Nuclear Energy Q&A and Applications - General sperging or questions about nuclear energy.

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What do you think about nuclear energy?

  • It is a great idea!

    Votes: 43 91.5%
  • It is a very bad idea!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I am not sure.

    Votes: 4 8.5%
  • I do not care.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    47
Seems thread is dead so time to revive it.

I haven't seen these cons dismissed/argued so someone help a nigga out:

1. Strategic vulnerability - one argument against nuke energy is that in times of war it would be an extremely vulnerable piece of tech both internally and externally.

2. Specialists - most kids whana eat hot chip and watch tiktok all day not learn advanced mathematics and physics, so what happens to these machines when the brains dry out? Not to mention that the reactors may become accident prone (though i don't think accidents have ever happened in most western nations - might be wrong).
In terms of the structures of nuclear powerplants themselves, the containment vessels and coolant towers are extremely durable and it would take quite a bit to damage them as they are made out of reinforced concrete as they are meant to withstand earthquakes and falling aircraft. This is not to say that they are impossible to damage with a concentrated effort, but there would be much easier targets than a nuclear energy facility...and natural gas and coal plants are both more vulnerable than nuclear reactor sites as well as the fact that damaging them would also be a crippling blow to the energy supply, and accidents at coal and gas plants are also depressingly-routine compared to that of a nuclear power plant.

The biggest issue with nuclear engineering and nuclear engineers is the lack of available positions for them as no new reactor sites have been built since the 1970's so there are not that many jobs available in the nuclear energy industry as turnover is very low. The biggest hurdle for a second nuclear energy renaissance in the US is that we no longer have the industrial capacity to manufacture the components we need to build new nuclear reactors due to the related infrastructure closing down the production of these things due to lack of demand over the decades. As a case in in point, part of why the construction of a new nuclear energy facility is projected to take as long as it does and cost so much, is that the US would now have to turn to overseas producers to manufacture things like reactor vessels and turbine rotors and there is one hell of a waiting queue to put in an order.

We would need one hell of an investment program to get our domestic manufacturing capacity up and running again for nuclear reactor components, but the hurdles are huge even if they are political rather than technical.
 
I think that as an overall way to fulfil the energy requirements in the future, hydro, solar and wind won't cover industrial areas for shit (more news at 11...). These methods are only to cover private households! Nuclear is the way to go logistically (think steel and paper industry), also a nuclear powerplant can also have more stable power so grid wise, it would stabalize the grid more I think (I'm speculating on that part, take my statements with a grain of salt). Oil is limited in the sense of a 100 years plan (assuming we are just burning it, not defending the "green movement" retardation, but it's not a sustainable way of utilizing oil).

However, I just don't trust the current and future engineers (physicists) to handle the technology without risks. I do NOT trust my own peers (or my generation and the demographics around me) with radioactive materials. Particle physics is not easy and you really need people to trust (both in their competence and socially) in these fields since... well, you don't want the technical details to be out there. I know some retard will say "just build passive reactor types", but it's still a radioactive process! So you will still have to trust the engineers to build it safely, which I don't. If they can build the passive one, it's only a matter of time before someone gets greedy and wants the "higher efficiency" ones and you are now having reactors that can go "up in the air" at any moment, and they will because the future is retarded.

I have seen PhD physics students using ChatGPT for undergraduate level stuff (this is not a joke or a shitpost btw, legit sitting with AI chatbots for simple shit, which it also answered wrong!), you think I'm comfortable with these being the future physicists being the ones handeling this tech? No, ban this shit before anything really bad happens! The only way I would be ever be fine with this would be to have universties with:
  • Zero AI usage policy (I would argue that schools in general should have this policy).
  • Particle physics programs being exclusively for Europeans and East Asians. (I know it's an unrealistic /pol/ demand, but we are talking about nuclear stuff here. I want ever single % of safety I can get here!)
  • Reactors only nearby industrial areas, since it's there the power is needed the most (Private households can have the other energy systems).


In short, great idea technology wise. Politically and socially it is litrally a time bοmb.


I don't think fusion will ever work and I'm not even remotely read upon that. I'm just looking at the way they are trying to use magnetic fields and I just don't see how the fuck they can keep that stable 24/7? It has to be a meme right? They want to replicate the suns pressure (generated by it's own mass!) with magnets!? Without calculating, my gut tells me that the energy exchange is a big fat massive net negative on this one. Again, maybe 100 years from now I'm wrong and I'm the retard...
 
