Mystery Science Theater 3000 and Rifftrax

[Starscreams Cape]

I thought this was settled. "Monster A-Go-Go" is the worst movie they did. Period. They had half a movie and tacked on an ending that was filmed years later that essentially said "none of the earlier movie actually happened".

It's simply abysmal and will either put you to sleep or cause you to turn it off. I remember for years fans saying "even the riffing couldn't save Hamlet!", which was utter bullshit. Hamlet is a great episode with fine riffing. "Monster A-Go-Go" was an episode the riffing couldn't even come close to saving.

 

[Commander X]

Of the Coleman Francis trilogy, Beast of Yucca Flats is starkly anti-cinematography and deadening, Skydivers is just weird and flat and barren and Red Zone Cuba is the "high point".

"Monster A-Go-Go" was a failed Bill Rebane project that was bought up and released by H. G. Lewis, thus making it the ultimate fusion of terrible Midwestern low-budget filmmaking.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

there'll be no bad talking The Beast of Yucca Flats in this thread

 

[Starscreams Cape]

I'd

there'll be no bad talking The Beast of Yucca Flats in this thread

I'd have to agree that "Beast" is pretty darn close to "Monster-A-Go-Go". The fact that he could not record dialog, the weird narration, the "anti-cinemetography." "Skydivers" and "RZCuba" at least had characters and told a rudimentary story. "Beast" was the missing link between fake documentary and actual drama.

Although Tor was the shining light of the movie if that makes you feel better.

 

[XYZpdq]

I recall somebody online running with the idea of that riff of "Coleman Francis had a dark and muddy vision. . . with cars." that Francis really was trying to convey the grim darkness of endless depressing boredom punctuated sporadically by betrayal (and cars) through his own inept filmmaking, as evidenced by the fact he was a part of Hollywood enough to be in This Island Earth but still trying to make movies while not being part of the system, his love for filming naked women, and his "suicide".
but yeah his movies are still kinda shit, but they have a relatively coherent story from start to finish
Monster A Go Go was largely a fun episode but probably one of the worst movies they covered
I can sorta see why the Brains would go with Kitten With A Whip but it never really clicked with me as an episode, and in hindsight reminds me of a lot of the "decent enough but unremarkable" Rifftrax on big Hollywood shit that's not even worth mocking.

Million Eyes of Sumuru has a sorta Pauly Shore really-very-amazingly-unfunny comedy vibe mixed with a shit pan and scan on a washed out print, and is basically Castle Of Fu Manchu with less unlit scenes of nothing.

 

[Someone in a Tree]

Frank Conniff was once being interviewed about the lasting appeal of the Manos episode and said that he thought the Coleman Francis movie were just as bad if not worse, but those episodes didn’t take off with the fan base the way Manos did, conceding that Hal Warren did make some creative decisions that made that film appealing. I think one of the things that helps Manos is that it has a very simple story, meaning that it’s easy to follow what is going on even with all the directorial incompetence. Monster A-Go-Go, Castle of Fu Manchu, Mighty Jack, and Red Zone Cuba are waaaaaay more incomprehensible by comparison.

 

[Flexo]

Of the Coleman Francis trilogy, Beast of Yucca Flats is starkly anti-cinematography and deadening, Skydivers is just weird and flat and barren and Red Zone Cuba is the "high point".

"Monster A-Go-Go" was a failed Bill Rebane project that was bought up and released by H. G. Lewis, thus making it the ultimate fusion of terrible Midwestern low-budget filmmaking.

I did love SFDebris' point that Coleman Francis is so inept his movies nearly come across as some kind of avant-garde experimentalism.

I don't see an immediate connection between the two?
seems Journey guy is gay af but it looks like he did an early Puppetmaster and seems to be a pretty reliable solid hand at crap movies glancing at his IMDB so I'm not gonna hate

I couldn't find this clip alone so this should be timestamped to the 9:10 mark which explains... everything.

It's honestly not even close to being the worst movie. It's a pretty fun insanely 80s thing. You can kinda respect directors who just set out to make a film with like zero dollars.

Worst is probably Red Zone Cuba.

No. Hobgoblins is a bad movie. It's legitimately bad. But it's the fun, entertainingly kind of bad film that stuff like mst3k and rifftrax was made for.

What's extra ironic is that watching the uncut riff film at their live show, I learned MsT3K had actually cut a few scenes out of the movie and IMPROVED it with the edit.

Also was a bit disappointed. In trying to not repeat themselves, the guys seemed to have run out of jokes. Mst3k really did it perfectly the first time.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

I can sorta see why the Brains would go with Kitten With A Whip but it never really clicked with me as an episode, and in hindsight reminds me of a lot of the "decent enough but unremarkable" Rifftrax on big Hollywood shit that's not even worth mocking.

Them choosing "Kitten" probably involved external factors like them having a bad week in general. It was a fairly competent but unremarkable movie. It did feature two rather big stars, too.

I always liked it because...well...Ann Margret playing a slightly crazy nympho is right up my alley.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

No. Hobgoblins is a bad movie. It's legitimately bad. But it's the fun, entertainingly kind of bad film that stuff like mst3k and rifftrax was made for.

I could genuinely enjoy Hobgoblins without any riffing over it.

