NASCAR Discussion - Sperg out about four left turns here

[A.P. Hill]

The next generation? It's rampant among the younger members of the current one.

The current generation is made up exclusively of guys who've had Daddy pay for their entire careers. They have no incentive not to go checkers or wreckers every single race, because they've never had to pull an all-nighter fixing their mangled midget after pulling a stupid move. They just buy a new one, or more likely, rage quit their iracing lobby after sending it for 5th place and wrecking the field.

We have this perception that the Nascar ladder is somehow free from rich kids and pay drivers when nothing could be further from the truth. Hell, Riley Herbst scored a top Cup ride despite 5 years of doing sweet jack shit in some of the best Busch equipment.

 

[Mikoyan]

The current generation is made up exclusively of guys who've had Daddy pay for their entire careers. They have no incentive not to go checkers or wreckers every single race, because they've never had to pull an all-nighter fixing their mangled midget after pulling a stupid move. They just buy a new one, or more likely, rage quit their iracing lobby after sending it for 5th place and wrecking the field.

We have this perception that the Nascar ladder is somehow free from rich kids and pay drivers when nothing could be further from the truth. Hell, Riley Herbst scored a top Cup ride despite 5 years of doing sweet jack shit in some of the best Busch equipment.

Yes. I mean, yes. I was just looking at some people on Racer yesterday talking about how (Indycar driver) Conor Daly hustles more than the awful pay drivers going around lately. And he does, for certain. But even Daly, would he have anything he's had in his career if his dad wasn't Derek Daly and his stepdad was (IRL team owner and current IMS president) Doug Boles? Nnno.

It's connected and/or rich kids all the way down. The cope currently is 'but it's always been that way' which is kind of true, but racing, even high level racing, used to be cheap enough that if you honed your life down to day job and your own race team, if you put in all the effort and work and had talent, even the middle class could break in. Ain't no J.D. McDuffies anymore, and to the extent they mention him there's usually a little 'Well thank god we don't let equipment like that into the series anymore.'

 

[Breadbassket]

Yes. I mean, yes. I was just looking at some people on Racer yesterday talking about how (Indycar driver) Conor Daly hustles more than the awful pay drivers going around lately. And he does, for certain. But even Daly, would he have anything he's had in his career if his dad wasn't Derek Daly and his stepdad was (IRL team owner and current IMS president) Doug Boles? Nnno.

It's connected and/or rich kids all the way down. The cope currently is 'but it's always been that way' which is kind of true, but racing, even high level racing, used to be cheap enough that if you honed your life down to day job and your own race team, if you put in all the effort and work and had talent, even the middle class could break in. Ain't no J.D. McDuffies anymore, and to the extent they mention him there's usually a little 'Well thank god we don't let equipment like that into the series anymore.'

Perhaps it was always inevitable but NASCAR turning from something that was made by working class men and outlaws into a competition dominated by often mediocre second or third generation asphalt aristocrats, nepotism and wealth is a sad state of affairs. Perhaps once they got away from the more "stock" aspects of stock car racing and went to specially made cars it was going to go this way eventually since the barrier of entry got much, much higher in terms of cost.

 

[The Grognard]

Yes. I mean, yes. I was just looking at some people on Racer yesterday talking about how (Indycar driver) Conor Daly hustles more than the awful pay drivers going around lately. And he does, for certain. But even Daly, would he have anything he's had in his career if his dad wasn't Derek Daly and his stepdad was (IRL team owner and current IMS president) Doug Boles? Nnno.

It's connected and/or rich kids all the way down. The cope currently is 'but it's always been that way' which is kind of true, but racing, even high level racing, used to be cheap enough that if you honed your life down to day job and your own race team, if you put in all the effort and work and had talent, even the middle class could break in. Ain't no J.D. McDuffies anymore, and to the extent they mention him there's usually a little 'Well thank god we don't let equipment like that into the series anymore.'

