chromosomes and wouldn’t have developed far. Also, the epigenome editing only worked at all seven sites in a small proportion of the embryos, and it might have had off-target effects in some cases.

The success rate and health of the animals could probably be improved by altering more than seven sites. Another issue is that in people a slightly different set of sites might need altering.

If human babies with two fathers are ever created in this way, they would technically be three-parent babies because the mitochondria in their cells, which contain a tiny amount of DNA, would come from the egg donor.

In 2023, a team in Japan announced the birth of mouse pups with two fathers using a third technique that involves turning mouse stem cells into eggs. However, it isn’t clear if any pups survived to adulthood, and so far no one has managed to turn human stem cells into eggs.

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If we're fucking around and editing sites in the DNA, could we like...cure Down syndrome, maybe? Instead of this absolutely pointless shit?
The cure for Downies is to abort them.

Down's syndrome: 'In all honesty we were offered 15 terminations'
Ninety per cent of women whose unborn babies are diagnosed with Down's syndrome choose to have an abortion, which is legal right up until birth [UK].

Gene editing a Downie embryo could cause other mutations even if it were possible to pull it off without destroying it. And once you have a living, breathing specimen, a gene therapy probably couldn't reverse the many deformities caused, much less the brain problems.
 
If we're fucking around and editing sites in the DNA, could we like...cure Down syndrome, maybe? Instead of this absolutely pointless shit?
Probably not. It’s caused by errors in how chromosomes segregate, and humans have an annoyingly high rate of that happening.
It's probably still a long ways off. Last I heard, they were able to fix some cancers in mice, and that certainly hasn't translated to humans yet.
There’s a joke that you can cure anything at all in mice.
The gays won’t be using this just yet. You still need an egg, and a womb (and no, whatever you’ve read recently about artificial wombs being just around the corner it’s bollocks, they have wet incubators, not wombs that can take an embryo from conception to birth.)
Also: unethical. Stop it
 
The gays won’t be using this just yet. You still need an egg, and a womb (and no, whatever you’ve read recently about artificial wombs being just around the corner it’s bollocks, they have wet incubators, not wombs that can take an embryo from conception to birth.)
"Men giving birth" is probably going to remain a contradiction for a long while, hopefully forever. Giving birth is exclusively female with good reason, and no amount of in-uteros and artificial wombs is going to change that - they're tampering with the conditions to produce their bullshit outcome, but it still requires female parts to accomplish it.

But you know, this is what people care about. Not trying to cure mental diseases or other malformations that could realistically have a solution one day...
 
even mice realize you don't need foids :winner:

in seriousness, the natural and healthy way for two men in homo love with each other to have kids is to separately have children with women, and then there's a chance that those kids would have kids with each other somewhere down the line.
 
Damn. China is so down for having kids they're trying to make breeding faggots to be a viable alternative. Here's the thing though. Anyone wanting faggots is always an outlier. Men being experts at sniffing out fake women is a built in survival mechanism. Right down to the innate disgust anyone feels when a fag hits on them.

You know, societies that mulch up its own children and discourage people to breed via the conditions it creates probably shouldn't exist anymore.
 
China scares me when it comes to things like this. I've no doubt they're up to worse things that they're hiding from the rest of the world, hoping to have some sort of mad scientific breakthrough that gives them a superhuman edge over the rest of us.
I have a good imagination, but I won't share, clones would be the least of it.
I also worry about what Bill Gates and the faggoty WEF types could be up too in deepest, darkest Africa, but then I start to sound conspiracy minded and crazy.
Plenty of people to bribe, though.
Plenty of places to hide.
Plenty of women and children left behind, while the men invade the Western world. Superstitious, easily fooled women and children, hungry and easily swayed by fancy clothes and shiny things,
Women and children who won't be missed, in the grand scheme of things of things.
If I was an incredibly rich, power mad, evil, POS, with stupid theories to test out, and needed warm human bodies and utmost secrecy; if I knew chinks were as trustworthy as a gang of jeets locked in a bedroom with a white teenage girl; well I think I could do lot worse than set up somewhere in Africa.
If I think like this, am I evil too?
Or just a retarded fantasist?
 
For the first time, mice with two fathers have gone on to have offspring of their own – marking a significant step towards enabling two men to have children to whom they are both genetically related. However, there is still a long way to go before this could be attempted in people.

Manmade horrors beyond our comprehension.

I don't think we can stop the "Playing God" train. Even with strict ethical laws you will still have people breaking them. Once the technology is there you can't just make it go poof overnight. China is gonna do what it wants.
 
Somehow I suspect that at some level money from the US is funding these gay monster-baby experiments in China. Just like the Wuhan lab was funded for virus research before covid.

If they want gay monster-babies, they would be better off focusing on providing clone babies for gay men.
 
It's all done for ego. It's unethical to do it in humans, when there are far more ethical and safer means of reproduction that don't have a huge list of potential unknowns that risk showing up generations down the line.
Hence why this macabre research is done in China, of all places. Those fucking bugmen have absolutely no ethics or morals. Their entire culture is built on theft and scamming, they'd fuck over their own grandparents for an extra yuan, so what's to stop them from genetically engineering these horrors? Absolutely nothing. And if you don't think they're working on the same thing for genetically engineered superhumans, I have some beachfront property in Iowa to sell you.
 
This has been theorized for literal decades; using cell stemming to create a male egg/female sperm is technically possible, but this looks like they just combined the chromosomes of two males in a hollowed out donor egg; thr mitochondrial DNA will still be from the mother (technically giving three parents.
 
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