Off-The-Grid: Have you considered it? Tried it? - Unofficial Jeremiah Johnson Fanclub

[Red Hood]

I recognize the irony of using the internet to ask about it, but has anyone here considered leaving behind most modern conveniences for a simpler existence?

Philosophically, it's a very appealing concept. To be free from the rat race existence and trying to stay afloat and having to deal with technology and expense and to not have to answer to any boss but nature itself. To live and die purely by your own actions and to be fully responsible for yourself.

Realistically, the logistics don't really work in your favor though. It's near impossible to really "disappear" in today's world. I guarantee that people you owe money to aren't going to be thrilled if you try to disappear. Private land, of course, costs a lot of money and public land cannot be freely used either if the BLM or other services has any say over it. And to top that all off, a lot of those modern conveniences? Health care, bug spray, things like that- are great things to have.

I ask because my cousin and her husband are kind of doing the off-the-grid thing and while helping them roof their bug-out shelter it's got me thinking about the pros and cons of it. They plan to grow their own food and do subsistence farming as well as hunt on the parcel of land they bought. I mean I hope it works out well for them but I really don't know how, in the US at least, you can leave all those modern conveniences behind.

Has anyone had any experience with this kind of thing? I'm curious.

 

[DumbDosh]

I always keep that log cabin out in the woods in the middle of nowhere in the back of my mind whenever I get frustrated by society. I would never try to make that a reality because it is way easier and more enjoyable to have the ability to use the internet and go pick up coke and rum at a store 5 minutes away, but it's just nice to have as a fantasy.

There was a guy in my city growing up who killed his family, burned his house and then fucked off to a bunker in the woods he had slowly been building over years, I think it took like 2 weeks to track him down and bring him in, so I don't think anyone can reliably live off the grid, especially if they have people looking for them.

 

[BeanBidan]

I actually thought of it before. I can say goodbye to tech and civilization. My only problem is my animals because I love those fuckers to death I couldn't let them deal with that.

 

[OhGoy]

I've considered doing something similar, but only temporarily. I'd do it so I could truly appreciate the life I have now, feel some actual humility, become stronger mentally and physically, etc. That's theoretically speaking, of course... but yeah. It's been on my mind for a few months, though I haven't done anything like it since I'm a weak, cowardly human-being procrastinator. I don't really know how I'd begin to do anything like it in the first place.

I'd imagine "going off the grid" for a while, and then eventually integrating back into normal society would improve most people mentally and/or morally, or at the very least teach them some humility. To decide to do it for the rest of your life, though? I don't know what to think about that. All I can say is that you'd need to think about that decision for a long, long time before going through with it.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

I think after a short time most people would realize why our society has a grid and want to be on it. I'd be bored out of my mind pretty quick, and the survival shit wouldn't be fun for long.

It's nice to go out into the woods or up a mountain, but that's not the same thing you're talking about.

 

[Bassomatic]

It's my retirement plan honestly.

I can and do go out with nothing and come back healthier happier and with out losing a pound. Done survival schools etc. What I am hoping to do is ease my self in, get a job can work from home, move to where I want to and slowly convert the place to have the comforts but piece by piece off the grid, IE convert to well, cut public water. build gardens etc. I don't want to drone on the details here, so I won't expand much on the plans but they are a lot better than "go inna woods cut down power pole".

I have a future that will allow this and I won't power level the how who what where or why. But even more so I think tech we can move this way with more and more comfort than expected, if desired. Heat for example, while a heat pump isn't the best or cheapest, we are having batteries that last months outside powered by solar. In the time I'll be ready to do this, I bet you I can have my panels up top and stay toasty days I can't get a fire started in the house, in theory. If not, I know how to do it with out.

Till then keep active honing my skills etc.

As far as land, buy what you need (if you really do want remote it's cheaper than you think) set up a system to auto pay for tax thru a long term accounting company CPA etc, as long as you have enough to roll over and pay the bills no one cares. Again in the places it's still cheap taxes will be low. If you have say 100k in the bank and tax bill of 2k .... you better have your broker accountant making more than that. Let's say they take 2% that's 4k a year, the next year 101k at 5%, and that's giving a lot of leway to a bad market and over charging broker.

As for the moral/social aspect, I'm an outgoing person I like people I'm also fine by myself, I just did over a week away and barely spoke a word or saw another human. I didn't feel an ounce of loneliness. With out getting into to much hippy sounding shit, I feel a lot of joy and learning from each minor task. Once this change took part in me I knew I can/could move out inna woods and be happy and just enjoy life. I also love to test myself and I don't know much more a test than doing life on your own literally with out modern tech. You fall and break a leg? You still need dinner, water etc and we are talking months of healing.

edit: for some reason cut me off.

