Modern Web Woes - I'm mad at the internet

[SchizoDaemon]

If stuff gets bad enough people will start using tor, I2P and other censorshit resistant methods

There are plenty of people already making the tech. People complain about the normies won't be using it. But they don't really use the internet anyway in anything other than the most basic fashion. They never try making or producing anything so they are essentially don't matter.

 

[Fig Kommandant]

I had the infinite cloudflare loop

Not Cloudfare in my case, I have a ton of custom search engine shortcuts set up for my browser, so I don't have to type www dot website dot com and manually click on the search field for the various sites I use daily. But that seems to trigger many sites' security/captcha extremely often. Worst offender was an e-commerce site that I was logged into with multiple purchase and they blocked me from searching for like a year because I didn't use their retarded website "properly."

 

[ToroidalBoat]

using search in Current Year:

I'LL JUST GET HOMER SIMPSON - Springfield Tomacco

Smithers: I've got to find a replacement that won't outshine me.
	  Perhaps if I searched the employee evaluations for the word
	  [types] "Incompetent"...
	   [computer reports: 714 matches found]
	  714 names? Better be more specific. [keeps typing] "lazy",
	  "clumsy", "dim-witted", "monstrously ugly"
	   [computer searches, then reports: 714 matches found]
	  Oh, nuts to this! I'll just go get Homer Simpson.
-- His reputation precedes him, "Homer the Smithers"

Homer the Smithers (at simpsonsarchive.com)

 

[Lonjil]

Its actually becoming apocalyptic I feel regarding the usage of vpns on the internet. Every fucking website, every service, blocks vpn usage now it feels like. EVERY SINGLE SITE I visit basically now has the cloudflare pop up, and 95% of the time it gives me "You have been blocked".

It feels like if you want privacy now you have to completely leave the internet save for very few sites. Its so grim

 

[Pork Wellington]

Its actually becoming apocalyptic I feel regarding the usage of vpns on the internet. Every fucking website, every service, blocks vpn usage now it feels like. EVERY SINGLE SITE I visit basically now has the cloudflare pop up, and 95% of the time it gives me "You have been blocked".

It feels like if you want privacy now you have to completely leave the internet save for very few sites. Its so grim

I've noticed this. Even bullshit sites like fucking Kmart, hardware stores and office supply sites.
I can still access my banking at least, but this has to be a concerted effort by the powers that be to completely finish off online privacy.
I dread the day VPN's are banned by my government. It has to be on their to-do list.

 

[Kiwi Lime Pie]

Its actually becoming apocalyptic I feel regarding the usage of vpns on the internet. Every fucking website, every service, blocks vpn usage now

I've noticed this. Even bullshit sites like fucking Kmart, hardware stores and office supply sites.
I can still access my banking at least, but this has to be a concerted effort by the powers that be to completely finish off online privacy.

When I first starting taking my professional education webinars, one covering cybersecurity made it a point to repeat the line, "Use a VPN!" all throughout.

In practice, however, my experiences are similar to both @Lonjil 's and @Pork Wellington 's. I can't access Office Depot or other assorted commercial sites. Logging into my bank is a crapshoot - I'll either be disallowed or be able to log in and it's 50-50 I might be unable to do anything else after logging in. And YouTube more times than not won't even let me listen any videos now if I'm on a VPN.

While I might understand why banks might be suspicious of VPN IP addresses, I also feel as if commercial sites want everyone unmasked so they can market useful demographics to the assorted online data-miners.

 

[The ATF Disliked That]

When I first starting taking my professional education webinars, one covering cybersecurity made it a point to repeat the line, "Use a VPN!" all throughout.

In practice, however, my experiences are similar to both @Lonjil 's and @Pork Wellington 's. I can't access Office Depot or other assorted commercial sites. Logging into my bank is a crapshoot - I'll either be disallowed or be able to log in and it's 50-50 I might be unable to do anything else after logging in. And YouTube more times than not won't even let me listen any videos now if I'm on a VPN.

