Misogyny

[melty]

I used to think misogyny was something like a mental disorder. Because, like Cosmos said, it's been prevalent throughout all of human history, in every culture regardless of the status of women in that culture. A lot of loveshies will claim they learned to hate women but I don't know if I buy that. Having known some of these guys it just seems like they were always kind of that way to some extent, which is why I lumped it in with personality disorders.
On top of that, it doesn't really make sense that misandry is less prevalent. In more egalitarian cultures we have some misandrists, but it seems like more of a learned cultural thing. Why aren't there as many misandrists in cultures that actually treat women like total shit all the time?

 

[Derbydollar]

I used to think misogyny was something like a mental disorder. Because, like Cosmos said, it's been prevalent throughout all of human history, in every culture regardless of the status of women in that culture. A lot of loveshies will claim they learned to hate women but I don't know if I buy that. Having known some of these guys it just seems like they were always kind of that way to some extent, which is why I lumped it in with personality disorders.
On top of that, it doesn't really make sense that misandry is less prevalent. In more egalitarian cultures we have some misandrists, but it seems like more of a learned cultural thing. Why aren't there as many misandrists in cultures that actually treat women like total shit all the time?

There are probably actually far more misandrists in cultures were women are treated terribly, but it would be impossible to know because of the power difference between the sexes there.
If a society supports openly treating women like garbage, do you think the majority of women are going to be able to dye their hair rainbows, then write books and tumblr posts about how men are pigs?

 

[melty]

There are probably actually far more misandrists in cultures were women are treated terribly, but it would be impossible to know because of the power difference between the sexes in those places.
If a society supports openly treats women like garbage, do you think the majority of women are going to be able to dye their hair rainbows, then write books and tumblr posts about how men are pigs?

Maybe, but from what (admittedly little) I've read about such cultures, misandrists come to be that way through treatment and not some inherent quality like misogynists. They also don't quite possess the raw hatred misogynists often display.
For example, I read about an African town started by women who were sick of being mistreated by men. These were women who'd been raped, disenfranchised, treated like shit by men. Even then they would still let men in briefly for relationships and sex, and admitted they still liked men.
You see MGTOWs and the like will still want women for sex but they just seem to have this hatred I don't quite see in misandrists. On top of that they seem to be far more numerous than misandrists, like "misandry" wasn't even a word most people knew until the last five years or so when MRAs started making a big fuss about it.

 

[Cosmos]

@melty, in fact, many women who live in misogynistic cultures actually become misogynists themselves. In social justice circles the term "internalized misogyny" means "woman who disagrees with me," but it's a very real phenomenon in certain parts of the world.

Basically, women absorb so much misogyny that they actually believe that men are superior to women and women must be "kept in line." This applies to mothers with daughters as well; many mothers will simply mold their daughters into copies of themselves (read: obedient and servile wives who don't go against their husbands) instead of encouraging them to break out and be independent. Cultural norms help a lot with this process; in most patriarchal cultures, daughters are more or less guests in their parents' house. When they're old enough (usually in their teens to early twenties) they will marry someone and become a part of his family and take care of them. So girls spend their formative years learning how to be the perfect wife and mother (read: someone who cooks and cleans 24/7, doesn't say no to sex, doesn't say no ever, and so on). On the other hands, sons are the real prize. They will inherit their family's name and their things, keeping the bloodline going. They will also take care of their parents in their old age as well as marry a girl who will then devote her life to caring for him and his family. So in other words, girls are only good when they're joining the family later in life, not when they're born to one.

I think quite a lot of pettiness and bitterness enters into the equation as well. Oppressing other women gives these women a feeling of control; after all, they certainly can't talk back or stand up to any men. I think a lot of women also think things like "I had to shut up and cover myself and breed, so they [meaning the younger generation] better do it, too."

tl;dr- women in misogynistic cultures are raised from birth to be misogynistic. That's why a lot of the men in patriarchal cultures have smeared feminism and women's rights movements as "Western propaganda/degeneracy/etc" because if women actually learn that they should be supporting and encouraging each other while demanding equal rights, they don't get to keep women under their control.

