Neo-Luddism & Anarcho-Primitivism. Thoughts?

[Makhnovshchina]

Technology, specifically computers and automobiles have made life unfulfilling, making society sedentary, cities compact and polluted. Computers and mobile technology have made life easier, but have cascaded the world into countless injustices and logical issues that have been seen, but the average man is far too docile, or afraid to expose it. Modern Technology has become vastly more complex than it was when first invented, and though we've been told this is progress, I don't think it is. It is merely an extension of the scientific method to create something that was previously impossible, and rather than being beneficial to mankind, it seems to be making us less human after all. Transhumanism is a dangerous belief system that has been used as an excuse for creating more powerful weapons of destruction and further dividing us into factions. While I am not anti-science per se, I cannot support transhumanism because it is really just a continuation of the same old way of thinking about technology, which is to use it for personal gain above all else. The goal of transhumanists is to move beyond humanity itself and create superhumans who are better, smarter, stronger and faster than those around them – and yet they claim this is good when in reality they want to use it to create a collectivist system without a true revolution in values. This is not only a violation of the individual's right to self-determination, but it also makes me extremely uncomfortable to think that someone could have access to such incredible amounts of power simply by hacking their brain. I.E Roko’s Basilisk

 

[byuu]

Yeah, things were much better when you had to work all day as a penniless serf and not worry about all these things.

 

[TEA 3HF]

Yeah, things were much better when you had to work all day as a penniless serf and not worry about all these things.

My favorite was getting chucked into pointless wars as an expendable soldier to be traumatized and killed for the political agenda of some asshole that couldn't care less about other people.

Oh, wait...

 

[Invincible Wheel]

Why are you here then nigga

 

[WTBOnlineFather]

Everything was perfectly fine until 9/11 followed by putting the internet in every retard's pocket in 2007 and the subsequent great pozzening.

 

[Strix454]

I dont know that it made life any more "unfulfilling" than it was previously. The people who used to zombie out to television broadcasts now zombie out to internet nonsense on their phone. Its not really much of a change. The parents who used television as a babysitter now use tablets & youtube for the same purpose.

The "countless injustices and logical issues" sounds like the same old marxist babble that promises the proletarian a magic utopia if their standard of living is reduced, they are forced into small apartments and they are returned to old school factory work while they study Marx's works by candle-light. I personally never found much good or noble in those old-school factory worker people. Their unhappiness in life didn't stem from technology or capitalism.

Solving the "countless injustices and logical issues" always seems in practice to amount to changing out one set of bosses living up on the hill and looking down at everyone for a different set of bosses doing the same thing. The "injustices" are just a cynical political grift. Most people figure that out eventually and retreat into the politics of self-interest.

The Transhumanists are inevitably morons who are driven by science fiction rather than science. Rather than being superior people, they are inevitably inferior people on a downward trajectory. People like Sam Bankman-Fried and Caroline Ellison. They have big dreams about what science can accomplish, but the reality never lives up to their delusions. Our problem isn't a superior human appearing, but rather the degeneration of a large portion of the human population into various sorts of sub-human.

There are things to be said for pulling back from technology. That you don't need a phone on 24-7, that you don't need constant connection to the internet and maybe there are other things to do with life than consoom content and become a "fan". But the Neo-Luddism & Anarcho-Primitivist approaches tend to go to far. The question is how to integrate technology into life, not to retreat into a total rejection of it. Because what you are retreating into had the same problems as what we have today. The problem isn't the technology. Its us.

 

[Onni Kalsarikännit]

Here is a list of technic stuff we should keep:
- e-guitars
- e-bass-guitars
- recording equipment
- tapes and vinyls
- audio systems to play tapes and vinyls
- machines we need to produce the things mentioned above

Everything else makes us lazy and retarded and fat, disconnects us from nature und thus from god and paves the way for the machines turning against us - which they will one day. Skynet is not sci-fiction.