At least I could figure out what the director was trying to do. With Coleman I have no clue.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Speaking of Castle of Fu Manchu, aside from some early rough episodes, I remember that being the first episode I was really bored watching. It's baffling the film makers were able to create a movie about Christopher Lee playing a Chinese supervillain and make it so incredibly boring.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

Speaking of Castle of Fu Manchu, aside from some early rough episodes, I remember that being the first episode I was really bored watching. It's baffling the film makers were able to create a movie about Christopher Lee playing a Chinese supervillain and make it so incredibly boring.

It really is a hard film to follow. I always throw on the MST3K 24/7 channel in the background while I'm working at home. When I woke up today Fu was the one on. A complete mess.

 

[HumanHive]

there'll be no bad talking The Beast of Yucca Flats in this thread

Agreed. Beast is a cinematic masterpiece.

You want to talk about bad movies. Talk about Mixed Up Zombies and Wild Wild World of Catwoman. Now THOSE are bad movies.

 

[XYZpdq]

Frank Conniff was once being interviewed about the lasting appeal of the Manos episode and said that he thought the Coleman Francis movie were just as bad if not worse, but those episodes didn’t take off with the fan base the way Manos did, conceding that Hal Warren did make some creative decisions that made that film appealing. I think one of the things that helps Manos is that it has a very simple story, meaning that it’s easy to follow what is going on even with all the directorial incompetence. Monster A-Go-Go, Castle of Fu Manchu, Mighty Jack, and Red Zone Cuba are waaaaaay more incomprehensible by comparison.

Manos is in color, it makes it a lot easier to follow who is who and what is what. Francis is dreary grey lumps standing around dreary grey lumps.
from what I've heard Mighty Jack wasn't so bad in the original series
but yeah Manos is certainly lacking in lots of ways, but Torgo is very memorable, and at its core it's a decent enough narrative

Agreed. Beast is a cinematic masterpiece.

You want to talk about bad movies. Talk about Mixed Up Zombies and Wild Wild World of Catwoman. Now THOSE are bad movies.

Batwoman was another one of those "movie loaf" ones, iirc Warren lifted footage from some Danish thriller and one of the other Aztec Mummy movies, I think the second?

Them choosing "Kitten" probably involved external factors like them having a bad week in general. It was a fairly competent but unremarkable movie. It did feature two rather big stars, too.

I always liked it because...well...Ann Margret playing a slightly crazy nympho is right up my alley.

View attachment 2532530

Space Travelers worked better for me as a "wait, this is a real movie with real actors, who let this on MST" riffing attempt.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

Manos is in color, it makes it a lot easier to follow who is who and what is what. Francis is dreary grey lumps standing around dreary grey lumps.
from what I've heard Mighty Jack wasn't so bad in the original series
but yeah Manos is certainly lacking in lots of ways, but Torgo is very memorable, and at its core it's a decent enough narrative

The movie does a halfway decent job of setting a scene of isolation and, if properly executed, horror. The problem of course is that the dialog is ridiculous and Torgo is absurd. The Master is actually not that bad in my opinion as a villain. In the hands of an experienced director it might have amounted to something.

The only funny thing I got out of the Rifftrax re-riff was when The Master says"arise" to his brides and, as they begin their caterwalling, Mike immediately says "un-arise!".

 

[XYZpdq]

The movie does a halfway decent job of setting a scene of isolation and, if properly executed, horror. The problem of course is that the dialog is ridiculous and Torgo is absurd. The Master is actually not that bad in my opinion as a villain. In the hands of an experienced director it might have amounted to something.

yeah, it could make a pretty decent cult classic no-budget horror short at maybe a thirty minute or so run time

 

[eternal dog mongler]

yeah, it could make a pretty decent cult classic no-budget horror short at maybe a thirty minute or so run time

That could actually work.

The main problem with Manos is that Torgo carrying in their luggage followed immediately by the family seeing creepy shit inside ruins any suspension of disbelief. like just run nigga nothing good is happening here

 

[XYZpdq]

like just run nigga nothing good is happening here

that's about 60% of all horror movies

 

[HumanHive]

The movie does a halfway decent job of setting a scene of isolation and, if properly executed, horror. The problem of course is that the dialog is ridiculous and Torgo is absurd. The Master is actually not that bad in my opinion as a villain. In the hands of an experienced director it might have amounted to something.

The only funny thing I got out of the Rifftrax re-riff was when The Master says"arise" to his brides and, as they begin their caterwalling, Mike immediately says "un-arise!".

Yeah, I think if you expanded the plot just a little to add more scares, Manos could be a legitimate horror movie. The ending is utterly bleak, a complete contrast with most bad movies that end traditionally. The disgusted reaction from the MST3k crew is pretty rare to earn all on its own.

 

[XYZpdq]

until I found out Debbie was cool with Manos's fame I was vague concerns that it was some sort of front for making porn with her in it

 

[ditto]

I can sorta see why the Brains would go with Kitten With A Whip but it never really clicked with me as an episode, and in hindsight reminds me of a lot of the "decent enough but unremarkable" Rifftrax on big Hollywood shit that's not even worth mocking.

Kitten is the most frustrating movie they've ever done. Everything that happens is because the protagonist is so rock stupid and can't stop lying.
And he gets away with it in the end but he abolutely doesn't deserve to.