 

[Coldgrip]

That's what always boggles my mind, the sheer disrespect and contempt for the gender that carried you and every other human for nine months before giving you life. Show some fucking respect.

I'm not sure about back then, but today I think a lot of it comes from third wave feminism, specifically the tumblr-haired collage kid variety. When constantly being told that you're an evil, hateful, misogynistic, rapist and that you're inferior to women because they possess a vagina you can understand that it might make some people angry. For some it goes beyond posting about how women should get back in the kitchen and becomes hate. Women, to them, become the scapegoats for all their problems.

For others they embrace it. Maybe they're tired of being treated like shit on or off-line because they have a penis, they just don't want to hear for the umpteenth time how they're the cause of all the worlds problems, about how if they so much as turn to look at a woman they're committing rape, that if they point out a flaw in an argument or speech or paper done by a woman that they're an abusive misogynist, they see how a woman could, or have had, their life ruined with a simple accusation of rape, or maybe they're just a shitty person to begin with (like our favorite Rape Ape). These people decide that because they're already "evil" they may as well act the part.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Maybe, but from what (admittedly little) I've read about such cultures, misandrists come to be that way through treatment and not some inherent quality like misogynists. They also don't quite possess the raw hatred misogynists often display.
For example, I read about an African town started by women who were sick of being mistreated by men. These were women who'd been raped, disenfranchised, treated like shit by men. Even then they would still let men in briefly for relationships and sex, and admitted they still liked men.
You see MGTOWs and the like will still want women for sex but they just seem to have this hatred I don't quite see in misandrists. On top of that they seem to be far more numerous than misandrists, like "misandry" wasn't even a word most people knew until the last five years or so when MRAs started making a big fuss about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Solanas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCUM_Manifesto
There are violent misandrists too who have a genuine hatred of men. I think they are simply less visible because female aggression is less accepted socially. I have no reason to believe that misandrists are created through experience and not biology because if that were the case then all women who experience mistreatment would become misandrists and this is not the case

 

[Cosmos]

I'm not sure about back then, but today I think a lot of it comes from third wave feminism, specifically the tumblr-haired collage kid variety. When constantly being told that you're an evil, hateful, misogynistic, rapist and that you're inferior to women because they possess a vagina you can understand that it might make some people angry. For some it goes beyond posting about how women should get back in the kitchen and becomes hate. Women, to them, become the scapegoats for all their problems.

For others they embrace it. Maybe they're tired of being treated like shit on or off-line because they have a penis, they just don't want to hear for the umpteenth time how they're the cause of all the worlds problems, about how if they so much as turn to look at a woman they're committing rape, that if they point out a flaw in an argument or speech or paper done by a woman that they're an abusive misogynist, they see how a woman could, or have had, their life ruined with a simple accusation of rape, or maybe they're just a shitty person to begin with (like our favorite Rape Ape). These people decide that because they're already "evil" they may as well act the part.

While I definitely agree that radfems are exacerbating the situation, I really don't believe that's the source. People like @Marjan Šiklić and the other loonies in the Loveshy Therapy Center/Red Pill subculture seem to have a pathological hatred of women that goes far beyond "I'm tired of being treated like a rapist-in-waiting." And while a lot of them do bitch about radfems, most of their hatred seems to stem from "why am I not getting pussy?!?!"

I just really don't get the feeling that the virulent misogynists we see online are angry because of feminism. Oh sure, it makes them angrier, but it just feels like they already had contempt for women and radfem bullshit just gives them an "excuse" to spew hatred against all women (oh, sorry, I mean sluts/whores/cunts/females/etc) everywhere.

 

[KingGeedorah]

I'm not sure about back then, but today I think a lot of it comes from third wave feminism, specifically the tumblr-haired collage kid variety. When constantly being told that you're an evil, hateful, misogynistic, rapist and that you're inferior to women because they possess a vagina you can understand that it might make some people angry. For some it goes beyond posting about how women should get back in the kitchen and becomes hate. Women, to them, become the scapegoats for all their problems.

This seems to be localized to crust punks and college kids. I've met one Femnazi in my life, and at no point were gender politics brought up. We just drank beer.

