Nerd/geek culture, self-identification, and the Nerd Police

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hellbound

kiwifarms.net
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Spun off the Stupid Video Games Accessories thread

Why does it matter if what use to be nerdy interests become mainstream? most people are glad their girlfriends are now into games.

I think video will do the explaining to you: [youtube]H7A5OgfP4NA[/youtube]

I couldn't make it through much of the video but the main points appear to be:
-people who call themselves nerds seldom are
-"real nerds" have "earned their title" through alienation
-"geek chic" is cultural commodification/appropriation and harmful

By almost any reasonable definition I could be called a nerd. I am currently a scientist and I'm also studying engineering. I grew up playing tabletop RPGs and board games (like Puerto Rico, Settlers, Civilization, Carcassone, and Power Grid, not Monopoly and Risk) on a weekly basis, and Magic, Illuminati, and the Pokemon card game less frequently but still often enough. Though I'm not into it anymore, I used to be in my high school's anime club. As a project I intend to work out how having an 8-suite deck of cards changes the statistics of poker hands.

But I've never really taken the label on myself. I don't go around calling myself a nerd or a geek. I have a couple "nerdy" shirts - Thor, Keyboard Cat, and Colonel Meow, but that's about it. I got eye surgery so I wouldn't need to wear glasses anymore. I have a decent amount of tattoos but none of them are about video games. The whole concept of geek chic is a little bit baffling to me. People who take pride in calling themselves nerds seem like black people who go around calling themselves nigg(er/a)s, or homosexuals who call themselves fags. You can talk about word privileges and taking it back all you want, but it's always seemed foolish to self-apply an insult.

But even stranger than that to me is people who say they earned it and get angry about people whose interest in "nerdy" shit only goes as far as playing COD or Angry Birds and seeing the latest Avengers movie wearing chunky glasses, or who compare Big Bang Theory to blackface. It's just fashion. I suppose you get similar bitching when a white person wears a bindi or listens to blues, but it seems that many of the same people who scoff at the notion of cultural appropriation get upset at "fake nerds."

I may think it's stupid to use terms like nerd or geek when talking about yourself, but what harm does it do when somebody does it? Who has the authority to be arbiter of who may or may not call themselves a nerd? Why, in short, does it matter that things like comic books and video games are becoming mainstream? Everything that can make money gets sold.

At its core, the backlash against "fake geeks" just seems like being upset that when what you identify as becomes mainstream, for one brief moment you're at the forefront but then those susceptible to fads move to catch up and you're no longer that special snowflake.
 
I don't know if this post of mine could get what you are saying but I may as well take a stab at it. As much as I love going on the internet, being a part of a fandom (brony and From Software fan) owning a few shirts that reference pop culture, tv shows, and movies (Hobbit shirt, Domo shirt, and Regular Show shirt), and owning a lot of video games (and identifying myself as a gamer), I don't really see myself as a nerd or geek not because of whatever stigma there is attached to it but because I'm indifferent to the two labels.

I don't really care if someone really does see themselves as nerds or geeks mainly because 1) I don't really care and 2) it's their life, they can call themselves a furry geek who is a hardcore tabletop gamer for all I care, it's none of my business. As for "fake geeks", I do feel they exist, thinking that just because they watch "The Avengers" and being fans of The Big Bang Theory makes them nerds. To me it doesn't make them nerds but I don't care as long as they don't flaunt their "nerdiness". If they were to do such a thing, I'd feel they be doing it for attention.

I can see how something becoming mainstream can be a problem (lower quality for one) but on that same note, I myself do not care if the next Dark Souls became more mainstream.

As for earning the title of nerd, I honestly have to ask: what do you have to like in order to have the title? Being a huge fan of tabletop games? Knowing all the Star Trek episodes without having to look up Wikipedia? I would like to know, what makes a guy a nerd? What makes a woman a geek?

As I said, if this post doesn't get what hellbound is saying, then I can accept that I am wrong.
 