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Considering the safety record of nuclear energy even in countries that have a culture of cutting corners such as China, I think that nuclear power plants are probably easier and safer to run compared to other types of power plants, as look at how many people die from disasters related to fossil fuel plants every year. Nobody mentions the people that were killed as a result of the natural gas tank explosion that happened at the Cosmo oil refinery during the 2011 earthquake.

Accidents happen, but I think the accidents that have happened at nuclear power plants pale in comparison to what has happened with other types of energy.
 
Considering the safety record of nuclear energy even in countries that have a culture of cutting corners such as China, I think that nuclear power plants are probably easier and safer to run compared to other types of power plants, as look at how many people die from disasters related to fossil fuel plants every year. Nobody mentions the people that were killed as a result of the natural gas tank explosion that happened at the Cosmo oil refinery during the 2011 earthquake.

Accidents happen, but I think the accidents that have happened at nuclear power plants pale in comparison to what has happened with other types of energy.
What you typed is prehaps true. Shit happens all the time and nobody cares. Working with x-rays is something I personally just don't like. It's an "invisible" killer. You can have a disaster in the lab and you wouldn't know. I really don't like working with radioactive stuff, even if i know that the doses are way below the risk dose (just test samples for educational purpose, nothing can really happen), it's just something that scares me. Now scale this up with strangers you don't trust, it legit worries me. BTW, it's not exactly Chinese people coming to the West getting various physics degrees/diplomas. China is not as much "cutting corners" as people believe due to TEMU drop shipping and LiveLeak memes on construction site, when they are working at "shit that must not break", they are on pair with Western standards. If you want my worries in plain text: Indians and Africans starting to be around nuclear reactors, and I have seen some Indians with some really sketchy cridentials entering and getting PhD positions. With the lack of reading abilities in my generation and below, this accumulated competence crisis doesn't look good.

I would prefer if these future accidents wouldn't involve radioactive contaminations. Let the accidents happen, it's inevitable, but just don't involve radiation!
 
Does anyone know much about subcritical reactors? I've looked into the concepts quite a bit and there's a potential with them to be able to use radioactive waste as a fuel source. Generally speaking the shorter the half-life the easier it is to get a material to eject neutrons, protons, helium nuclei or to fission entirely.
 
Does anyone know much about subcritical reactors? I've looked into the concepts quite a bit and there's a potential with them to be able to use radioactive waste as a fuel source. Generally speaking the shorter the half-life the easier it is to get a material to eject neutrons, protons, helium nuclei or to fission entirely.
There are currently engineering challenges in terms of designing materials that could effectively capture fast neutrons from the neutron source as without scattering them as this could create a lot of thermal stress in what is being used as a neutron moderator.

I think the best way for reducing the half-life of spent fuel is to look at some of the designs of reactors that can be used to breed more fuel from existing stockpiles of spent fuel and the half-lives of the remaining material is drastically-reduced as a result.

I am biased, but I think the best reactor design is currently that of the molten-salt reactor family, particularly liquid-flouride molten salt reactors (LFTRs). They were built experimentally during the 1960s at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, but the plug was pulled on them prematurely as the main focus at the time was looking at new ways of producing military-grade material for weapons and MSRs were useless for that.

Molten-Salt Breeder Reactors:

 
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I see. The idea I had kind of completely drops the idea of trying to have a very sophisticated reactor design. It also was going to make the fuel itself the neutron source and the problems that I could think of were with the excess of neutrons that it'd produce per unit of energy. Namely the idea was to use nuclear spallation via something akin to a high voltage vacuum tube. The energy of the photons produced in terms of eV is going to be just slightly under the voltage the vacuum tube is run at when designed right. Then you'd aim for the source of that tube to fire into a kind of pit. Here's a shitty diagram I've drawn:
shitty diagram for nuclear.webp
The idea being that even though nuclear spallation won't release more energy than what is required to break the pieces(in this case neutrons) apart it does release close to the same amount. Thusly you fire higher energy photons into a higher separation energy material with enough excess energy in the photons to get several spallation events to occur before those neutrons, now at a lower average energy, make it to the lower separation materials(like uranium, thorium and highly radioactive waste products).

