Monarchism

Jordan and Oman are examples of well run absolutist Monarchies too be sure. But in the modern context that is a really small pool to derive from and in the western context we don't really have any anymore. For all that though, the Prussian Monarchy was very good, historically stable and did really well against the Democracies until it was tea bagged on two sides in World War 1. The Ottoman Sultanate did really well managing the middle east for centuries too. I suppose I must ask you then what your definition of success is. For me, its stability over time and generally running the State properly, where the general population is safe in their property and lives and able to invest in the future.
Stability is not freedom. Stability is stagnation. What has Oman done? Like ever, other than sell oil? Nothing. Choice of the people leads to innovation. That is what got us to the moon. Oman never got to the moon. I will take a unstable government over a stable one every time. It's what the founders wanted.
 
Jordan and Oman are examples of well run absolutist Monarchies too be sure. But in the modern context that is a really small pool to derive from and in the western context we don't really have any anymore. For all that though, the Prussian Monarchy was very good, historically stable and did really well against the Democracies until it was tea bagged on two sides in World War 1. The Ottoman Sultanate did really well managing the middle east for centuries too. I suppose I must ask you then what your definition of success is. For me, its stability over time and generally running the State properly, where the general population is safe in their property and lives and able to invest in the future.
Jordan is not an absolutist monarchy and I spoon-fed you that example of Oman because you couldn't name a single country.

Ottomans were a hell state which drained all civilization in the Middle East to support its cursed existence and it caused irreparable damage to those societies and the local environment. Anatolia and Greece were green and forested once until braindead, Turkish land management practices destroyed the landscape. Equally as bad, the general population was tyrannized by a small elite of Turkish Muslims and their eunuch slaves. Their property was not safe nor were they safe themselves. If you consider the Mehmed II-Suleyman I era to be an example of success to monarchies, then you might as well call the Mongol Empire and the Golden Horde as models for modern civilization. Both were oppressive, Muslim shitholes that pillaged their way across Europe and Asia and left ruin in their wake.

The Prussian Monarchy was a similarly regressive state ruled by the Junkers until Bismarck forced the king and his weak Landtag to get their heads out of their asses and take advantage of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create an empire. Mind you, the moment Wilhelm II removed Bismarck and curtailed the Reichstag, Germany started its path towards collapse due to abysmal foreign policy choices led by glory hounds in the aristocracy. If you want to call that proof of monarchical domination over democracy rather than the unique talent of emperors to collapse countries within a decade, go ahead.

Again, my point is that you cannot give an example of a successful absolutist monarchy even according to your own definitions of "success". Like most monarchists, you base your ideology on pop history trivia.
 
Jordan and Oman are examples of well run absolutist Monarchies too be sure. But in the modern context that is a really small pool to derive from and in the western context we don't really have any anymore. For all that though, the Prussian Monarchy was very good, historically stable and did really well against the Democracies until it was tea bagged on two sides in World War 1. The Ottoman Sultanate did really well managing the middle east for centuries too. I suppose I must ask you then what your definition of success is. For me, its stability over time and generally running the State properly, where the general population is safe in their property and lives and able to invest in the future.
Lolno. WWI Germany was more democratic than WWI Russia, the epitome of absolutism, and did better on the battlefield than the latter. They were less democratic than France or Britain or the US, and certainly did a lot worse on the battlefield given they lost. A bunch of their generals came from illustrious families founded by medieval knights who produced soldiers and generals for centuries. Meanwhile they were defeated by France, among whose famous marshals was the son of vineyard owners (Joffre) and a guy from a peasant family (Petain). Neither of them would have the positions they did if France was a monarchy. And don't even get me started on the USSR's generals vs aristocratic Wehrmacht generals like Manstein, Bock, or Kleist. The Soviets turned borderline illiterate peasants into successful generals.
Ottomans were a hell state which drained all civilization in the Middle East to support its cursed existence and it caused irreparable damage to those societies and the local environment. Anatolia and Greece were green and forested once until braindead, Turkish land management practices destroyed the landscape. Equally as bad, the general population was tyrannized by a small elite of Turkish Muslims and their eunuch slaves. Their property was not safe nor were they safe themselves. If you consider the Mehmed II-Suleyman I era to be an example of success to monarchies, then you might as well call the Mongol Empire and the Golden Horde as models for modern civilization. Both were oppressive, Muslim shitholes that pillaged their way across Europe and Asia and left ruin in their wake.
Why do you bring up "pop history" when you make bizarre claims like this? The Ottomans didn't deforest Anatolia or Greece because they were deforested no later than the early Middle Ages. Romans really liked their baths, you see. In Anatolia the forests never came back because it was a giant warzone for centuries between the Byzantines and Arabs and the only logical lifestyle was herding goats and sheep. Modern Turks are barely distinguishable from Greeks and Armenians because it was easy for those shepherd communities to join their Turkish neighbors and become Muslims to avoid paying jizya.