At its core, the backlash against "fake geeks" just seems like being upset that when what you identify as becomes mainstream, for one brief moment you're at the forefront but then those susceptible to fads move to catch up and you're no longer that special snowflake.
It does seem like it's the same idea as tumblr "otherkin oppression" and all that stuff. People want to be special, and want something to be self-righteous about, so they find something stupid to latch on to and build their personality around it.
 
As for earning the title of nerd, I honestly have to ask: what do you have to like in order to have the title? Being a huge fan of tabletop games? Knowing all the Star Trek episodes without having to look up Wikipedia? I would like to know, what makes a guy a nerd? What makes a woman a geek?

One of my points. Who has the authority to tell somebody that they are or are not a nerd or a geek or whatever? But you have self-appointed Nerd Police telling people they couldn't possibly be one.
 
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One of my points. Who has the authority to tell somebody that they are or are not a nerd or a geek or whatever? But you have self-appointed Nerd Police telling people they couldn't possibly be one.
As far as labeling yourself as something, I feel that if one only deserves it if they really do identify as that. If you really do see yourself as a nerd for whatever reasons such as being a fan of Star Trek while also being a fan of TBBT, playing 50 hours of both DnD and COD, then by all means call yourself a nerd. If you do see yourself as that, then you may as well be that. I could be wrong though. As for self-appointed Nerd Police, those guys may as well be those who use the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
 
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Heh, my wireless headset's charging, so I can't watch the video. Maybe in a bit.

But the subject is something people whine about a lot, so just from the title, I can guess what's going on. "You're not such a nerd: commodification of nerd and gamer subculture" Haha, see, just from this line, I'm thinking, yes, this guy hit the nail on the head: commodification, that's exactly what's happening. And really, I'm really sad for all the nerds out there, who are losing their precious titles to the hipsters. I'm crying tears of blood for all you nerds. :cryblood:

The whole concept of geek chic is a little bit baffling to me. People who take pride in calling themselves nerds seem like black people who go around calling themselves nigg(er/a)s, or homosexuals who call themselves fags. You can talk about word privileges and taking it back all you want, but it's always seemed foolish to self-apply an insult.
Eh, but it's not an insult at this point. Language evolves. People are taking nerds seriously, instead of them just being punchlines on a sitcom.
 
I posted this a while ago on the CWCki forums but I find it relevant here. Nerd, Geek, or Dork? Test

A Nerd is someone who is passionate about learning/being smart/academia.
A Geek is someone who is passionate about some particular area or subject, often an obscure or difficult one.
A Dork is someone who has difficulty with common social expectations/interactions.

The test has been deeming me as a "Pure Nerd" for a while now. I'm also on the dorky side too, probably because of the Asperger's.
 
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So, I'm actually sitting down and watching this video, and this shit is nuts. In my earlier post, I started to say something like "and shit, it's not even like you're a group that's genuinely oppressed, like American Indians." But I clipped it out of my post, because I figured I'd keep it simple.

But goddamn, I never would've believed that the guy in this video actually would compare losing his nerd title to, y'know, actual oppression of people. That's some crazy shit.
 
I was once picked on as a kid for being socially awkward and "weird." Then I found nerd pride, superiority for liking video games "before they were cool." And now I don't care anymore about nerd labels or lack thereof.
 
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That whole being alienated = nerd/geek/dork/gamer/whatever is bullshit. What clique you fit into is defined primarily by your interests and tastes in fashion, music, etc. Saying being alienated makes you a nerd is like saying fighting with mods makes you a rocker.
 
I for one just have a lot of questions about this subject. First of all, I find the idea of a 'real nerd/gamer' a bit weird. Like what differentiates a 'real nerd' from a 'fake nerd.' Is a hipster who's never been bullied but loves dungeons and dragons still a fake nerd? Who chooses who gets to carry the label of 'real nerd?' Why is it important? And what has the guy in that video been smoking to compare the stigmatization of 'nerdiness' to the type of institutional racism/oppression actual minorities have had to face?
 