People need to develop a level of chill with each other instead of acting like bunch of autistics. But to just hate a group as a reaction seems stupid. Unless it's like ISIS or Neo Nazis.

 

[Linako 2.0]

That's what always boggles my mind, the sheer disrespect and contempt for the gender that carried you and every other human for nine months before giving you life. Show some fucking respect.

Back in ancient Sparta, only two types of Spartan citizens were gifted with headstones when they died: men who died in battle, and women who died in childbirth. Female Spartan babies were as well fed as their male counterparts, in contrast to the situation in Athens, where boys were better fed than girls, in order to have physically fit women to carry children and give birth. Spartan girls were educated and engaged in exercise as well, instead of being cloistered away like their Athenian sisters. And because Spartan men spent much of their time living in barracks or at war, it was up to Spartan women to keep things afloat back home. In fact, women were given so much power and respect (nothing like we see today, mind you, but for ancient Greece it was revolutionary) that great thinkers like Aristotle actually thought that Sparta would fall within 50 years because it had become a "gynocracy."

So why was Sparta so progressive when it came to women's rights, especially in regards to the more "enlightened" Athens? When questioned "Why are you Spartan women the only ones who can rule men?," Queen Gorgo of Sparta answered "Because we are also the only ones who give birth to men." Sparta may have been a militaristic, male-dominated, and ruthless culture, but it showed a very surprising amount of respect towards women. After all, without Spartan women there wouldn't be any Spartan men.

It's too bad that Sparta is one of the only cultures who's figured that out. Basically every patriarchal culture today shows complete contempt for women for not being men... while completely ignoring the fact that if there were no women there wouldn't be anyone to give birth to their precious sons.

I don't want to be that guy right now, but this revolutionary concept did lead to Sparta's downfall.
mostly because alll the strong men where gone when the slaves revolted in Sparta.
mind you it wasn't women who did ALL of the hardwork, it was the slaves.
just had to get that out of my chest.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I don't want to be that guy right now, but this revolutionary concept did lead to Sparta's downfall.
mostly because alll the strong men where gone when the slaves revolted in Sparta.
mind you it wasn't women who did ALL of the hardwork, it was the slaves.
just had to get that out of my chest.

We have machines now and they don't rebel

 

[on a serious note]

I'm not sure about back then, but today I think a lot of it comes from third wave feminism, specifically the tumblr-haired collage kid variety. When constantly being told that you're an evil, hateful, misogynistic, rapist and that you're inferior to women because they possess a vagina you can understand that it might make some people angry. For some it goes beyond posting about how women should get back in the kitchen and becomes hate. Women, to them, become the scapegoats for all their problems.

For others they embrace it. Maybe they're tired of being treated like shit on or off-line because they have a penis, they just don't want to hear for the umpteenth time how they're the cause of all the worlds problems, about how if they so much as turn to look at a woman they're committing rape, that if they point out a flaw in an argument or speech or paper done by a woman that they're an abusive misogynist, they see how a woman could, or have had, their life ruined with a simple accusation of rape, or maybe they're just a shitty person to begin with (like our favorite Rape Ape). These people decide that because they're already "evil" they may as well act the part.

You may need a break from the internet

 

[TheMightyMonarch]

We have machines now and they don't rebel

As of now......

 

[Linako 2.0]

We have machines now and they don't rebel

and what will happen when a mass blackout happens?

 

[Sweetpeaa]

imo the root of misogyny is a mixture of frustration and over sexualization, men have a bad habit of feeling entitled to sex, and entitled to a relationship, and the extreme sexualization of women in our society is only fueling this constant lust that people feel. Basically, we just need to teach young men early on that women aren't just there for your own pleasure if that makes any sense.

Imagine how difficult that would be to erase. One thing that might make a slight difference is putting average looking women in advertising more. And no I don't mean really fat, hairy women like some companies have done as a faux-feminist rebellion. Just average featured, average built women.

 

[queerape]

I am a woman. Misogyny certainly exists, and it’s resulted in me:

1. being groped at a public pool at the age of 9
2. Running for cover the minute the sun sets
3. Being talked to like I’m retarted just because I have larger breasts
4. People being shocked and disgusted when I admit to liking sex with men around me talk about their best lays
5. Being hit on by a teacher at age 12

shit sucks, forreal. I don’t get why troons want to be women so bad .