Finally you have a cheap surrounding layer of materials that can absorb the neutrons. Silicon is very useful at absorbing neutrons as most of the ratio of silicon isotopes can absorb something like 3 neutrons before they become radioactive and will decay into Phosphorus. Calcium Hydroxide(slaked lime) though can have its calcium atoms absorb neutrons and become excessively more valuable Scandium at the cost of having a more corrosive blanket material. The hydrogen it holds can also help to moderate and then thusly make the neutrons more easily absorbed -- with the bonus of deuterium and tritium being produced. Lighter elements being used as the blanket material means that their neutron absorption(If I'm remembering everything correctly) should generate more heat as well.

This way you have a dumb, cheap source to cause the reactions to occur and you can have a very dumb and cheap pit built to hold the materials. At a safe distance around it too you can have pipes, insulation and support to keep anything leaking into the ground water. The pipes can carry off the heated medium it holds to either a heat exchanger or the turbines for the plant to power it.

Some of the byproducts of the higher separation energy materials would also be precious metals like gold and platinum. Byproducts from radioactive decay would be helium nuclei and if Ca(HO)2 is used then you'd also expect to get deuterium and tritium which could be useful if nuclear fusion ever becomes profitable. Depending on how nuclear spallation imparts its energy too you may be able to calculate how many reactions a singular photon could produce via a triangular number. The materials being separated being heavy elements too means that the neutrons lose less speed per collision.

As for decommissioning the fuel core itself has value to extract from it. Precious metals like mentioned before but also even the blanket material would hold some. The radioactive elements still left over can also be remixed into a new fuel core for the lower separation material layer(s). You could also work in inclusions of neutron reflectors to try and reduce the size of the fuel core and make more use out of the material per photon emitted too.


I prefer my idea to another one I've heard trying to use nuclear spallation from some guy at CERN ages ago. He wanted to use particle accelerators to launch protons into a material -- which just seems daft. The accelerator would be very expensive, need to be cooled(more expense) and you get too many protons out of something like that which will all be reactive and corrode things. There are already enough issues with corrosion from neutrons as it is.

Also for finding nuclear separation materials, NuDat has a wonderful system. I mostly just need to know how the initiating neutron would handle the interaction with the nucleus it's spalling. Would the atom and the ejected neutron split the surplus energy or would the ejected neutron just about take all of it? Would the energy lost from the initiating neutron's collision find its way into the nucleus, neutron or both? Things like that. Don't be too harsh, I have no formal education in any of this.
 
Also, a few things I probably should've included in my last post would be photodisintegration, nuclear spallation and energy amplifiers so I don't come off as that much of a deranged loon. There's also the nuclear binding energy curve which is the basis behind why uranium and such even releases energy from its fission -- that is that uranium and other heavier nuclei have stored energy in the form of their mass.

Some figures for the energy release of nuclei too:
Lead 208(52.47% abundance) has a neutron separation energy of 7367.87~ eV, an atomic weight of about 207.9766520~ amu, with lead 207 + 1 free neutron(the one we break off from lead 208 ) combing to an amu of 207.9845668(206.9758968 + 1.00867). This leaves 0.0072384 amu(207.9845668 - 207.9766520) of mass unaccounted for which is about 7371592.149605444 eV of energy. An alternative way to look at this in by comparing nucleon binding energies of lead 207 and lead 208. Doing that gives 7,367.9626 less eV for lead 207 than lead 208 in total nucleon binding energy.

Let me know if I've messed anything up either.
 
Can the waste be sent into the sun or into deep space? That's something I've always wondered.

If we sent the waste away, there would be very little criticism left.
Way too expensive. Nuclear waste is very dense and heavy, it needs a lot of energy to shoot it into space.
Also, spent fuel still contains like 98% of its original energy because regular slow reactors are not very good at burning up fuel. So recycling fuel would be much more advisable, it'd also reduce the amount of waste that has to be stored for extremely long times.
You can recycle fuel rods in reprocessing plants, or use fast breeder reactors. These have been developed back in the seventies because they thought uranium reserves were much smaller and utilising fuel more efficiently was desired. But then it turned out uranium was much more plentiful and it was cheaper to just produce more fresh fuel than recycling it. There is some reprocessing going on, but it's also expensive so there aren't too many facilities doing that.