I for one just have a lot of questions about this subject. First of all, I find the idea of a 'real nerd/gamer' a bit weird. Like what differentiates a 'real nerd' from a 'fake nerd.' Is a hipster who's never been bullied but loves dungeons and dragons still a fake nerd? Who chooses who gets to carry the label of 'real nerd?' And what has the guy in that video been smoking to compare the stigmatization of 'nerdiness' to the type of institutional racism/oppression actual minorities have had to face?
Yeah. Actually, trying to really get deep in fighting all the fake nerds is funny to me. Well, hell, we've all experienced some amount of bullying at some point. How much bully stamps do you have to have on your nerd card to be a real nerd?

In high school, me and my friends were all huge nerds, but we managed to evade bullying. Maybe we stuck together better or were more mature than typical nerds, so we handled people trying to fuck with us better (unlikely, but possible)? We were nerds who were just more effective at dodging bullies. Does that invalidate our precious, nerd culture? :tomgirl:

This is all very amusing to me.
 
Hmm... this looks like a job for the Gatekeeper! :D


Seriously, though, I think I get the whole torment for looking or behaving in a way that is socially unacceptable, I had a bad way of it when I was growing up (not always for being a "nerd", but for other things as well), but it's definitely not exclusive to nerds.

Personally, I'm just glad that being a nerd doesn't have a stigma anymore. Fewer kids getting picked on for knowing a lot about computers? Awesome! The only downside is that I'm pretty sure it'll just move on to some other group, like hipsters or something.
 
I've never known what to identify myself as, I've always just felt like the weird, strange, creepy, thick, awkward person who doesn't know where to fit herself in.

You fit in here, where you give all of the likes and pets.

Also, as someone who is a nerd and a geek, I could give fuck all about hipsters calling themselves that. Also, comparing yourself to groups who have actually suffered genocide and slavery is some serious bull shit.
 
You have to look at Western culture to understand Nerd culture as it was once a sub culture of western culture.

Individualism which grew out of the fires of the french revolution focused heavily on "the person" not the group.

As secularization began to emerge people started to look and judge themselves at this life and there accomplishments not the afterlife.

Somehow this idea of the person was later perverted by the babyboomers and passed on to there children to what i like to call "Mah special snowflake" mentality.

In our society it is somehow wrong not to be a perfect individual. I have to give myself as many labels as possible to make myself not just unique but more unique then you. You are just a gamer on a Nintendo, im a table top star trek anti star wars pro geneticist tri sexual elephant trapped in a mongooses body with severe disability in quantum science! That makes me Uber unique therefor super special!

Now whats this have to do with nerd culture, part of its old identification was that it was a sub culture used to being mocked at. Now its becoming a kinda cool thing to be part of. Power is going to these peoples heads who were once mocked and made fun of. So now they are starting to become the bullies they once hated.

Humanity in general does not learn form its mistakes. Look at the French Revolution/Communist Revolutions People who once had no power and were pawns of the Monarchies revolted and took power. The second they take power the trials start the executions follow and the reign of terror becomes the norm. Those who have no power once they gain it tend to be as bad if not worse then the person they took power from.

Nerd culture is no different (granted we are not talking about something as important as a governmental collapse but the theory is kinda the same) They get power from taking it from others. If you do not fit there perfect little mold you are cast out. Just like they were once cast out. They have not learned one single lesson from being a victim of a stronger culture. Opressors become the oppressed and the oppressed become the oppressor.

I refuse to label myself as i am not a special snowflake I am just an observer :)

One day the table will turn and history will repeat.

Just my 2 cents

TLDR: Same ol shit different day.
 
You fit in here, where you give all of the likes and pets.

Also, as someone who is a nerd and a geek, I could give fuck all about hipsters calling themselves that. Also, comparing yourself to groups who have actually suffered genocide and slavery is some serious bull shit.

But I still feel like I have no idea who I am, what makes me, me. I know I fit in here, which is nice, but I wish I knew what kind of person I am, because all my life I've been one of those people who does things to please others to fit in.
 
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