🐱 Millennials aren’t saving for retirement because they don’t think capitalism will exist by then

CatParty
https://www.salon.com/2018/03/18/so...y-do-not-think-capitalism-will-exist-by-then/


CNN reported last week that 66 percent of millennials aged 21 to 32 have nothing saved for retirement. And while their writer chalks up this inequity to student loans, “stagnant wages” and “high unemployment,” there may yet be a deeper cause: many millennials honestly don’t see a future for our economic system.

The aforementioned CNN article about millennials’ (lack of) retirement savings went semi-viral, partly because many saw humor in how it missed how many truly felt. “RT if socialism is your retirement plan,” Holly Wood, 32, a political organizer, wrote on Twitter.

The idea that we millennials’ only hope for retirement is the end of capitalism or the end of the world is actually quite common sentiment among the millennial left. Jokes about being unable to retire or anticipating utter social change by retirement age were ricocheting around the internet long before CNN’s article was published.









Older generations, and even millennials who are better off and who have managed to achieve a sort of petit-bourgeois freedom, might find this sentiment unimaginable, even abhorrent. And yet, in studying the reaction to the CNN piece and reaching out to millennials who had responded to it, I was astounded not only at how many young people shared Wood’s feelings, but how frequently our expectations for the future aligned. Many millennials expressed to me their interest in creating self-sustaining communities as their only hope for survival in old age; a lack of faith that capitalism as we know it would exist by retirement age; and that alternating climate crises, concentrations of wealth, and privatization of social welfare programs would doom their chance at survival.

“In general, I regard the future as a multitude of possibilities, but most of them don't look good,” Elias Schwartzman, 29, a musician, told me. “When I'm at retirement age, around 2050, I think it's possible we'll have seen a breakdown of modern society.” Schwartzman said that he saw the future as encompassing one of two possibilities: an apocalyptic “total breakdown of industrial society,” or “capitalism morphing into a complete plutocracy.” “I think the argument can be made that we're well on the way to that reality,” he added.

Wood, 32, a political consultant, told me via Twitter that she felt similarly. “I don’t think the world can sustain capitalism for another decade,” she explained. “It’s socialism or bust. We will literally start having resource wars that will kill us all if we don’t accept that the free market will absolutely destroy us within our lifetime [if] we don’t start fighting its hegemony,” she added.

“Capitalism might still exist [in 2050], but I don’t expect people will be happy about it,” Jon Good, 34, a chocolatier and small business owner, said. “If [capitalism] is replaced [by then], my ideal economic model is one where all basic necessities are abundant and free, everyone works a few hours a week at the necessary chores of society like garbage collection and machine maintenance, then has the rest of their lives free to pursue whatever projects—be they art, leisure, or industry—that they desire.”

That utopian hope, that we could theoretically end up in a sort of fully-automated post-work social democracy à la “Star Trek,” was expressed by others too.

“I think a system with universal basic income is inevitable if we're going to survive the automation of jobs as a society,” Becca Cook, 30, told me over Facebook chat. “We need to shift our understanding and expectations to a world where not everyone has to have a job.”

Sarah Frasco, 26, a student, saw a gulf between her and the young people who even thought about things like retirement. “For the most part, the idea of retirement or how you plan for it is really the privilege of the few people my age who have access to that kind of security and stability,” Frasco told Salon. “I know a few people from school who are on that track right now and sometimes I compare myself to them and wonder how I'll ever catch up.”

Good agreed with Frasco that retirement savings plans were the domain of bourgeois millennials. “In the 12 years since graduating college, I’ve spent one year working a job with benefits,” Good told Salon. “The rest of the time I’ve been cobbling together gigs and part-time jobs and under-the-table work that hasn’t paid me enough to save anything.”

“The economic realities of my generation make the expectations for my parents’ generation seem ludicrous to me—having a job with benefits and that pays enough that I can make rent, and save for retirement and also maybe for a down payment on property seems like a lottery,” Good continued. “Maybe 15 percent of my peer group has this, and having it is a combination of luck and family connections rather than skill and work ethic.”

Most intriguing, many millennials said that their life plans, goals and careers had been affected by their expectations of the future and the dismal economic circumstances into which they were born. “I was someone who very much wanted to have children by age 35 and no longer think that [is] even a remote possibility, even with two parents,” Wood told Salon. “And having the role of parent so squarely removed from my trajectory of life possibility has made me take bigger risks and made me unlikely to take on any job just for the sake of my résumé.”