And same thing with the usual "hurr durr Mongols brought ruin" which is pop history repeated in part by leftists who think they ended the "Islamic Golden Age" where Muzzies were some hyper-tolerant society one step from inventing the Superior Future. The Mongols everything they wrecked and had their empire not fallen apart this process would have continued. Interestingly for OP's sake, it was due to the failure of the concept of superior bloodlines. It turns out being descended from a guy who conquered half the world doesn't make you so special, and most of those princes were just drains on the state who mostly sat around getting drunk all day in-between taking bribes from nobles to put their favorite prince installed as the next khan. Their emirs were the ones who did most everything, and they'd have violent civil wars that eventually resulted in the emirs (i.e. Timur) making their own countries. A non-monarchy would offer the emirs easier paths to taking power from useless puppet rulers.
 
And don't even get me started on the USSR's generals vs aristocratic Wehrmacht generals like Manstein, Bock, or Kleist. The Soviets turned borderline illiterate peasants into successful generals.
Your "successful generals" were responsible for one of the most embarrassing wars in human history, the one in which Russian aristocrat Mannerheim wiped the floor with illiterate ukrainains who couldn't pass primary school but were appointed to lead armies out of nepotism
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Lol the republican system has actively promoted societal decay, division and the weakening of national identity in my country. In 70 years we've been turned into Europe's most docile self-loathing niggercattle after the krauts, and don't blame us because the referendum that installed the republic was rigged and gay anyway.
Did the republican system do that? Or is it your people's iniquitousness that caused them to sell out their own for personal gain?
 
Did the republican system do that? Or is it your people's iniquitousness that caused them to sell out their own for personal gain?
Yes, the republican politicians are to blame for this. Our republican constitution is nothing but an instrument to cement the elite's political power, it has been since day 1, and is seen as legitimate only because of copious amounts of propaganda. Most of the political class that wrote it would end up joining gayops like Gladio and the P2 lodge.

The end of the monarchy was just a thinly veiled powergrab by political parties that proceded to carve up the country's social and political sphere among themselves. Even though the various parties would then immediately begin fighting among themselves for a bigger share of the pie, they always came together when it came to peddling lies to people and their successors have continued this. That should tell you just how morally bankrupt the Italian republic is in it's essence.

Nothing will change in this country because for now, the system has basically won and we've been sunk into complete apathy and passive acceptance. Everyone is on massive doses of copium about how we've got "the world's most beautiful constitution" (no one outside Italy gives half a shit) and how we're "a democratic republic founded on work" (constitutional reform is basically impossible, voting is worthless due to comical electoral laws and because no party really wants to change anything, there are no jobs).
 
The real engine of social decay is central banking and technology, as well as the growth in size of the nation-state. The solution has to involve some kind of disintegration into smaller state forms - which is significantly more important than a superficial change in political model. I think it is infeasible to have a massive nation-state governed according to sensible monarchical or republican principles.
 
The real engine of social decay is central banking and technology, as well as the growth in size of the nation-state. The solution has to involve some kind of disintegration into smaller state forms - which is significantly more important than a superficial change in political model. I think it is infeasible to have a massive nation-state governed according to sensible monarchical or republican principles.
Issue is that a smaller country will always lose to the larger country. There's a reason Europe is completely dependent on the USA.
 
Your "successful generals" were responsible for one of the most embarrassing wars in human history, the one in which Russian aristocrat Mannerheim wiped the floor with illiterate ukrainains who couldn't pass primary school but were appointed to lead armies out of nepotism
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The Finns were defending against foreign invasion, that totally changes the dynamic, and Stalin was a fool who purged and shot his most capable officers up to and after the Winter War leaving the country vulnerable.

Timoshenko did an excellent job driving the Nazi invaders back from the Caucasus and coordinated successful offensives to liberate territory across multiple fronts in 1943-1944. Meretskov himself saved Leningrad from being totally starved into submission by opening the Road of Life.

I will say in defense of the German generals they were continually hamstrung and overridden by the Austrian corporal and his stupid ideas. They were extremely capable.
 
I started laughing when I realized that @YHWH's Strongest Soldier was not memeing when he said that OP is a monarchist because he saw it in an anime, somehow I glossed over the fact that he posted an anime speech as part of his argument lmao.

The conversation was over when you were told that you want monarchy because you want the king to rule in the way you want and that you will call the king tyrannical if he does the opposite, and your response to this was that "That's how all Government works.", if you think it's the same then why change it? Lmao.

