Megathread Non-binary genders / Enbies - When Male and Female Aren't Special Enough

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The more I talk to people who identify as non-binary, the more fake the whole concept seems to be. I used to believe that dysphoria is what makes one transgender and non-binary aren't less trans because of that, because atypical dysphoria is still dysphoria.

However, the deeper I dig in the whole thing, the less any of this makes sense. First I'd like to describe what is "dysphoria". Generally this word is used in both psychiatric and casual language, meaning that one is not satisfied with something. It is one of the most common symptoms of almost any common mental disorder, from depression to schizophrenia, from bipolar to dissociative disorders. Not only that, but people with insomnia, chronic pain, anxiety, sexual dysfunction, PMS, and even stress often do experience dysphoria. Some drugs cause it as well. Also, another super important thing to point at - there is a premenstrual dysphoric disorder, notice how it says that 3%-8% of women are affected. It is a huge number. Think about it.
Now, "gender dysphoria" itself is a blurry, vague term as well. What it means is dysphoria caused specifically by gender/sex related things -which are vague things as well,- it doesn't say what exactly is the cause, it doesn't say anything at all, just a word to describe a symptom that resulted from something else, that has to do with gender/sex, but it doesn't specify anything else at all. Our world is still full of sexism and various prejudices, and is still full of social expectations, including "progressive" societies. Things may affect everyone in a different way. The simplest example of which: a girl was growing up a tomboy, but even if her parents might have been accepting, she still could face prejudice from other children or from random encounters. Some girls grew a spine and defend themselves and prove that they aren't less of a female, some others accepted that "they are not really girls" (=identifying out of their birth sex) subconsciously and grew dissatisfied (=dysphoric) of parts or interests that originally caused them feel this way. Since they are dissatisfied with gender-related things, it makes this fall under gender dysphoria term.

So, my point here is - literally every living person out there is dysphoric to some degree, everyone is unsatisfied with something and almost every mentally ill people has dissatisfaction in an intense form. Self-identified non-binary people often claim that they have some dysphoria, but it doesn't really mean anything by the end of the day. Plenty of cis people suffer from atypical dysphoria as a result of society around them or some disorders. Doesn't mean that they are actually non-binary. It just means that they have personal issues that they should work out, not fuel them.

Every nb person I talk to about their gender either describes it as hatred for their assigned sex role, which automatically disqualifies this as being anything but social construct, or say that their body doesn't feels like theirs, thus they want to transition to something like this or that. The latter dialogues usually display a pretty obvious link between their non-binary identity and their own traumas, disorders, insecurities, or sometimes even fetishes. A decent transsexual person is not dissociating out of their body, they know and aware that their body is theirs. They don't try to be something they are not in the matter of overall image, such as they don't expect to become a completely different person, with a different look, with different interests. They want to be themselves, while these nb people I have been talking to want to be someone else and actively dissociate out of their actual lives because they are too weak or lazy to do something about it.

Thoughts?
 
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Judes said:
The more I talk to people who identify as non-binary, the more fake the whole concept seems to be. I used to believe that dysphoria is what makes one transgender and non-binary aren't less trans because of that, because atypical dysphoria is still dysphoria.

However, the deeper I dig in the whole thing, the less any of this makes sense. First I'd like to describe what is "dysphoria". Generally this word is used in both psychiatric and casual language, meaning that one is not satisfied with something. It is one of the most common symptoms of almost any common mental disorder, from depression to schizophrenia, from bipolar to dissociative disorders. Not only that, but people with insomnia, chronic pain, anxiety, sexual dysfunction, PMS, and even stress often do experience dysphoria. Some drugs cause it as well. Also, another super important thing to point at - there is a premenstrual dysphoric disorder, notice how it says that 3%-8% of women are affected. It is a huge number. Think about it.
Now, "gender dysphoria" itself is a blurry, vague term as well. What it means is dysphoria caused specifically by gender/sex related things -which are vague things as well,- it doesn't say what exactly is the cause, it doesn't say anything at all, just a word to describe a symptom that resulted from something else, that has to do with gender/sex, but it doesn't specify anything else at all. Our world is still full of sexism and various prejudices, and is still full of social expectations, including "progressive" societies. Things may affect everyone in a different way. The simplest example of which: a girl was growing up a tomboy, but even if her parents might have been accepting, she still could face prejudice from other children or from random encounters. Some girls grew a spine and defend themselves and prove that they aren't less of a female, some others accepted that "they are not really girls" (=identifying out of their birth sex) subconsciously and grew dissatisfied (=dysphoric) of parts or interests that originally caused them feel this way. Since they are dissatisfied with gender-related things, it makes this fall under gender dysphoria term.