Of course, many millennials are not even in a position of considering retirement savings, much less having options when it comes to work or life decisions. More millennials live in poverty than any other generation, according to a recent Pew Research poll, which noted that "5.3 million of the nearly 17 million U.S. households living in poverty were headed by a Millennial."

But for millennials who had more economic agency, the expectation of an unstable future meant trying to find happiness in the present. “I just blew all my savings on a nine-month road trip on the assumption that something is going to change drastically in the next few years,” Cook said.

“Not only am I not saving for retirement, I have never had a serious job because I have thought capitalism would be fucked by [the time I retired] since I was a teenager,” Shannon Malloy, 31, a student, organizer and bartender, said.

They say every generation thinks that it will be the last, as alt-country crooner Jeff Tweedy of Wilco rhapsodized. And yet, for millennials, it is perhaps understandable given the environmental and political situation at hand. Our ecological survival on the planet seems incompatible with the ever-hungry maw of capitalism, which requires ever-accelerating industrial production and consumption. Just as pollution, carbon emissions, deforestation and planned obsolescence are “good” for capitalist economies, they are horrendous for the environment and seem to be driving us to extinction in ways that are now manifesting in extreme weather events. Meanwhile, the planet’s tilt toward authoritarian politics and privatization do not bode well for the young.

Interestingly, privileged millennials on the higher end of the economic spectrum had trouble comprehending these kinds of attitudes. John Hagensen, 35, founder and managing director of investment advisory firm Keystone Wealth Partners, couldn’t fathom his struggling coevals’ alternative visions of the future. “I guess my argument to [their points] would be whether [societal collapse] happens or not, where does that change the personal responsibility for you to prepare yourself to take care of yourself and be responsible for yourself?” Hagensen told Salon. “They may be right, so does that mean that for the next 25 years they should save nothing?” Despite Hagensen’s preconceptions that lack of retirement planning indicated a lack of personal responsibility, the millennials I interviewed had all planned thoughtfully and carefully for their retirement — just not in the “traditional” manner, via investment accounts, that Hagensen was accustomed to.

Indeed, there was a surprising congruity among what “planning for retirement” meant for most of those whom I interviewed. “If I don’t die in the revolution I imagine I’ll be living in an intentional community,” Malloy said. “Either because we have no other options or because we’re trying to have as much autonomy as possible so we can keep doing [political organizing] work. I don’t count on ‘the work’ being finished enough to chill out in our lifetime,” she added.

“I’m absolutely convinced over how quickly friends have lost their pensions, 401ks and IRAs to bubble crashes that there is no safe place to ‘save’ for retirement,” Wood said, “And the best way to plan for retirement is by building tribes of like-minded peers who have committed themselves to group survival.”

“I’m way more invested in the family I’m building now than any fake sense of security that some mutual fund may or may not provide for me 20 years from now,” she added.

“When I'm at retirement age, around 2050, I think it's possible we'll have seen a breakdown of modern society,” Schwartzman told Salon. “I do see it as a real possibility that nuclear holocaust or environmental apocalypse will make money completely meaningless, and that reinforces my approach of living in the now. If I can find my way to saving, or creating a lot of wealth, I’ll use it to buy land and build toward self-sufficiency as a way to hopefully protect myself against the various unpleasant futures that I can see ahead of us.”

The remarkable consensus suggests that us millennials lacking traditional retirement savings plans might still have a happy retirement outlook, just not in the conventional way that previous generations did. If political organizers and mass movements succeed, we'll have a post-work, post-scarcity future to look forward to; and if not, it seems that many are committed to building their own solidarity networks, intentional communities, and like-minded cooperatives to carry us through the darker years of the 21st century.
 
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This is my absolute favorite rebuttal to communism. According to communists, capitalism is such a bad system because it exploits and encourages people's innate greed. However, they simultaneously argue that communism- a system that can only possibly work if every single person involved is selfless and noble and not tempted whatsoever to take advantage of the system- is the answer to mankind's woes.

You can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you're going to claim that capitalism is bad because people are greedy, than you better have a good explanation as to what communism will miraculously do to make people not greedy.
 