The thing about the waste disposal is that it is a political bargaining chip. Those against nuclear power will never allow a truly viable disposal solution since they think that "but what about muh waste" is an argument against using nuclear power. Even though nuclear waste already exists and is a problem that has to be solved either way, and continued use or not doesn't change that.
There's always the argument "but muh fast breeders don't exist, just one in Russia, it doesn't work". Well, we could have been decades ahead with the technology. We had a grid scale fast breeder built in Germany, the sodium was heated and circulating in its coolant cycle. Guess what, the government changed and pulled the plug on the reactor before it received fuel. Now it's an amusement park.
France had two fast breeders. The first demonstrator ran quite well, the second had issues. It also had terrorists (a now deceased green politician from Switzerland) shooting the construction site with an RPG and constant protests.
No shit the technology isn't here yet, these faggots always block it.
There's a high temperature gas cooled reactor running in China now, guess what, that technology was developed in Germany in the 70s/80s as well. It had issues and the people responsible were idiots about it, but it had potential. These idiots had an issue with leakage and tried to keep it under wraps, right when chernobyl happened. So that was retarded, but the technology was sound. Could have been decades ahead again.

Many issues are purely political.
Nuclear power is a bit of an interest of mine and I have some work experience in the industry. So I might be able to answer some technical questions.

/edit:
I don't think fusion will ever work and I'm not even remotely read upon that. I'm just looking at the way they are trying to use magnetic fields and I just don't see how the fuck they can keep that stable 24/7? It has to be a meme right? They want to replicate the suns pressure (generated by it's own mass!) with magnets!? Without calculating, my gut tells me that the energy exchange is a big fat massive net negative on this one. Again, maybe 100 years from now I'm wrong and I'm the retard...
You got a few things wrong there. First of all, there are many different approaches to nuclear fusion. The most common and well known is magnetic confinement (of which there are several different types as), and there they don't replicate the Sun's pressure. So for nuclear fusion reactions to occur you need pressure, temperature, and time. It's called the triple product, and you can exchange time and pressure and temperature for each other. So if you have lower pressure, you need more temperature and so on. In the very common TOKAMAK magnetic confinement approach, the confinement time is up to a few seconds (a TOKAMAK can only work pulsed, although there are some workarounds to keep the plasma current going while the primary coil resets), pressure is very low, but temperature is very high. A different type of magnetic confinement is the Stellarator, it can theoretically run continuously due to its magnetic field geometry, but pressure and temperature are similar to a TOKAMAK.
The most promising approaches right now seem to be inertial confinement approaches, where confinement time is really short, but pressure and temperatures are very high. This is what works in a thermonuclear bomb, and it's the only approach that so far has shown net energy production at the National Ignition Facility laser experiment. It was just scientific net gain, so fusion output exceeded laser energy on target, but it does seem promising. With increasing laser efficiency (the NIF laser is hilariously inefficient) and a slightly different approach (direct vs indirect drive) one can very likely get proper net energy gain from this.
As for energy exchange, you gotta understand how massive nuclear fusion reactions are. We're talking MeV per reaction, magnitudes larger than even nuclear fission. So very small amounts of fuel can yield shitloads of energy.
I can go into more detail on various fusion approaches, too. Nuclear power is a bit of an interest, but nuclear fusion is a HUGE interest.
Also, work experience in that field.
 
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Way too expensive.
If it's between humanity dying out and spending money on something expensive (no idea if those are the two choices) then spending all the money in the world seems quite reasonable.

That was the premise under which I was saying this.
 
If it's between humanity dying out and spending money on something expensive (no idea if those are the two choices) then spending all the money in the world seems quite reasonable.