 

[Tismguide]

It's always seemed like a sort of dehumanization to me -- IDK about actual hate hate, which may have other causes, but the attitude some men have toward women reminds me of how one might talk about a dog. They can feel affection, love, admiration, and even recognize a woman as better than them in some narrow way within the female domain (there's this weird sort of sexist humblebrag I've seen where men will brag about how their wife is better than them at some female-coded thing and how helpless and bad they are at it, or the whole "my better half" feminine mystique trope of purity and goodness), but it always comes back to seeing them as both apart/different and lesser somehow. You'll see the same attitude crop up among some women toward men on occasion -- that they are a pet to be cared for rather than an equal (watch some daytime TV ads if you want to see examples of this). It's an understandable reaction to being treated thus by men and it sells the household products.

I think the best answer to dehumanization is integration from childhood, though I grant we've mostly had this for some time and the problem persists, and there are good reasons for much of the remaining single-sex environments (bathrooms, sports teams, etc). I'm optimistic it will gradually improve each generation. I also think that parents can play a role by helping encourage their children to perceive boys and girls as primarily the same rather than the other being weird mutant alien creatures from another planet or whatever. Teaching equality isn't enough -- you need to teach them the other gender is people if you want to break them out of a tribalist rut. And dangerhair bullshit, and the reaction to it, makes this harder than it already was.

I really do notice among people my age two very clearly distinct attitudes on gender though -- treating people like people with some differences vs some variant of two different tribes separate but equal. It's always bugged me.

As an aside, I appreciate OP's worldwide perspective on the problem.

 

[orelpuppington]

That's what always boggles my mind, the sheer disrespect and contempt for the gender that carried you and every other human for nine months before giving you life. Show some fucking respect.

Back in ancient Sparta, only two types of Spartan citizens were gifted with headstones when they died: men who died in battle, and women who died in childbirth. Female Spartan babies were as well fed as their male counterparts, in contrast to the situation in Athens, where boys were better fed than girls, in order to have physically fit women to carry children and give birth. Spartan girls were educated and engaged in exercise as well, instead of being cloistered away like their Athenian sisters. And because Spartan men spent much of their time living in barracks or at war, it was up to Spartan women to keep things afloat back home. In fact, women were given so much power and respect (nothing like we see today, mind you, but for ancient Greece it was revolutionary) that great thinkers like Aristotle actually thought that Sparta would fall within 50 years because it had become a "gynocracy."

So why was Sparta so progressive when it came to women's rights, especially in regards to the more "enlightened" Athens? When questioned "Why are you Spartan women the only ones who can rule men?," Queen Gorgo of Sparta answered "Because we are also the only ones who give birth to men." Sparta may have been a militaristic, male-dominated, and ruthless culture, but it showed a very surprising amount of respect towards women. After all, without Spartan women there wouldn't be any Spartan men.

It's too bad that Sparta is one of the only cultures who's figured that out. Basically every patriarchal culture today shows complete contempt for women for not being men... while completely ignoring the fact that if there were no women there wouldn't be anyone to give birth to their precious sons.

so basically spartans were jocks who respected women and athenians were nerds who hated women

chads and incels have truly existed throughout history....

 

[byuu]

3. Being talked to like I’m retarted just because I have larger breasts

Post them or I'm gonna assume you're just really fat.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

Honestly, some people just have a basic disdain for humanity and socializing and aren't really team players who like to settle so another human being may seem like a dragging force to them. As well, women at a very basic level find most men to literally be invisible and since most men are wired to seek female approval it can seem very offputting at the best of times and there's a minor trauma that sets in when you get rejected enough or outright burned by a mismatch. That kind of experience then seems to only intensify later on when they see women fawning over someone else entirely. Add in how atomized society has become for the past few decades and it's no wonder we have the kind of issues we have today.

 

[Balr0g]

so basically spartans were jocks who respected women and athenians were nerds who hated women

chads and incels have truly existed throughout history....

And the women haters won (how long did sparta mange to keep dominant? Not very long). Tells you something about it mysogyny huh?