You thinking than a Duke has the same power as a CEO who makes 2 million a year makes you retarded too, the Duke could torture you to death, rape your wife and castrate your children if he wanted too, and this is somehow the same as a person with a good job and money, because if you get in a car accident with them bad things will happen to you or something, if you think the CEO of a company with 300 employees is a Duke then you must think Elon Musk has the same power as Charlemagne.

Are you pretending to be retarded to get attention because you have no friends or do you actually think that the UK is a monarchy?
 
The real engine of social decay is central banking and technology, as well as the growth in size of the nation-state. The solution has to involve some kind of disintegration into smaller state forms - which is significantly more important than a superficial change in political model. I think it is infeasible to have a massive nation-state governed according to sensible monarchical or republican principles.
The rise of centralized nation-states corresponds with the fall of monarchies, these things aren't separate. Monarchists were always in favor of local autonomy as opposed to centralized representative democracy.

The Finns were defending against foreign invasion, that totally changes the dynamic
Russian Empire conquered Finland in a couple of months mind you. I don't think the dynamic would stay the same if Mannerheim was in charge of Russian army and Voroshilov was the one defending Finnish Socialist Republic.
Stalin was a fool who purged and shot his most capable officers up to and after the Winter War leaving the country vulnerable.
This brings us back to the topic of the monarchy. In a state where changes in leadership are common the leader will always feel weak and threatened, as such he will try to remove anyone who's smarter and more talented than him due to fear of being replaced. This is especially true in meritocracies, where your right to rule is justified by the fact that you are better than everyone else. In a monarchy your right to rule is secured through your bloodline, as such you don't feel threatened by the presence of more competent people and the king can surround himself with advisors who know more than him. There have been cases where this has been untrue, but it's more about failing to adhere to the principles of the monarchy than the fault of the monarchy itself.
 
De facto monarchies depend on a bureaucratic deepstate for their day-to-day function. How well the sovereign's orders are interpreted or carried out depends on the particular official in question. The sovereign can't be everywhere; he is not god. This necessarily requires the delegation of authority. Thus, ostensible rule by a monarch is really rule by his appointed lackeys.
Ah yes checks notes the massive security state that monitors every single thing you're doing oh wait that's the United States and the Soviet Union and communist China yes there was secret police in Russia during the empire but do you know what they mainly prosecuted people attempting to overthrow the government not random citizens going about the day-to-day business they also weren't trying to turn your sons into homosexuals.

Also meritocracy is much more existent in aristocratic system if you're complete and out of scumbag the king is gonna cast you down if you lead a successful charge capturing half of the enemy's guns you're going to be given land a title and a fancy sword are you gonna get in the United states is a piece of ribbon and no special money or special title die for king and country not for the petty whims of ideological Democrats
 
The real engine of social decay is central banking and technology, as well as the growth in size of the nation-state. The solution has to involve some kind of disintegration into smaller state forms - which is significantly more important than a superficial change in political model. I think it is infeasible to have a massive nation-state governed according to sensible monarchical or republican principles.
Modern China and Russia beg to differ. Those are very centralized states but clearly have proven resilient to social decay. I do agree that large bureaucracies can be extremely dangerous when the state is morally decaying since it entrenches evil, as we see right now in the West. And technology is a no brainer for its contribution to how fucked up society is these days. That said I do favor a decentralized state, like in the US that's what we call "states' rights."
The rise of centralized nation-states corresponds with the fall of monarchies, these things aren't separate. Monarchists were always in favor of local autonomy as opposed to centralized representative democracy.
The rise of centralized nation-states was a consequence of economics favoring the guy who had the most money, and that wasn't some random count or duke but the king, who could actually afford things like well-trained standing armies or hiring the best engineers to make the best forts. Sure, the French revolutionaries were very centralized, but they just continued in the footsteps of Louis XIV who didn't give two shits about local or regional autonomy. Happened everywhere in Europe, like in 1714 the Spanish king suppressed all the regional laws in his country and put them under Castillian law. The 18th century Russian tsars were similar centrist and revoked plenty of noble privileges.
Also meritocracy is much more existent in aristocratic system if you're complete and out of scumbag the king is gonna cast you down if you lead a successful charge capturing half of the enemy's guns you're going to be given land a title and a fancy sword are you gonna get in the United states is a piece of ribbon and no special money or special title die for king and country not for the petty whims of ideological Democrats
Lmao no it isn't, the king is just as likely to throw you in prison or execute you as a potential threat to the stability of the state. Look at all the successful generals who got assassinated by their ruler because they were terrified of them.
 