This is a problem in pretty much every form of motorsports now. There's not much incentive for companies to throw sponsor money around either like in the heyday of tobacco advertising where all you really had to do was get that foot in early and that's your golden ticket to the big leagues. Only Red Bull seems to being doing it anymore and they are a fickle bunch who happily chew thru drivers who don't perform with ruthless efficiency.

Perhaps it was always inevitable but NASCAR turning from something that was made by working class men and outlaws into a competition dominated by often mediocre second or third generation asphalt aristocrats, nepotism and wealth is a sad state of affairs. Perhaps once they got away from the more "stock" aspects of stock car racing and went to specially made cars it was going to go this way eventually since the barrier of entry got much, much higher in terms of cost.

You really can't reverse the course of costs. People expect bigger and better events, the safety margin always aims to be higher and even in a series where everyone effectively drives the same car, spending more still gives you more of an edge over the others because you have more spares and better mechanics to do the set-up. That said, grassroots of racing are still fun to watch regardless of where you are and people still have the most fun doing that.

 

[Mikoyan]

Perhaps it was always inevitable but NASCAR turning from something that was made by working class men and outlaws into a competition dominated by often mediocre second or third generation asphalt aristocrats, nepotism and wealth is a sad state of affairs. Perhaps once they got away from the more "stock" aspects of stock car racing and went to specially made cars it was going to go this way eventually since the barrier of entry got much, much higher in terms of cost.

When they moved from stock bodies it was also only a matter of time before there were no cars that could be run stock. FWD wonders made out of tinfoil origami don't manage running 220 at 'dega.

This is a problem in pretty much every form of motorsports now. There's not much incentive for companies to throw sponsor money around either like in the heyday of tobacco advertising where all you really had to do was get that foot in early and that's your golden ticket to the big leagues.

I can't wait for the inevitable era where cars are allowed to be plastered with weed ads but cigs are still some otherworldly evil that can never be considered.

 

[The Grognard]

When they moved from stock bodies it was also only a matter of time before there were no cars that could be run stock. FWD wonders made out of tinfoil origami don't manage running 220 at 'dega.

Indeed. On the other hand, the European counterparts to NASCAR during their peak did show that hot sedans driven very hard made for great racing as long as you have some good road courses and a relaxed attitude towards contact.

 

[Mikoyan]

Indeed. On the other hand, the European counterparts to NASCAR during their peak did show that hot sedans driven very hard made for great racing as long as you have some good road courses and a relaxed attitude towards contact.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=t6JcYLeW1K0

CART brought the supertouring formula over but it didn't last. It had great racing.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

Why don't they bring back the points system?

because its easy to game? Matt Kennseth did it by accident but its obvious that if they didn't switch shit up then at some point one of the retards would have realized they can coast to victory in 9th all the time, suddenly the entire meta changes. its like complaining about moneyball, like at some point someone would have figured it out.

J.D. McDuffies

thats an old name, was there any non-rich/nepos that were able to work their way into nascar and actually be good? this guy was Danica tier at nascar.

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

JR Motorsports showed off 3 paint schemes for the 8's return to the Xfinity series.

They all kinda suck ass in my opinion. the Pilot car is easily my least favorite, the Allstate is probably the best? I feel like paint schemes shat the bed in the last few years, and none of these really stick out. The 8 deserved a better scheme for its return.

 

[A.P. Hill]

I can't wait for the inevitable era where cars are allowed to be plastered with weed ads but cigs are still some otherworldly evil that can never be considered.

They've already got Weed and Synthetic Weed and Nic Pouch cars all over the place but Cig cars are banned because ZOMG THEY MIGHT GET THE KIDDIES ADDICTED AND KILL THEM!!!!

 

[Mikoyan]

thats an old name, was there any non-rich/nepos that were able to work their way into nascar and actually be good? this guy was Danica tier at nascar.

Trying not to go too early, but: The Parsons Brothers, Harry Gant, the Labontes, the Wallaces (who were only a race family at the local level), Jeff Gordon.... And I think that's enough for now.

