Nintendo Switch 2 - For the Soytendo consoomers to speculate about the successor to the Switch, recently announced for 2025.

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Amaranthy said:
Its just a physical version of a download code, so stores can have shit on their shelf, if there was more backlash on download codes in the first place maybe we wouldn't have reached this point
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If anything the backlash got us here. GKC are better than just codes.

If the entire industry is going digital. A cheap cart that can get you access to the game forever because Nintendo’s servers don’t go down honestly seems like Nintendo compromising and holding the industry back for another decade.

But consumers are dumb and Nintendo is never one to explain directly what they are doing.
 
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6MillionCoofs said:
I want to ball park and say 10-20%. Some of the third parties have been real scum fucks.
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I'm not sure if i'd call that "a great deal", but then it's not an insignificant amount, IF it is 20%, which I kinda doubt.

6MillionCoofs said:
Yeah. Forcing the companies to be upfront about shit stuff and making it more than 1 time use or a game linked to the eshop is actually a good thing.
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Y'know what, I might agree on this part..

6MillionCoofs said:
But I’m convinced the main purpose is to force the devs to show how shit they are being after almost a decade of people complaining about codes in boxes or not all being on cart
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But I disagree on this part. Especially since Nintendo *themselves* are using it (in Japan for now). See, if your theory would be correct we'd see around the same % of GKC on launch as on the switch 1, but that's not what's happening is it? What really happened is that MOST - that's over 50% by my definition - games released are GKC if on a physical medium. And you can point to the reason that wasting 64GB NAND with a pcie interface on a 5GB game is too expensive and wastefull, okay. But how long has Ninty been working on this shit? They had factories pumping out the Switcharoo 2 for months but couldn't talk to Micron about smaller chip sizes? Or figure out how to make smaller games work on non sd-express like chips? Anything?

No, it's the complete opposite, they wanted their cake and wanted to eat it too. "Sure, release your games digital-only, you have our blessing, we want to phase it out too". In 6-7 years where *MOST* of releases will be digital only or GKC, they'll just not include a slot on a new generation (if they make it this far) because "most games were GKC anyway, what are you complaining about chud?"

Soystation at least had the decency of signaling this shift by not including a disc drive. But this concept? It pleases no one except Nintendo themselves. Physical diehards like me will never touch the stuff, people who like digital will buy straight from the eshop anyway. But Nintendo gets to have $10 more for a useless piece of plastic.

"I can now know which devs are shit". Cool, I guess that's all of them then
 
Atlas Sneezed said:
They had factories pumping out the Switcharoo 2 for months but couldn't talk to Micron about smaller chip sizes? Or figure out how to make smaller games work on non sd-express like chips? Anything?
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For all we know they did but it will take time. And it’s ‘oh, it will take a bit for us to make those’.
 
Atlas Sneezed said:
What really happened is that MOST - that's over 50% by my definition - games released are GKC if on a physical medium. And you can point to the reason that wasting 64GB NAND with a pcie interface on a 5GB game is too expensive and wastefull, okay. But how long has Ninty been working on this shit? They had factories pumping out the Switcharoo 2 for months but couldn't talk to Micron about smaller chip sizes? Or figure out how to make smaller games work on non sd-express like chips? Anything?
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This entire ordeal’s happening because SD Express was made expecting it to be pushed into mass adoption through a phone market that still has micro SD slots and now that everyone is mindlessly copying iPhone a majority of the work’s been thrown on a single video game company because everyone else with SD slots on their devices is complacent sticking with SDXC’s nowadays horrendous read/write bus clogging. I can 100% see Micron not having smaller sizes ready because they expected 64GB as the absolute minimum for phone storage.
 