No they don't save for retirement because they have shitty jobs or want to but the newest iPhone instead.
Also aren't they (we) kind of young? I only just started saving for retirement. Aren't most millennials under 35 with many still in their 20s? I don't think it's normal to save for retirement when you are under 30.
 
Have fun dying in a state run nursing home where they only change your diaper once a week.

What on Earth is an organizer? I wonder if that means she organizes protests at college.

Lol, as if any of these tards know anything about farming or other vital skills you'd need to actually make a self sustaining community.

I also love how they either asked musicians or students that had their majors conveniently unmentioned about why they don't feel secure in any future savings plan. I mean I'm sure some fascist right wingers would argue that feminist theory, socialist literature, art degrees, and music degrees don't actually provide good paying (or any) jobs, but that's just alt-right nazi rhetoric. Obviously.

I had this revelation last night: Communism/Marxism these days is a complicated, capitalist scam. Hear me out. Ignore all ideology. Boil it down.

In the 1960s, you've got the revolutionary class. They're getting money, they're getting degrees from universities, thye're publishing in journals. The money is flowing, they're fighting for the minorities, they're uniting the white man and the black man. They're fighting for the gays. They're needed. The world needs them, they're like, revolutionary fighters man. RISE UP (And also get paid).

Then, well, the social revolution happens. Civil Rights gained nearly unanimous support and with the collapse of the power of the Christian Right, so did social issues. As long as the South didn't have to see it, it didn't cared. Turns out, once the revolution is over, you're kinda not needed.

Ruh-oh.

You have universities, books, professors, organizations, journals, journalists, activists, planners, protesters, people now in their 50s and 60s, teaching students, trying to justify their worth to university salaries. Millions upon millions of dollars on the line.....so you look around and shout, 'NO, the REVOLUTION IS NOT OVER'. Then you make up these non-existent fallacies based on dead philosophical ideals to justify why the revolution must continue. You point to these swelling classes of revolutionaries to your university chair at how you're filling these classrooms and students are paying 50 to 60k, because the REVOLUTION exists. Universities pay exorbitant fees to access humanities journals who publish fighting the patriarchy or how marrying yourself is a revolutionary act. No jobs?! While the man is holding you down, comeback to University and pay another 60k to get your Masters and see why the patriarchy is holding you down. You publish articles in these journals, give talks about how the hijab is so progressive at universities, collecting massive fees and pushing out anyone who would question your cash cow.

Still can't get a job? Don't worry man, that's just the white privelage and if you're white, we'll just ignore that. Come pay us 120k for a pHd. And once you get it, we'll pay you 5k a class, make less than minimum wage and live with 50 roomates and never get tenure.

Its all a fucking scam to remain relevant for money. It has nothing to do with ideology. It has everything to do with making money. Even when these people try to promote communism, its just capitalism hiding behind the red flag and the iron and sickle. There is no possible scenario where we will go communist in the historical fiction I wrote earlier. Its just a lie to extort money from people.


Nah.

A lot of these people have drink/pill/otherwise kill yourself to death plans, but those don't make good copy. It's true of a lot of 50 and 60-something year olds today, as well. That or work until you literally die.

Fucking "retirement" is a laughably unattainable dream for... the kind of people that don't get to be on TV. Or written about in Salon, except as a "look at these ghastly flyovers." There are literally old people living in RVs that go from distribution center to distribution center, for seasonal work, and that is now. Not 2050. I come from super white trash. Mom's "plan" is "suicide if I'm not dead by 74." Has been since I was a teenager. My mother in law will drink herself to death. That's not a stated goal, but... it's pretty obvious that is the plan. MIL lost her ass in the 00's. Retirement went *poof.*

Suicide is up. Way up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/01/health/american-death-rate-rises-for-first-time-in-a-decade.html

For my parents, 2008 eliminated anything they had. They had to rip into everything to save a house they couldn't sell and for medical insurance. They are making a little headway now, but you know, it takes time.

The problem is Obama gave the banks this massive bailout while fucking Adam Smith was rolling in his grave. He sucked that Goldman corporate cock long and deep. The problem is those sorts of people never get any justice so there's not much there.