 

[A.P. Hill]

Yes. I mean, yes. I was just looking at some people on Racer yesterday talking about how (Indycar driver) Conor Daly hustles more than the awful pay drivers going around lately. And he does, for certain. But even Daly, would he have anything he's had in his career if his dad wasn't Derek Daly and his stepdad was (IRL team owner and current IMS president) Doug Boles? Nnno.

It's connected and/or rich kids all the way down. The cope currently is 'but it's always been that way' which is kind of true, but racing, even high level racing, used to be cheap enough that if you honed your life down to day job and your own race team, if you put in all the effort and work and had talent, even the middle class could break in. Ain't no J.D. McDuffies anymore, and to the extent they mention him there's usually a little 'Well thank god we don't let equipment like that into the series anymore.'

Fun fact: I know someone whose son races midgets at Hickory against KFB, Harvick, Logano, etc.'s sons. Despite the fact that the father makes seven figures and lives in rural NC, his son is by far the kid with the lowest budget at the track. The dad is both the crew chief and one of only two guys who work on the car (the other is his buddy who does it for free + a six pack), their trailer is attached to the dad's truck, and if there's a recession or the dad loses his job, his son's racing dreams are instantly over.

Within my own lifetime, these sorts of guys would have been the only ones showing up to a track like Hickory. Now it's rich kids all the way down. Nascar promoting the local tracks and its feeder series as "grassroots" is a pretty big joke if you ask me. ARCA is made up of about 5 development drivers (who all got their start in racing because of daddy's money but actually have talent), a few more daddy's money no-hope kids, and then the rest is rich old men who are doing it for fun and finish 35 laps down.

 

[Medic]

JR Motorsports showed off 3 paint schemes for the 8's return to the Xfinity series.
View attachment 6744529View attachment 6744530View attachment 6744531
They all kinda suck ass in my opinion. the Pilot car is easily my least favorite, the Allstate is probably the best? I feel like paint schemes shat the bed in the last few years, and none of these really stick out. The 8 deserved a better scheme for its return.

I'm not a fan of this new modern paint scheme shit where it just looks blocky in a design prospective. Its fine when its a secondary option, but when its on every car its just gay in my opinion.

 

[Green Man]

A few friends and I used to buy total shitboxes to run in the local dirt track or at the fairgrounds when the County Fair was on for a few years and I knew a lot of the guys who were perennials at both events. You could get 3-4 guys together who know something about cars, go buy a shitbox and provided someone had a little space in their garage [or a good shade tree and and an engine stand], basically pool money together and treat it as a sort of timeshare where everyone turns up and does a little work here and there and you'd get a few good weeks of racing out of it before the shitbox throws a rod or loses its head. I'd say I knew at least fifteen guys [wasn't good friends with all of them obviously, but acquaintances] plus myself who would participate and were recognizable names at the local dirt track, only a single guy I know from back then [maybe a mere eight to ten years ago] is still in it and he's scaled it back to the County Fair, and at that he's more focused on working on dirt bike/four-runner stuff with his son because it's undoubtedly more affordable. It's just out of reach for most people anymore with all of the safety requirements and dirt tracks are getting fucking insane with red tape and demands for what you're allowed to run. Not to mention inflation.

It's really no wonder why a bunch of teenagers every year end up in some horrific fucking accident because they were doing 100 on a county road at midnight in their riced-out Civic, there's just no real outlet for that kind of energy anymore with even the shittiest dirt tracks being out of reach due to costs and requirements. I did my fair share of stupid shit on public roads when I was in my twenties but racing was a good outlet for that and I quit driving like a retarded asshole on the road after that, the first time you put that pedal on the floor it's in your blood permanently but it's far safer to do it on a track. Bonus that you don't end up plowing into a minivan and taking out an entire family in a wall of flames.