While I might understand why banks might be suspicious of VPN IP addresses, I also feel as if commercial sites want everyone unmasked so they can market useful demographics to the assorted online data-miners.

Similar situation as well:
Every fucking jeet text scammer and political pollster are texting me in full force again. Once I get my new phone, I'm not having a proper phone number anymore, only E2EE apps. Just gonna get a data plan only on a cash purchased SIM and fake all my identities from now on.

I can't escape any fucking data brokers and their tracking, it's fucking impossible in this country and you can't tell who the fuck your data has been sent to because they don't have to list any third-parties, and then you only find out who these third parties are when they send you a sorry letter that they let your PII get stolen because their tech department is run by fucking jeets. Then Boomer politicians just don't understand how any fucking technology works and just say "oh we don't need to fix that, wait until I'm dead and gone until you do that, that's too expensive, that's [any other retarded cable news argument], that'll hurt the stock price,"

I fucking hate them all.

 

[GeorgeFloydFentanylStash]

I dread the day VPN's are banned by my government. It has to be on their to-do list.

I can see the government banning consumer VPNs while commercial VPNs will be allowed.

 

[mango_reseller]

banning consumer VPNs while commercial VPNs will be allowed

How exactly do you guys envision this happening, genuinely curious.

 

[TheHarbinger]

I can't believe how many forums have the "ad blocker detected please disable" message built right into XenForo enabled. Or that XenForo pathetically has that as an option. They are getting hard and harder to actually work around even with ublock filters. As if you don't interact with them they layer a giant white or black screen over the site which effectively locks you out.

 

[SchizoDaemon]

How exactly do you guys envision this happening, genuinely curious.

IP block the site, or blacklist payments to them.

 

[mango_reseller]

IP block the site, or blacklist payments to them.

IP block which site, the VPN site? They'd just run it as an onion service. Blacklist payments would just boost crypto payments. There is also a diminishing returns where for each step to go further you have to become 2x more totalitarian, then 5x, then 10x....

And what is known to happen when you are aggressive and crack down on Internet things is, you get people to become more tech savvy. If 10 years ago you said to someone "half the UK will be using a VPN", their argument would probably be "nobody knows what a VPN even is, grandpa wouldnt know how to use it" etc etc. I have a friend with family in Iran and the average person willing to talk with people abroad uses shadowsocks and Tor. China/Russia are kind of the same.

All that to say, I'm not really worried about VPN bans. My main concern is tracking people through OS/hardware/whatever, but just silently building a database of everyone and what they do online and only acting on it when things are very heated (i.e. never let a crisis go to waste), constantly shifting the overton window and boiling the frog more and more until people just accept it as reality. I find that infinitely more likely to work than an outright VPN ban.

 

[Curry Teafag]

IP block which site, the VPN site? They'd just run it as an onion service. Blacklist payments would just boost crypto payments. There is also a diminishing returns where for each step to go further you have to become 2x more totalitarian, then 5x, then 10x....

Depends where you live.
In the EU, they've been slowly preparing all of this. They can order the bank to grant them insight into your bank account when they have a reasonable suspicion; you may only use registered crypto service providers, so anything going to some unregistered one will trigger an investigation, anyway, no matter the crypto currency used; and so they will either find out your addresses and transactions, or charge you with the unlawful use of unregistered crypto services.

Plus, with BTC and many other cryptos, every transaction is publicly visible via free services, like the Blockchain Explorer web site. And the likes of Monero aren't supported by any registered crypto service provider because that's only possible with traceable currencies.

 

[SchizoDaemon]

IP block which site, the VPN site? They'd just run it as an onion service. Blacklist payments would just boost crypto payments. There is also a diminishing returns where for each step to go further you have to become 2x more totalitarian, then 5x, then 10x....