My parents have literally said to me: "Yeah, if we get so bad we're basically shitting ourselves waiting for death, you have to kill us." (They don't tell this to my brother because he went to the 'T' in STEM and I went into the 'S'. THANKS SCIENCE, I LOVE THE TALKS YOU MAKE ME HAVE WITH MY FOLKS. AND THANKS FOR ALSO MAKING THEM KNOW THAT I KNOW HOW TO DO IT SO THAT I CAN'T BE ACCUSED OF MURDER AND THAT THEY KNOW IT SO I CAN'T LIE. EDUCATION IS COOL KIDS).

There's also the issue of wage stagnation and loans. The problem is there's really no way to raise wages without forcing jobs overseas unless you become ridiculously protectionist. The problem is right now we have a hollow. You've basically got a small middle class hanging on the fringes with varying levels of poverty all the way down, with the ultra rich slowly stepping on the fingers of the remaining middle class. I mean, who cares if we're a rich country if we look like a 3rd world hellhole? Communism is not the answer.
 
Millenials are not saving anything because there are shiny new lego sets and video games to buy, not because they truly think capitalism will be gone in the future. In fact, they're constantly celebrating capitalism while shouting how bad and evil it is. They're like illegal immigrants who go to other countries, suck welfare dry, and then insult those countries policies because they won't give them any more.
 
No they don't save for retirement because they have shitty jobs or want to but the newest iPhone instead.
Also aren't they (we) kind of young? I only just started saving for retirement. Aren't most millennials under 35 with many still in their 20s? I don't think it's normal to save for retirement when you are under 30.

We have compulsory superannuation contributions here. It's paid by your employer and a percentage of your income, but you can make additional contributions tax free. The threshold for compulsory contributions kicking in is low enough that even teenagers working fast food jobs during their high school years are accumulating superannuation.

The money you put towards your retirement in you twenties is the money which will grow the most, due to the magic of compound interest. It's not possible to predict how many years today's young adults will have to save for retirement. Retirement ages could be pushed back even further or they could be brought forward (offering early retirement was a huge thing for a while in the 1990s).

The big problem is that any retirement plan is based on assumptions about the distant future and many of those assumptions will be wrong over the long term, leaving even a lot of people who've "done the right thing" fucked.
 
The boomers expanded the economy a massive amount. They were a very productive generation. Should be Gen-Xers for spawning these morons.
Hmmm, this is the last place I'd want to have a long-winded economic debate. But, the point is that baby boomers set up a ton of programs that amount to ponzi schemes, essentially, regardless of the relative GDP growth that occurred during their generation. That's where a lot of the boomer hate spawns from.
 
The boomers expanded the economy a massive amount. They were a very productive generation. Should be Gen-Xers for spawning these morons.

Most older millennials had boomer parents. They were initially actually dubbed "echo boomers" because there was a surge of boomers having kids in the 80's and early 90's. People don't consistently have kids at 20 anymore but we keep to that for generations so overlap is becoming increasingly common.

For example, the coming wave of gen Z adults will mostly have gen X parents. We're just now getting to the point where millennials as a generation are having kids.
 
I was in Roswell during the 50th anniversary. I remember seeing some dude sitting on the curb, with a shitty bag that I'd bet held everything he owned. He was clearly waiting to be beamed up, and had probably staked his whole life on this happening. I still like imagining how fucking broken he must have been to find himself still sitting on that curb the next day.

That's what these retarded "millennials" are like.
 
I agree. Personally I did not start until I paid off my student loans though. Which would be another good reason why millennials don't save.
Yeah down the line when the phenomenon has had real consequences and people start studying why I wager that's going to be the primary reason given by millennials rather than the minority of them idiotic enough to think we're actually in late stage capitalism.
 
I'm not sure if the title of "The Worst Generation" should be bestowed upon boomers or millennials, at this point. Boomers ruined the west with shitty policies, but millennials are such a dark pit of nihilistic nothingness. I feel like all of the justifications in the OP article are literally just excuses for their high time preference/lack of ability to defer gratification. I mean, I'm not one to talk because I spend a lot of my money on booze, but I don't make excuses for it.

I say blame the source, not the product.
 
I say blame the source, not the product.
Okay, that's a fair point. Boomers were born in a time where their parents had a genuine connection to their culture which had been built over the course of thousands of years, but the only thing millennials have really had to go off of has been "FUGG YEAH FUGGEN ROCK AND ROLL FREE LOVE WOODSTOCK :DDD" from their elders. So, shitting on them and blaming them alone is kinda gay. Also, I keep saying "them" as if I'm not a millennial. >Le epic edgy outsider
 
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