 

[SpergioLeonne]

Someone read Ted Kaczynski’s manifesto.

Anyways, the problem I had with his manifesto is the same problem I have with this.

There’s a massive assumption that technology is altering morality and culture in specifically pessimistic ways that you can’t really weigh against the past. But dude, the Byzantines ran around blinding people and cutting their dicks and balls off for minor offenses. We could make a list, but it’s really just obvious enough that it should be stipulated, we’re no worse off than historical averages, even if we’re not as well off as the boomers were.

As far as connecting to your roots, nobody is stopping you from moving somewhere rural. You can hunt, you can fish, you can homestead your heart out. You just have to decide to do it.

All of the humans on earth would fit in the land area of NYC standing shoulder to shoulder. The Chinese would take up about Manhattan. There’s room.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Then go live in a commune with like minded individuals, just don't start making and selling guns, or start to sexually abuse the members like most of those enlightened communes end up. Most people will rather keep the conveniences afforded to them by modern day and will not change.

 

[byuu]

just don't start making and selling guns,

That's an evil of the industrial revolution.

Embrace 17th century air guns.

 

[Wesley Willis]

Ideology is almost entirely useless at this point. Teddy's Manifesto was just a fire-and-brimstone version of the The End of History and the Last Man by Francis Fukuyama, which was published three years prior.

 

[LeroyJenkem]

The main reason that anti-tech ideologies are largely thought experiments rather than a feasible ideology is the fact you can't make people forget previously experienced convenience. If the grid collapses, someone will rebuild it, because the knowledge never goes away. Burn every book and manual, and you're still gonna have someone jury rig comparable setups because they miss hot showers and indoor plumbing. Short of complete human extinction, tech is here to stay and will be expounded upon accordingly. Sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[BirdUp]

The main reason that anti-tech ideologies are largely thought experiments rather than a feasible ideology is the fact you can't make people forget previously experienced convenience. If the grid collapses, someone will rebuild it, because the knowledge never goes away. Burn every book and manual, and you're still gonna have someone jury rig comparable setups because they miss hot showers and indoor plumbing. Short of complete human extinction, tech is here to stay and will be expounded upon accordingly. Sucks, but it is what it is.

ted had a chapter about this
most modern tech is irreproducible in small communities
its like how roman smithery was passed on because anyone clever enough could learn it but their complex infrastructure was lost because it depended on a bunch of other parts

 

[DJ Grelle]

For what the individual is and for direct individual power, scientific technology says nothing, or rather: in the midst of his knowledge of phenomena and of his innumerable diabolical machines, the individual today is extremely wretched and powerless, more and more conditioned rather than conditioning, moving more and more on a path on which the necessity of will is reduced to a minimum, the sense of oneself, the indomitable fire of the individual entity is gradually dying in weariness, in desolation, in degeneration.

With the ‘laws’ discovered by his science, which for us are mere statistical-mathematical abstractions, he will also be able to succeed in destroying or in creating a world - but that does not mean that his real relation with the various events would be changed in any way: fire will continue to burn him; organic change to trouble his conscience; time, passion, and death to dominate him with their law. In general: he will be absolutely the same being as before, in the same situation as before relative to that level in the hierarchy of beings, which man with all that is human represents.

Technology brings us comfort but it does not bring us certainty. It brings pleasure but not power. It gives knowledge but not wisdom. It is an opiate millstone, for which humanity is the grist. Its unstoppable rolling will crush everything beautiful into a fine powder. Technology is alive in a sense, and it will bend humanity to serve it, it's tentacles reaching further and further through its tools: data-ists and transhumanists, the rationalists and the nerds who slavishly follow the promise of paradise that technology offers. The moviebobs and the yudkowskis, the bill gates's and the harari's of the world want to compensate all of their weaknesses with more and more technological tools.

Some see this and see no way of humanity regaining control of its destiny, and would rather destroy it all in the hope that humanity may live again (Linkola, Kaczynski, neo-luddites,...)

