Misogyny

[orelpuppington]

And the women haters won (how long did sparta mange to keep dominant? Not very long). Tells you something about it mysogyny huh?

if you wanna think about it that way, the entire country of greece in modern times is fucked economically and also every other way imaginable.

so what does that say?

 

[queerape]

Post them or I'm gonna assume you're just really fat.

 

[Pepsi-Cola]

and even recognize a woman as better than them in some narrow way within the female domain (there's this weird sort of sexist humblebrag I've seen where men will brag about how their wife is better than them at some female-coded thing and how helpless and bad they are at it, or the whole "my better half" feminine mystique trope of purity and goodness)

Not to be a negative nancy but while I understand what you're saying I think it's dumb to pretend like certain things aren't gender-coded for a reason.

Education and healthcare are careers that women have always dominated and women have always just tended to be better at. Is it because of some part of the brain that evolved to be good at it? Is it just socialization? Who knows. But typically, female teachers tend to be better than male teachers, and female nurses tend to be better than male nurses, and why should we pretend like this isn't the case? What's empowering about discouraging women from doing something that they seem naturally good at?

In the same vein, what's empowering about encouraging women to be carpenters, or lumberjacks, or police officers, or soldiers? These are jobs that require physical labor and some muscle, and it's just fact that men have a higher muscle density than women and just tend to be bigger than women in general.

There are probably really good female carpenters, and really good male nurses. But they're certainly the minority and maybe that's some kind of sexist patriarchal brainwashing or conditioning but even if it is I don't really see why it's a problem. Society functions on efficiency and while the rights of the individual are important, I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little uncomfortable with the idea of a company of women building my house vs. a company of men. Or a school full of male teachers teaching my kids.

 

[Tismguide]

Not to be a negative nancy but while I understand what you're saying I think it's dumb to pretend like certain things aren't gender-coded for a reason.

Education and healthcare are careers that women have always dominated and women have always just tended to be better at. Is it because of some part of the brain that evolved to be good at it? Is it just socialization? Who knows. But typically, female teachers tend to be better than male teachers, and female nurses tend to be better than male nurses, and why should we pretend like this isn't the case? What's empowering about discouraging women from doing something that they seem naturally good at?

In the same vein, what's empowering about encouraging women to be carpenters, or lumberjacks, or police officers, or soldiers? These are jobs that require physical labor and some muscle, and it's just fact that men have a higher muscle density than women and just tend to be bigger than women in general.

There are probably really good female carpenters, and really good male nurses. But they're certainly the minority and maybe that's some kind of sexist patriarchal brainwashing or conditioning but even if it is I don't really see why it's a problem. Society functions on efficiency and while the rights of the individual are important, I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little uncomfortable with the idea of a company of women building my house vs. a company of men. Or a school full of male teachers teaching my kids.

I'm more complaining about taking those differences to a cartoonish extreme, or fetishizing them, than denying they exist at all. Understanding that men and women are the same sort of creature with different averages in some areas vs some "men are from mars, women are from venus" bullshit. The point is to prevent closing the ranks of tribalism by gender and treating the other as subhuman. I'm aware women do that too, but am trying to stay on topic.

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

fuck women (objectively and figuratively).

 

[Sweetpeaa]

It's always seemed like a sort of dehumanization to me -- IDK about actual hate hate, which may have other causes, but the attitude some men have toward women reminds me of how one might talk about a dog. They can feel affection, love, admiration, and even recognize a woman as better than them in some narrow way within the female domain (there's this weird sort of sexist humblebrag I've seen where men will brag about how their wife is better than them at some female-coded thing and how helpless and bad they are at it, or the whole "my better half" feminine mystique trope of purity and goodness), but it always comes back to seeing them as both apart/different and lesser somehow. You'll see the same attitude crop up among some women toward men on occasion -- that they are a pet to be cared for rather than an equal (watch some daytime TV ads if you want to see examples of this). It's an understandable reaction to being treated thus by men and it sells the household products.

I think the best answer to dehumanization is integration from childhood, though I grant we've mostly had this for some time and the problem persists, and there are good reasons for much of the remaining single-sex environments (bathrooms, sports teams, etc). I'm optimistic it will gradually improve each generation. I also think that parents can play a role by helping encourage their children to perceive boys and girls as primarily the same rather than the other being weird mutant alien creatures from another planet or whatever. Teaching equality isn't enough -- you need to teach them the other gender is people if you want to break them out of a tribalist rut. And dangerhair bullshit, and the reaction to it, makes this harder than it already was.

I really do notice among people my age two very clearly distinct attitudes on gender though -- treating people like people with some differences vs some variant of two different tribes separate but equal. It's always bugged me.

As an aside, I appreciate OP's worldwide perspective on the problem.

It may be taught subliminally. Media portrayed women in ads. music videos, porn etc. as low on the totem pole as far as their human status. The rap videos in the 2000's and the lyrics that went with them were a really good example of this. Black culture back then assigned their women near ''animal status''.

Some men might not see women as fully human, And won't treat them like they'd treat their a peer of their own gender etc.

 

[Caramelo]

The only thing that makes women not being completely useless is being the incubator. Men are just capable or better at everything else.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

I think the OP's initial assumption that some of the terrible things that happen to women around the world are done because of misogyny, is wrong.

They're not done because the people doing them hate women, they're done because it keeps people in line. It's an expression of power. Dismissing the real impact of 'honour' in honour killings is incredibly foolish. Women are expected in these societies to act a certain way, and men are expected to act another. If they deviate then they are punished socially and in many cases legally. It's not an issue of sex, it's an issue of the social structure expressing power of the individuals to reinforce itself. It's no different in effect than a man paying a fine, or being stoned to death, or being hung.

There definitely are men who hate women, or resent them, or want to control them personally. All three are essentially the same thing since they get expressed in the same way; but I don't think societal wide trends like honour killings, or infilbration, or wife burning are part of that. I see those as no different to societal wide trends like assumptions of national service being valiant, or polygamy where is appears. They're ways of expressing institutional power over individuals.

The pattern of men who hate women is escalatory; it's like a mental sickness in that they keep pushing, and pushing, and pushing. They always escalate, they go from verbal, to light physical, to heavy physical, and then eventually to murder in too many cases. It's always about isolating women, depriving them of anything that would help them, keep them in a state of fear at all times. Men who hate women, like, really hate them; are sick in the head.