6MillionCoofs said:
But consumers are dumb and Nintendo is never one to explain directly what they are doing.
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I don't know how the fuck Nintendo is supposed to 'explain' clearly in a way that doesn't get people's dander up.
People are heated because Nintendo doesn't give them free shit. That's all I ever fucking see when people bitch about this shit. Everyone bitching has a steam account and does not ACTUALLY care or make purchasing decisions based on whether or not they can buy the game on a dedicated piece of flash storage. People argue after seeing backwards compatibility or knowledge that a game started as a last gen game in preproduction/early production before it was decided to target a new platform as a reason to not buy a new platform. 'I don't see anything that couldn't be done on the Switch" they say about a game in 4k using DLSS with entirely voxel based levels because it looks like next gen Mario Odyssey.

Physical media is generally retarded in the first place. The tablet won't make it meaningfully past a 10 to 15 years before serious failures are super probable. The card is likely to get fucked up or lost before Nintendo shuts down the damn servers, and 'game preservationists' rip the game from the card and put the card in a box the first chance they get. They're de facto digital-only users upset at paying the costs of physical media.

How do they communicate in a way that people 'get' why there are key cards and game cards besides what they've done so far?

First, they'd need to explain that the game cards are literally just a microSD express card in a plastic shell with some custom pinout interface for the Switch, but it's a tiny card in a bigger custom plastic shell. And any messaging is just going to be turned into a 'controversy' of its own, since the enthusiast media system is reliant on retarded, effusive praise, or indignant controversy and clickbait. People get pissed any time custom hardware is revealed to be semicustom, they think "why am I buying this instead of an android phone or a laptop" since the economics of an entertainment business are impossible for almost all consumers to digest.

Then they'd need to explain how the bulk purchasing works, and that publishers make the call on what cards to use, and that Nintendo cannot mandate they eat shit on physical copies, nor can Nintendo really afford to eat shit for publishers. And what publisher is excited to publish on a platform that will call them cheapskates publicly for not being willing to eat the cost?

Then they'd need to explain how market conditions have reduced demand for removable flash storage and that their paltry 10-20 million a year install base for micro sd express + rapidly shrinking demand for the physical games isn't enough to drive down costs meaningfully. Since in reality it's forum users and /v/ spammers who actually give a shit and don't shrug and go well the price is the price when they buy electronics. People argued SSDs are a fucking meme over the absolute bullshit 5400RPM SATA drives they were shipping in the PS4 and xbone. microSD express cards are relatively expensive and the minimum size I've seen at retail is 64GB, and everyone can see what those go for at retail, but the connection between the reality of the game cards having a cost greater than a piece of laser etched plastic is impossible to fathom.

I don't see how there's much to do besides wait for prices to go down from process improvements and market saturation. My real concern is that there's apparently a devkit shortage and they don't seem to have some simple software converter for Switch - Switch 2 for indies where they push a button and a new version that can actually use the Switch 2 performance headroom. It's not like there's a software drought, but the floodgates sure as shit aren't open the way I'd hope, it feels like there's somehow skepticism and a weirdly slow reaction time amongst devs for the most anticipated and well-marketed generational transition for Nintendo since the goddamned Super Nintendo.

Anyway it's not like there's some race against the clock, I just want to play mostly on the Switch 2 these days and want games that actually leverage the hardware meaningfully. I want my mouse controls and tolerable framerates and resolutions for games with aiming.
 
Soggy Floppa said:
its 1200p - 1440p with SMAA + FSR1 spatially upscaling to 4k output. Their DLSS in name only would look a lot worse
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Notwithstanding, the switch 1 could barely push 900p on demanding games in docked.
 
6MillionCoofs said:
They aren’t. Nintendo is smart to say nothing.
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That was more or less my point, it's an impossible communications task, it's stupid to try and quell nerd arguments when nerds are fundamentally a captive market and will eventually buy it when even one compelling game hits for them. Specs, resolution, anti-aliasing, fuck even image quality is basically nonsense to fuel the media system. People show up for fun games if they get presented well by marketing and the type of game is fashionable.
 