While this is true. The goal is to raise the barrier to entry and poison the well. The government / the state understands that there will be "hardcore" individuals like you and me that will never comply. They don't care about us. They want most people to fall in line. It is simply the numbers game.

The most difficult they make it for me, the more determined I get (to an extent). Most people don't operate that way.

And what is known to happen when you are aggressive and crack down on Internet things is, you get people to become more tech savvy. If 10 years ago you said to someone "half the UK will be using a VPN", their argument would probably be "nobody knows what a VPN even is, grandpa wouldnt know how to use it" etc etc. I have a friend with family in Iran and the average person willing to talk with people abroad uses shadowsocks and Tor. China/Russia are kind of the same.

This happens to an extent, but the way Western countries to sell a lot of legislation that removes freedoms/privacy/rights is by showing them the most egregious case e.g. some neo-nazi cretin that is planning a murder over 4chan, scary NORF FC lads like Tommy Robinson, or some crazy religious lunatic with hook for hands. This scares the big Jesus out boomers and older gen-xers. They get people to think that it is all necessary and that it should be enforced for their own good.

e.g.
I was programming in BBC BASIC when I was 8 years old on my Grandfather's computer. I am an Operating System Enthusiast, I am the sort of nerd that will install Amiga OS for fun. Furthermore, I've done Linux From Scratch. My own Father is well aware of this, he still assumed that the government knew better than I when I criticised the OSA (it happened to be a story about it on BBC News when I was visting them). My own Father realises that the government screws everyone, but still believes them when it comes to this stuff.

I get called a conspiracy theorist by some of my relatives, even after I've shown them that I was 100% correct and in some cases it was later admitted to be true by the state itself. That is how powerful the propaganda is.

All that to say, I'm not really worried about VPN bans.

I am not worried about it either. It won't affect me other than I will be buying a VPN service through Monero. What it will do because it raises the barrier for entry.

My main concern is tracking people through OS/hardware/whatever, but just silently building a database of everyone and what they do online and only acting on it when things are very heated (i.e. never let a crisis go to waste), constantly shifting the overton window and boiling the frog more and more until people just accept it as reality. I find that infinitely more likely to work than an outright VPN ban.

They won't ban VPNs, what they will do is ban all the ones that actually good to use by requiring them to log traffic and/or have users verifying themselves.

 

[mango_reseller]

They won't ban VPNs, what they will do is ban all the ones that actually good to use by requiring them to log traffic and/or have users verifying themselves.

My argument to your entire post, which I generally agree with in principle, is that the government is not that competent. Sooner or later, they overstep, take down some perfectly popular/otherwise legal content, and then their entire argument gets well poisoned instead. Like the OSA being used to attack everyone and everything in the UK (and outside of it).

And focusing on boomers might be the plan and they may be the largest voting bloc, but they're also barely on the Internet as is and they are of no real consequence. You don't even need to play the numbers game with the ones that ARE on the Internet, because they post on facebook under their real name.

In the EU, they've been slowly preparing all of this. They can order the bank to grant them insight into your bank account when they have a reasonable suspicion; you may only use registered crypto service providers, so anything going to some unregistered one will trigger an investigation, anyway, no matter the crypto currency used; and so they will either find out your addresses and transactions, or charge you with the unlawful use of unregistered crypto services.

Not to say I disagree with this, but like if your plan is doing something illegal like using an illegal VPN service, what stops you from using an illegal unlisted crypto like Monero?

Its actually becoming apocalyptic I feel regarding the usage of vpns on the internet. Every fucking website, every service, blocks vpn usage now it feels like. EVERY SINGLE SITE I visit basically now has the cloudflare pop up, and 95% of the time it gives me "You have been blocked".