That was the premise under which I was saying this.
Yeah, but humanity won't die out because of the nuclear waste. The total volume of it is extremely small, and as I said, it is still extremely valuable. Closing the fuel cycle with fast breeder reactors would allow us to use nuclear fission for our energy needs much longer, reduce the amount of waste to a fraction, and also reduce the long-lived waste products significantly.
Right now nuclear waste has to be stored for tens of thousands of years because some of the isotopes in the decay chains have very long half lifes. As such they're not very radioactive, but you don't want them to leak anywhere either, since they're also heavy metals and usually toxic af. So ideally you'd want to use the fuels as much as possible so that the waste is a fraction of the size and of shortlived isotopes.
With the right geological conditions and preparations you can just store it underground. Finland built a final storage solution with their new OL3 reactor, but of course, due to political pressure it's sized so that it will only take exactly the amount of waste that the reactor will generate over its lifetime, and it will be finally sealed after that.
And in the end, solving the issue is not in the interest of anti-nuclear activists. Solving the issue is giving away a bargaining chip. "But waste hasn't been solved!" is usually the first or second argument against nuclear power, so it won't be allowed to be solved as long as there's anyone who wants to or even can build a nuclear power plant.
 
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>be germany
>fukushitmypants happens
>oh no reactors can nuclear explood?
>start dismantling nuclear energy in the whole country
>promise to replace it all with solar and wind
>skip forward few years
>build solar and wind
>start taking reactors offline, permanently
>oh no the windshit and solarcucknels dont produce enough power
>who couldve seen that coming
>not a napkin and a pen
>replace solar and wind with gas power plants
>buy gas from russia
>fast forward to 2022
>uhh yeah maybe that wasnt a good idea


i hate the german government so much.
Does anyone know much about subcritical reactors? I've looked into the concepts quite a bit and there's a potential with them to be able to use radioactive waste as a fuel source. Generally speaking the shorter the half-life the easier it is to get a material to eject neutrons, protons, helium nuclei or to fission entirely.
Nuclear batteries are like that, they use decay heat to produce a bit of power to keep something really important powered for a long long time.
I dont remember if the soviet nuclear batteries for radio relays worked like that, they were hot enough to boil water.
tl;dr few people find a hot piece of metal and decice to sleep next to it, turns out its a radioactive nuclear battery.
They arent "reactors" like a reactor is, but they produce energy through a nuclear reaction.


Using nuclear waste as a fuel source would need you to refine the waste so there wouldnt be any funny business.
Generally, nuclear waste comes in two forms, low energy and high energy.
Low energy is stuff like pieces of shielding, PPE used for handling nuclear material, empty nuclear containers and low activity isotopes.
Its pretty mundane when it comes to waste.
But high energy nuclear waste is tricky, because its active and produces heat. Before burying it, its often packed into cooling towers/containers and it just sits there being cooled for as long as its reactive, then its buried.
There was a time when in soviet union a cooling system for high activity nuclear waste failed and the containers exploded from the pressure and spread a cloud of radioactive particles.
The reason why it happened was due to soviets being so secretive about nuclear stuff, the local towns didnt even exist on map so they all got a good dose of radioactive particles.
So tl;dr nuclear waste can be used but its "finnicky" and comes in all sorts of flavors of nasty and would need to be refined.

You can make a nuclear battery at home if you have like, 200 bucks, but it will produce very little power. enough to keep something like, a clock running for 20 years.
You just need some small but very efficient solar panels, and radioactive tritium ampules(radioactive hydrogen inside glass capsule, inside of which has been coated in phosphor that produces light when hit by alpha particles, commonly used in emergency exit lighting and gun night sights that arent digital or analog).
 
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I dont remember if the soviet nuclear batteries for radio relays worked like that, they were hot enough to boil water.
I'm pretty sure they did. If I remember correctly they used radioactive caesium isotopes and there were some issues with people trying to scrap them getting radiation sickness afterwards. Also I think if you can get tritium ampules at home then you might want to try for something a bit easier for nuclear batteries. Couldn't you make a nuclear battery with the radioactive bits from smoke detectors? Namely having some kind of conductive matrix that you put the radioactive bits into and will get excited whenever an alpha particle rips through it.