Seems like iRacing is where it's at for now but even then you're competing with dudes with full fucking sim rigs while you've got a hundred dollar wheel and pedal set from Newegg. It's a shame a lot of young people aren't going to get that experience anymore of buying some shitbox Beretta parked in an old man's front yard and spending about a month sweating your ass off in your buddy's garage talking shit, arguing over the paint scheme and chewing Redman trying to get it ready to run by August. Hell at this point racing is more of a "rich man's sport" than golf, golf is more fucking accessible to the general public since there are some pretty cheap courses. You also don't need to drop a mortgage payment on clubs and paraphernalia, go find some decent clubs at a garage sale or an estate sale and there you go.

 

[Kino Fan 93]

I didn't enjoy this season much, Daytona 500 was awful with the fuel saving bullshit, get rid of stages and drivers would've been racing at full pace the whole time, I didn't mind single file so much because that was driver's trying to tick off laps and get to the end so they could race, and they couldn't pass, Martinsville in April made me decide not to watch full-time anymore, the cars suck on anything that's not a 1.5 cookie cutter and I've never liked the majority of those tracks, I prefer short tracks, road courses, actual permanent circuits NOT "rovals" or street courses, I don't like them in IndyCar, F1 at least try to make them half decent racing courses, and the superspeedways and the Gen 7 car ruined all of them, I've been to Bristol 3 times and watched 20 years since I was a kid and I can't stand what NASCAR turned into! I know this forum don't like Denny Hamlin and I used to not either but he's at least got the balls to stand up to NASCAR, speak his mind on his podcast, every other car owner wanted nothing to do with the new charter deal but cucked, at least Richard Childress had an honorable reason why he did it, and I've heard rumblings Bubba Wallace is on thin ice with Michael Jordan and Denny Hamlin for underperforming, I can imagine if he wins the lawsuit he can fire Wubba and put a real driver in the 23, maybe John Hunter Nemecheck or Todd Gilliland, or maybe even KFB in the 23!

 

[Mikoyan]

Bubba stays in the 23 for the same reason every trash woman driver they've tried to get over stays around way too long: He pulls huge sponsorship. You'd be dumb to give that up, even if it's not fair.

The charter slapfight should get interesting soon. The idea they want to get it done before Daytona is nuuuuts.

 

[Kino Fan 93]

Bubba stays in the 23 for the same reason every trash woman driver they've tried to get over stays around way too long: He pulls huge sponsorship. You'd be dumb to give that up, even if it's not fair.

The charter slapfight should get interesting soon. The idea they want to get it done before Daytona is nuuuuts.

Yeah Bubba probably keeps that ride until sponsors get sick of their logos crumpled up, just like Danica before him, Natalie Wrecker ended up on Only Fans, at least Toni Breidinger is hot.

 

[A.P. Hill]

Katherine Legge flipped at the Chili Bowl. I don't think anyone expected anything different.

Guess who ran defense for her and not for Santino Ferrucci or Ricky Stenhouse, who also both flipped? Rhymes with Leddit...

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

Katherine Legge flipped at the Chili Bowl. I don't think anyone expected anything different.

Guess who ran defense for her and not for Santino Ferrucci or Ricky Stenhouse, who also both flipped? Rhymes with Leddit...

While I don't think flipping is a sign someone is a total failure of a driver, shit happens, people will have to learn eventually that hyping up a driver purely because its a she is setting her up for failure.
Basically I expect her to have a Xfinity ride by 2027.

 

[Mikoyan]

Katherine Legge flipped at the Chili Bowl. I don't think anyone expected anything different.

Guess who ran defense for her and not for Santino Ferrucci or Ricky Stenhouse, who also both flipped? Rhymes with Leddit...

It's that Legge never really shows any improvement or glimpses of brilliance. And of course she gurl so eeeeendlesssssssss chances with sponsors.

Say what you will about Santino's run being error prone, dude fucking dug deep every time he was out there. And Reddit just be mad that Hey Nigger won again and made it look like even physics couldn't stop him while doing it.