I feel like I need to weigh in on this. I am near convinced that cloudflare has reputation attached to IPs, and that reputation is site independent. So basically, if you use a VPN with shared IPs (which you most likely are) then if that VPN IP gets abused by someone targetting a site protected by Cloudflare, Cloudflare will consider you using the same VPN IP as potentially malicious also, as the VPN IP's address is reputationally damaged. I understand it is annoying as shit, but I think it both makes sense and isn't exactly anti-VPN at its core, for instance if you were to use a VPN that gives you a non-shared IP (Tailscale I think does this? unsure) you won't run into this,

 

[SchizoDaemon]

My argument to your entire post, which I generally agree with in principle, is that the government is not that competent.

Well, what I would say to that while it is true that the government is often incompetent at providing public services, it can often find someone within 10 seconds if they post some spicey on Facebook, and the UK has had an excellent track record of propagandising its own citizens. I only realised how fucked it was because I lived outside the UK for years and hadn't seen any state media (which is all of it basically) for about a decade.

Sooner or later, they overstep, take down some perfectly popular/otherwise legal content, and then their entire argument gets well poisoned instead. Like the OSA being used to attack everyone and everything in the UK (and outside of it).

How they deal with this (at least in the UK) is they have some sort of benign example such as a TERF forum. There will be enquiry after public backlash, and it will be found that "provisions will be need to be made". Then they will claim that "while mistakes have been made, we have addressed the concerns", this, of course, will not address fundamental issue with the laws and that it should be abolished.

 

[Curry Teafag]

Not to say I disagree with this, but like if your plan is doing something illegal like using an illegal VPN service, what stops you from using an illegal unlisted crypto like Monero?

Technically nothing, except when they'd find out, I'd be doubly, if not triply cooked.

 

[mango_reseller]

can often find someone within 10 seconds if they post some spicey on Facebook

Well yes but that's more on Facebook having a business model built around tracking you to sell you ads and occasionally giving the government access to that tracking, than the govt being competent. Facebook will literally not only track all the IPs through which you access it, but even build a shadow profile for you even if you don't have a Facebook account in the first place. No government comes close, and few companies can match it.

hadn't seen any state media (which is all of it basically) for about a decade.

Yeah I haven't looked at any of those, I don't even want to imagine. Don't own a TV and just generally have no use for looking at govt media, only exposure I get is a bit skewed (unhinged xeets that go viral for being unhinged)

Then they will claim that "while mistakes have been made, we have addressed the concerns", this, of course, will not address fundamental issue with the laws and that it should be abolished.

Yeah naturally, that's the same everywhere. It doesn't really matter though because all it takes is for them to overstep on something popular, no amount of "we fixed these mistakes" will undo the fumble. This has happened thousands of times in every other area (corruption, industrial/transportation accidents, whatever). Do something wrong, apologize and say you've fixed it/throw someone under the bus, hope people forget by the next elections, if it's big enough you sink and the other party picks up where you left off.

I would say though that if anything the most consistent thread over the past few decades (especially since the Internet becoming popular) is governments lose more and more power, mostly to Internet companies. Which comes with both good and bad, of course, but at the end of the day the UK is at the behest of US Internet companies. Hell, even the US government might be at this point.

 

[SchizoDaemon]

Yeah naturally, that's the same everywhere. It doesn't really matter though because all it takes is for them to overstep on something popular, no amount of "we fixed these mistakes" will undo the fumble. This has happened thousands of times in every other area (corruption, industrial/transportation accidents, whatever). Do something wrong, apologize and say you've fixed it/throw someone under the bus, hope people forget by the next elections, if it's big enough you sink and the other party picks up where you left off.

Yes, I am sure it plays out everywhere. I didn't want to speak about other places as I am not as sure to how they operate.

 

[CluelessAquarium]

I can't believe how many forums have the "ad blocker detected please disable" message built right into XenForo enabled. Or that XenForo pathetically has that as an option. They are getting hard and harder to actually work around even with ublock filters. As if you don't interact with them they layer a giant white or black screen over the site which effectively locks you out.

Frankly if they have those sorts of things, I just don't use the website (unless it's so poorly made it gets disabled by Ublock's element zapper).