So, my point here is - literally every living person out there is dysphoric to some degree, everyone is unsatisfied with something and almost every mentally ill people has dissatisfaction in an intense form. Self-identified non-binary people often claim that they have some dysphoria, but it doesn't really mean anything by the end of the day. Plenty of cis people suffer from atypical dysphoria as a result of society around them or some disorders. Doesn't mean that they are actually non-binary. It just means that they have personal issues that they should work out, not fuel them.

Every nb person I talk to about their gender either describes it as hatred for their assigned sex role, which automatically disqualifies this as being anything but social construct, or say that their body doesn't feels like theirs, thus they want to transition to something like this or that. The latter dialogues usually display a pretty obvious link between their non-binary identity and their own traumas, disorders, insecurities, or sometimes even fetishes. A decent transsexual person is not dissociating out of their body, they know and aware that their body is theirs. They don't try to be something they are not in the matter of overall image, such as they don't expect to become a completely different person, with a different look, with different interests. They want to be themselves, while these nb people I have been talking to want to be someone else and actively dissociate out of their actual lives because they are too weak or lazy to do something about it.

Thoughts?
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To add to this, it's a pretty common thread amongst enbies (and to a certain extent their transtrender "kawaii soft yaoi boi" allies) to throw science that supports dysphoria under the bus because "muh social construct." For instance I recall a study enbies and trenders passed around a lot was this study that was an expansion on previous experiments regarding female vs. male brain development that they claimed proved that there were zero differences in male and female brains and therefore brain development is entirely sociological.

However, what the study actually said was more that male/female brain differences, much like other dymorphic characteristics, seems to exist more on a bell curve since there's tons of other factors that can effect brain development such as mental health, diet, hormones, etc. It also doesn't factor in that there's still studies such as how hormones levels have effects the brain, where even trans people on HRT have noted a significant change in certain behaviors (such as trans men finding it difficult to cry after a few rounds of T) 0r studies on trans people that indicated brain patterns more akin to their identified gender. But enbies and trenders continue to push that misconstrued information anyways, completely oblivious or uncaring as to what going around claiming "lol sexual dymorphism not real" throws everything else about being transgender into question.
 
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You've hit the nail right on the head. I've seen that person before and their Tumblr group and they're all pretentious as hell.
 
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Judes said:
The more I talk to people who identify as non-binary, the more fake the whole concept seems to be. I used to believe that dysphoria is what makes one transgender and non-binary aren't less trans because of that, because atypical dysphoria is still dysphoria.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Seems pretty accurate, although the "laziness" part might be missing something. These rigid new identities are self-protective to ward something off they aren't able to handle otherwise, whether it's abuse, social judgement (not fitting in with other girls or expected female roles), sexual interest they aren't adult enough to process, or an unusual sexuality. Gender dysphoria is co-morbid with depressive/anxiety disorders a huge percentage of the time and so IMO it's often a coping mechanism to prevent self-analysis - it's like a substitute thrown in front of their real crisis so they can fixate on the substitute, because that's comforting and allows them to extend childhood. That's true for all kinds of genderspecials, FtM/enbies/MtF. With female transitioners especially (most enbies are female), developing body dysphoria after being raped/molested/targeted sexually is really common and understandable - nobody wants to feel like they were born wearing a target, so how do you remove that target? Unfortunately you can't actually opt out of biology, but you can develop social signals that you think present you as "tough". Practiced predators will still smell that abuse, and you can see this in action in some LGBTQ communities. But at least regular dudes won't hit on you, and so you create an illusion of safety.

Being a teenage/uni age girl can be a really confusing time sexually if you're not self-assured. You can attract a lot of interest before you're able to handle any of it, and that's really scary. Nobody likes feeling like meat. OR, you can fail to attract any interest when you're interested, and that also feels like shit because all the other girls' pussies are bomb so clearly there's something wrong with you. Both of those situations can create the impulse to escape all of it.
 
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Judes said:
Now, "gender dysphoria" itself is a blurry, vague term as well. What it means is dysphoria caused specifically by gender/sex related things -which are vague things as well,- it doesn't say what exactly is the cause, it doesn't say anything at all, just a word to describe a symptom that resulted from something else, that has to do with gender/sex, but it doesn't specify anything else at all. Our world is still full of sexism and various prejudices, and is still full of social expectations, including "progressive" societies. Things may affect everyone in a different way. The simplest example of which: a girl was growing up a tomboy, but even if her parents might have been accepting, she still could face prejudice from other children or from random encounters. Some girls grew a spine and defend themselves and prove that they aren't less of a female, some others accepted that "they are not really girls" (=identifying out of their birth sex) subconsciously and grew dissatisfied (=dysphoric) of parts or interests that originally caused them feel this way. Since they are dissatisfied with gender-related things, it makes this fall under gender dysphoria term.
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Sorry for answering such an old post, but you saying this kinda helped.
 
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