Harambe said:
People are heated because Nintendo doesn't give them free shit.
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What the fuck is this level of cuckholdery? People are heated because Nintendo treats them like shit, increasing prices while lowering quality. Trying to compare with Steam is just retarded, Steam is a digital platform so no shit it sells digital games, Nintendo sells digital games in physical boxes because it lowers costs while still attracting children and families to buy their shit when they see those in stores, despite the cartridge containing essentially nothing. It's just scummy, and trying to argue that it costs the multi billion dollar corporation too much, or that it can't enforce it on the developers when its console is a closed environment is crossing the line into dishonesty.

Ditto people say the games could have been released on Switch because yes they could have been, they still look like PS3 shovelware and it's ridiculous that people talk on having Cyberpunk on the Switch 2 but none of the 2 games being playable on 1.

I have no idea why Nintendo fans are so zealous in protecting their corpo, the only similar company I can compare it to is Apple, but Apple doesn't brand itself as a family oriented company, which objectively makes Nintendo the worst company in gaming. Worse than EA, Activision and Bethesda ever been.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
What the fuck is this level of cuckholdery? People are heated because Nintendo treats them like shit, increasing prices while lowering quality. Trying to compare with Steam is just retarded, Steam is a digital platform so no shit it sells digital games, Nintendo sells digital games in physical boxes because it lowers costs while still attracting children and families to buy their shit when they see those in stores, despite the cartridge containing essentially nothing. It's just scummy, and trying to argue that it costs the multi billion dollar corporation too much, or that it can't enforce it on the developers when its console is a closed environment is crossing the line into dishonesty.

Ditto people say the games could have been released on Switch because yes they could have been, they still look like PS3 shovelware and it's ridiculous that people talk on having Cyberpunk on the Switch 2 but none of the 2 games being playable on 1.

I have no idea why Nintendo fans are so zealous in protecting their corpo, the only similar company I can compare it to is Apple, but Apple doesn't brand itself as a family oriented company, which objectively makes Nintendo the worst company in gaming. Worse than EA, Activision and Bethesda ever been.
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I think you have an odd amount of animus about this and are misinterpreting what I say and substituting what I say for an imaginary person's argument.

The key cards lower costs for publishers not for Nintendo. Nintendo-published games have been on real carts. Nintendo is not selling game key cards for any of their titles. EA is, Capcom is, Bethesda is. They sell blu-rays with keys on them also. Publishers are the ones who make the decision whether to sell a key or the full game on the storage. Publishing arrangements generally handle marketing and retail. It's either that or every fucking physical game is going to be at least 10 bucks higher at retail than digital, or stuff is skipping the platform, or stuff is going to be digital-only.

The Switch 2 exclusives look like PS3 shovelware? You're being disingenuous.

I think you're being somewhat irrational about the market situation and looking for a villain. I'm pointing out that publishers balk at eating costs and keeping publishers and retailers happy is the name of the game when you're a platform holder trying to move shit in Walmart. Nintendo really cannot force publishers to do whatever and pay for expensive shit and keep price parity with digital. It's not the 80s. They cannot force publishers to eat the costs. If they were to try to that's going to mean they either skip the platform or do digital-only releases for major third party sellers, which hurts their retail presence selling tablets. I'm not arguing that "the SD cards cost the publisher too much and thus they deserve our money" I'm saying "the SD cards cost publishers enough where they have to pass on the costs at retail." It's not even an argument--it's an explanation of the situation. I'm not mad at corpos for being out for their money. Goods and services for money at market rates is about the best anyone can hope for. You and I both know budgets are high, distribution costs are high, physical demand is weak, production costs are high, tariffs have happened, and a new inflationary cycle has happened. Publishers will pass the costs on to you. It's a business. SD express cards are way more expensive than blu-rays ever were. It kinda sucks, but shit generally gets nominally more expensive over time.
 