Lmao no it isn't, the king is just as likely to throw you in prison or execute you as a potential threat to the stability of the state. Look at all the successful generals who got assassinated by their ruler because they were terrified of them.
Kill bookings attack the noble generals kings that are loved promote them six books on the Commonwealth goes into this if you start off with the bad king his roots do not go deep enough but if you are followed by a terrible son and you were a good king people remember you and within your son most kings are pretty mediocre but I'd rather have a mediocre king the mediocre president
 
Issue is that a smaller country will always lose to the larger country. There's a reason Europe is completely dependent on the USA.
This is not always true, and it certainly isn't the case in a scenario of nuclear proliferation or bio-weapons.

The rise of centralized nation-states corresponds with the fall of monarchies, these things aren't separate. Monarchists were always in favor of local autonomy as opposed to centralized representative democracy.
The establishment of a "monarchy" would not by itself mean greater local autonomy, whether self-described monarchists support it or not. Unless there is a fundamental change in the size and scope of the nation-state, as well as changes to basic monetary policy and technological conditions of that society, there is little possibility of having a functional monarchical or republican system in the first place. It will replicate all the same failures of the current political model. Monarchists are not working from a vacuum. Monarchies ceded power to these very institutions before, and royalty within various modern states today is hardly at odds with the central banking system or the deep state. It's a problem of implementing monarchy as a practical extension of current conditions.

Modern China and Russia beg to differ
You say "modern China and Russia" as if both of them haven't had massive governmental change and collapse in the last 40 years. Just because they don't allow trannies in their media doesn't mean they aren't undergoing their own kind of societal decay. In fact, in China in particular, I'd say government overreach is a significant contributor to its societal decline.
 
This is not always true, and it certainly isn't the case in a scenario of nuclear proliferation or bio-weapons.
I could easily point to Israel as an example where nuclear capabilities don't protect a country from being fucked with by funding local militias or waging economic warfare.
 
East Asian monarchy where the king picked between eldest sons of favorite wives/concubines very often resulted in mass purges and political persecutions or coups when the king wasn't powerful enough to choose.
The ancient east Asian cases of purges, at least in Han China came from a series of very interesting and well intentioned ideas of basing the state on landowning peasants.
A TL;DR would be that the Qin state, taxation and laws encouraged households to only retain one adult son in it, massively taxing the household if more than one son remained. The other sons would be encouraged and provided plots of land (the outlines of which can still be seen today in some areas in China) on which to settle and make their own families in. Such policies created massive wealth, a pool of labour and conscripts and shattered the pre-existing tribes in China. It was a very intelligent policy to which plenty of other successful historical regimes can draw parallels to, like the Roman republic with their legionaries, the eastern Roman empire with the farmer soldiers, the Muscovite state during its heyday
This, combined with policies aimed at preventing landloridsm (and by extension, land acquisition as a way of empowerment), the rightfully critical and harsh stance towards merchants (and likewise, the elimination of wealth as a method of empowerment), created a situation in which the only real method for political power was the creation of social cliques or clans, connected by a mixture of personal and blood relations, marriages, friendships and agreements. Such clans were very powerful and influential, but not really having a strong centre/figurehead nor anything confiscatable, were very resilient, which is why mass purges were the only real way of dealing with them.
 
I could easily point to Israel as an example where nuclear capabilities don't protect a country from being fucked with by funding local militias or waging economic warfare.
And I could easily point to Afghanistan or Vietnam as examples of where even countries without nuclear capabilities were able to resist foreign incursion by a much larger country - multiple times. Israel is one of the worst examples you could give to prove your point. They are surrounded by hostile states, many of which ARE larger than them, Iran is nearly 10 times larger by population size alone. Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan... all of them are significantly larger than Israel. And yet Israel is able to not only survive, but also continually expand its territory. Now, I know you can point to US aid to Israel as some kind of complicating factor, and it would be. Except your claim, which is stupid, was that a smaller country always loses. Clearly, it doesn't.
 
And I could easily point to Afghanistan or Vietnam as examples of where even countries without nuclear capabilities were able to resist foreign incursion by a much larger country - multiple times. Israel is one of the worst examples you could give to prove your point. They are surrounded by hostile states, many of which ARE larger than them, Iran is nearly 10 times larger by population size alone. Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan... all of them are significantly larger than Israel. And yet Israel is able to not only survive, but also continually expand its territory. Now, I know you can point to US aid to Israel as some kind of complicating factor, and it would be. Except your claim, which is stupid, was that a smaller country always loses. Clearly, it doesn't.
I disagree. Afghanistan is a barbaric shithole that even its own terrorist leadership barely controls.
Vietnam was just a pawn in the USA vs. Soviet Russia struggle.
Israel itself needs the USA veto in the UN since otherwise the automatic Muslim country majority would be able to do crippling sanctions against them
 
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