Personally I think that this is just a great filter. Yes, the vast majority of humanity will be ground to meaningless nothingness. But the pressure will harden some into the purest of diamonds. The internet is a memetic hazard, a crucible of mind-viruses. But the hotter it burns, the purer the gold in the oven. So I do not fear. Let us rise above.

 

[BirdUp]

Technology, specifically computers and automobiles have made life unfulfilling, making society sedentary, cities compact and polluted. Computers and mobile technology have made life easier, but have cascaded the world into countless injustices and logical issues that have been seen, but the average man is far too docile, or afraid to expose it.

close but no cigar

sedentarism made life unfulfilling because it freed up too much time, which cultivated scientific pursuits (an instance of "surrogate activities" as ted called them) that led to industrialization

industralization just amplified sedentarism's issues

read "the human zoo" as well as studying kaczynskis better work "anti-tech revolution" to get a better picture

 

[Nuclear Poisoning]

What I really want to know is why John Zerzan is so staunchly pro-Trans and anti-TERF.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I disagree with primitivism because it means bringing back the primitive ways we suffered and died. But technology is not stopped easily because every nation--and corporation--has an incentive to cheat. Thus, the only way is establishing a global deep state dedicated to stopping technology by force. I believe it would function pretty much like society does today except the people running the show would actually want to improve our lives and not spread transhumanist degeneracy. We'd probably abolish the internet too, or keep it highly restricted like North Korea does to the average citizen. We'd all live like it was the late 20th century, except technology would never advance and things would remain the same year after year. Our rulers would be hyper-intelligent AI gods who evolved from the initial AI we set up to govern ourselves, and they would maintain power over each nation through control over energy resources.

The problem with going back further than the late 20th century is it inevitably involves a mass cull of the population. Now yes, a LOT of land globally was never developed to its "maximal" (pre-industrial standards i.e. 18th century Europe) limits, but there's no way there could be more than 3 billion people or so even it were, and living as an agrarian peasant fucking sucks, that's why so many of them left to go to polluted cities to work in the dark satanic mills. A hunter-gatherer world would mean killing all but a few million people. Although AI could save us from that fate by reverting our society and giving us "magic" (technology) which we'd use to cultivate fields and live an easy, peaceful agrarian life.

If this society sounds like shit, then realize there's no other option to deal with technology, because technology is so incredibly destructive to humanity. The global elite of the WEF know it, that's why they've gone with the "bugs and pods for thee, private planes for me" model. The only other option is extinction or this sort of privacy-less society where we are permanently enslaved to benevolent AI for all eternity.

I like the latter. Star Trek did this setup a bunch of times with powerful AI protecting a planet of peaceful primitives.

There’s a massive assumption that technology is altering morality and culture in specifically pessimistic ways that you can’t really weigh against the past. But dude, the Byzantines ran around blinding people and cutting their dicks and balls off for minor offenses. We could make a list, but it’s really just obvious enough that it should be stipulated, we’re no worse off than historical averages, even if we’re not as well off as the boomers were.

It's not an assumption. Research Edward Bernays, father of modern PR. His propaganda techniques would not have been possible without modern mass media which emerged in the late 19th century because it relied on mass literacy and information being able to travel anywhere in seconds (which was impossible before the telegraph). PR firms, ad agencies, and the elite behind them have literally been manipulating our culture and with it our morality for over a century.

 

[shameful existence]

No worries, we still have a good chance to be randomly wiped out or thrown significantly back in time by anything from geomagnetic storms to asteroids. We're getting just about cocky enough.

 

[rel=alternate]

My favorite was getting chucked into pointless wars as an expendable soldier to be traumatized and killed for the political agenda of some asshole that couldn't care less about other people.

Oh, wait...

You're forgetting about the king having the right to decide to fuck any of your daughters before the husband.

Truly, it was better before.

 

[tygressofaera]

Anprims are all trannies.

All the neo-luddites I've met are addicted to the internet.

It's over.