Harambe said:
The key cards lower costs for publishers not for Nintendo. Nintendo-published games have been on real carts. Nintendo is not selling game key cards for any of their titles. EA is, Capcom is, Bethesda is. They sell blu-rays with keys on them also. Publishers are the ones who make the decision whether to sell a key or the full game on the storage. Publishing arrangements generally handle marketing and retail. It's either that or every fucking physical game is going to be at least 10 bucks higher at retail than digital, or stuff is skipping the platform, or stuff is going to be digital-only.
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Allowing a scam does not magically absolve you from responsibility for it. Nintendo is already draconic in usage of its hardware, it could put its foot down and force the publishers to not do it. Not to mention where does this line of thinking end? "Obviously we need to increase the price of online games because hosting and transferring data is costly", if the cost of a keycard rose so much (which I highly doubt) then either the publishers raise the games price to compensate or take the hit, not this half measure that is even worse than regular online.
Harambe said:
I think you're being somewhat irrational about the market situation and looking for a villain. I'm pointing out that publishers balk at eating costs and keeping publishers and retailers happy is the name of the game when you're a platform holder trying to move shit in Walmart. Nintendo really cannot force publishers to do whatever and pay for expensive shit and keep price parity with digital. It's not the 80s. They cannot force publishers to eat the costs. If they were to try to that's going to mean they either skip the platform or do digital-only releases for major third party sellers, which hurts their retail presence selling tablets. I'm not arguing that "the SD cards cost the publisher too much and thus they deserve our money" I'm saying "the SD cards cost publishers enough where they have to pass on the costs at retail." It's not even an argument--it's an explanation of the situation. I'm not mad at corpos for being out for their money. Goods and services for money at market rates is about the best anyone can hope for. You and I both know budgets are high, distribution costs are high, physical demand is weak, production costs are high, tariffs have happened, and a new inflationary cycle has happened. Publishers will pass the costs on to you. It's a business. SD express cards are way more expensive than blu-rays ever were. It kinda sucks, but shit generally gets nominally more expensive over time.
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That's not my fucking problem, if the costs of those cartridges rose so massively then Nintendo should have switched to other type of media storage. If publishers want to lose a massive slice of the market for not selling Nintendo games or raising their prices then they should do it.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
What the fuck is this level of cuckholdery? People are heated because Nintendo treats them like shit, increasing prices while lowering quality. Trying to compare with Steam is just retarded, Steam is a digital platform so no shit it sells digital games, Nintendo sells digital games in physical boxes because it lowers costs while still attracting children and families to buy their shit when they see those in stores, despite the cartridge containing essentially nothing. It's just scummy, and trying to argue that it costs the multi billion dollar corporation too much, or that it can't enforce it on the developers when its console is a closed environment is crossing the line into dishonesty.
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Don't ask questions, just consoom product then get excited for next product.
Harambe said:
The Switch 2 exclusives look like PS3 shovelware? You're being disingenuous.
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I don't know, I saw the welcome tour.
 
Two Dollars said:
And I know it’s a cop-out to say piracy will fix it, but… come on, even if that physical copy did somehow become more limited 20-30 years after the fact and you still want to replay the game at that point, it’ll have already become trivial to just download it and all its updates to a hard drive, or even dump your own copy. Would anyone be devastated about the Wii Shop Channel being shut down at this point when pirating those games has been practically idiot-proof since day 1? I really don’t want to come across like I’m defending servers and purchases getting shut down - because I’m not - just that these problems will be solved long before they actually become problems.
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I sold all my old consoles a while back because of this. I held onto them for decades, but eventually I realized that if I wanted to play a SNES game, I have a thousand options aside from actually playing it on my SNES, and all of them are both easier and a better user experience. I never touched any of them once I unhooked them to make room for the next generation. Not ever.
 
You know, given how Sony and Microsoft are looking more and more into bringing their games to other platforms, I can’t help but feel amused that Nintendo, the one everyone said is going to go third party a decade ago, is ultimately the one who still does console exclusivity.

Don’t get me wrong, I criticize Nintendo for a whole heap of reasons, many of which were brought up. They do have a bad habit of crapping all over the fans and audiences faces when it comes to things like copyright enforcement and online services.

But when it comes to delivering exclusives that can’t be found anywhere else that provide unique experiences, they treat you like a queen. Wish they did that with everything else, but hey, I give praise and criticism where it’s deserved.

Amazing how Nintendo managed to outlast Sony and Microsoft in this department.
 
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