Beyond that though, my ideas with nuclear waste for energy production had more to do with energy amplifiers as I put in the post after that one. The idea being that you could "burn", for lack of a better word, radioactive materials to get them to release energy sooner and transition them towards more stable isotopes sooner rather than later.
 
if you can get tritium ampules at home then you might want to try for something a bit easier for nuclear batteries. Couldn't you make a nuclear battery with the radioactive bits from smoke detectors? Namely having some kind of conductive matrix that you put the radioactive bits into and will get excited whenever an alpha particle rips through it.
Tritium ampules are safe, americium reactor isnt. Look up the atomic boyscout, he did just that.
Fuck, i dont even wanna know how cumbersome and dangerous a nuclear battery made from americium would be.


tl;dr on atomic boyscout:
gets stupid amount of old fire alarms that contain americium
fakes his credentials to get essential elements and parts to build DIY small nuclear reactor in his shed
someone starts asking questions, FBI thinks theres a terrorist making a dirty bomb or someshit
feds show up with a geiger counter, shack is radioactive, boyscout has visible radiation burns on his skin
entire yard gets dug up and packed as "low nuclear waste"
gets the bill for cleanup
boyscout uses this as credentials to apply to work with nuclear reactors in the US nav
gets denied on the basis that what he did was either stupidly dangerous, or dangerously stupid
gets depressed
die

Tritium nuclear batteries are photo voltaic, there isnt NEARLY enough radioactivity to be dangerous. Its just that they produce very little electrical power, enough to power some small circuitry.
The battery has half life of 12 or so years, so every 12 years you lose 50% of power.
So if you want to run a clock for 30 years, you need to have excess material to count for the half life.
This is a very simple and cheap one, there are schematics out there for way better ones.

As a real life comparison, ive used RK rifles with built in tritium night iron sights from the 90s.
They had gone through about two half lives and were getting dim, but bright enough to get a sight picture in the dark.
For reference, one officer had got himself tritium sights for his glock, the brightness was night and day between the two.

Major use of nuclear batteries nowdays is in keeping satellites powered because refueling them is nigh impossible.
The reason why soviet nuclear batteries have such a bad reputation is because the documentation them were lost or the people in charge of monitoring them lost their job when soviet union broke and most of them didnt give a fuck about the documentation and the higher ups had "bigger problems" than few really radioactive sources that could be used very maliciously.
 
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Random commentless content drop because someone forwarded it to me
 
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My main issue with nuclear power is the cost.
One of the newest nuke plants in the US is in my area.
A few years back they started paperwork to shut down.
They said they can not compete with coal, oil and natural gas produced power on the open market.

My state is stupid so rather than approving a bunch of natural gas fired plants they started dealing out subsidies to this plant to offset the higher production costs.
Keep in mind my state has some of the most expensive power because of the many not fully decommissioned but no longer producing power nuke plants that utility customers are forced to pay for.

Many of those plants never delivered the cost savings that were promised when the plants were being built.
They cost much more, were less reliable and made less power than advertised.

Then there is the issue of the waste.
According to the law, waste from nuclear reactors is a federal issue.
When all these plants were built communities were promised "If this plant ever closes all the radioactive waste will go somewhere else and this are will be available for redevelopment. It's not going to become some nuclear waste dump, I can tell you that much."

Congress spent billions building a bunker for the waste.
It was in Nevada and while he liked the spending in his state to build it, Harry Reid was opposed to the bunker actually holding any waste.
So 0bama used his pen and his phone to kill the Nevada bunker in spite of it nearly being finished.

So the feds still have no way to deal with the waste.
We are told now the new hotness is Dry Cask Storage.
They encase the waste in concrete and leave it at the plant and it has to be guarded for the next 10,000 years or so.

"We will leave the site how we found it." has slowly morphed into "Every reactor site will be a nuclear waste dump for the next 10,000 years." and the pro nuke team tries to sell this as a feature not a bug.

"Dry Cask Storage is superior because the waste never has to leave the reactor site."
If you live no where near a reactor I guess that would be "superior".
If you live near one and were promised waste would not be left there, lets just say "superior" would not be my choice of word.

If you lived somewhere that rational adults were in charge, where long term plans could be made and followed, nuclear could be a viable, yet expensive option.

If you believe that CO2 is going to make Gaia so mad that she will cook the puny humans off of the planet to lower it, it might even be worth the high costs.
(I don't believe this but I am willing to accept that some people do)

In the US any long term plan can be abandoned for no better reason than "A guy on my team asked me to" or "The other team thought it was a good idea".
That does not bode well for the feds EVER getting a handle on "the nuclear waste problem".

Thank you for attending my Ted Talk on "Why as a consumer who pays a utility bill, I am against nuclear power".

I could have sworn I typed this up on some other "Hey, isn't nuclear power the bee's knees?" thread but I couldn't find it.
 
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