I also made sure before I really thought or looked into this, I thought about what drives me there. If you want to get out of the race etc, you are doing it for the wrong reasons. You can be in the system as much or as little as you want. In some ways people call me a winner, some a loser. If you see me walking by you I don't stick out, that's every person ever. Do I like a lot of society? Fuck no. I'll spare what and ranting, but end of the day most of it doesn't effect me. I think Game of Thrones looks silly. If you like it, good. How does that show effect my career? My friends? My cat and me watching birds out back? It doesn't. You need to first unplug yourself from those little minor things that irk you but don't effect you. Lots of people run away from problems.

Going off the grid is just doing that to an extreme for most people who talk about it. Even being 100% alone off the grid won't be perfect, while I don't get lonely, let's say I go tomorrow, what happens when my cat passes away? If today, I can replace him (after grieving) inna woods, I have no pet. Period. Also... getting laid will require some really slow deer or toothless raccoons (i keeed). You can't look at off the grid as ShangaLa.

You need to think about it as will it out weigh what I got, in reality, no different than if are fighting to move to one city or the other.

 

[JustStopDude]

I do not mean to offend peoples here. I find westerners romanticize hard living because of TV and films fail to accurately show reality.

Like zombie survival shows...biggest threat is water borne diseases and malnutrition, not shambling zombies.

And many people fantasy that somehow society collapse and then everyone goes solo. In reality, you gang up. Strength in groups.

 

[Red Hood]

I do not mean to offend peoples here. I find westerners romanticize hard living because of TV and films fail to accurately show reality.

Like zombie survival shows...biggest threat is water borne diseases and malnutrition, not shambling zombies.

And many people fantasy that somehow society collapse and then everyone goes solo. In reality, you gang up. Strength in groups.

You didn't offend, you just kind of miss the point. This isn't about doomsday scenarios, it's about debating the pros and cons of leaving today's overly technology reliant society for a more primitive lifestyle.

 

[JustStopDude]

You didn't offend, you just kind of miss the point.

I am very good at that.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

I think after a short time most people would realize why our society has a grid and want to be on it. I'd be bored out of my mind pretty quick, and the survival shit wouldn't be fun for long.

It's nice to go out into the woods or up a mountain, but that's not the same thing you're talking about.

I like modern conveniences, but the real reason I wouldn't do this would be because of the loneliness. Even doing it with your spouse, like OP's cousin and her husband, seems like it could really easily ruin their relationship.

You didn't offend, you just kind of miss the point. This isn't about doomsday scenarios, it's about debating the pros and cons of leaving today's overly technology reliant society for a more primitive lifestyle.

I agree with him on the 'strength in groups' thing--there's really nothing primitive about living in the woods all by yourself. Our ancestors lived in tribes. Of course the problem with trying to replicate that is you're basically going to wind up with a commune, and that's terrible.

 

[Red Hood]

I like modern conveniences, but the real reason I wouldn't do this would be because of the loneliness. Even doing it with your spouse, like OP's cousin and her husband, seems like it could really easily ruin their relationship.

I agree with him on the 'strength in groups' thing--there's really nothing primitive about living in the woods all by yourself. Our ancestors lived in tribes. Of course the problem with trying to replicate that is you're basically going to wind up with a commune, and that's terrible.

Depends on how far back you're going, I suppose. More recent ancestors, in the US and Europe, commonly worked family farms. I'm not in any sense referring to primitive as wearing a loincloth and throwing spears at things. By primitive I'm referring to relying less on powered equipment and outside supply lines.

What I've taken away from this is a realization on just how much I rely on those supply lines for my own lifestyle. I'm not really considering going off the grid myself outside of the occasional primitive camping trip but it's interesting to discuss and think about. The closest I'll probably get is to do some small-time farming (big back yard).

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

Depends on how far back you're going, I suppose. More recent ancestors, in the US and Europe, commonly worked family farms. I'm not in any sense referring to primitive as wearing a loincloth and throwing spears at things. By primitive I'm referring to relying less on powered equipment and outside supply lines.

What I've taken away from this is a realization on just how much I rely on those supply lines for my own lifestyle. I'm not really considering going off the grid myself outside of the occasional primitive camping trip but it's interesting to discuss and think about. The closest I'll probably get is to do some small-time farming (big back yard).

That's fair. What worries me is when I see people from the lower 48, but especially states east of the Mississippi, talk about going off-grid/homesteading in Alaska. I'm from one of those east-of-the-Mississippi states, and I am totally aware that I have no way to grasp the true isolation of rural Alaska and, even from a northern state, the harshness of its winters. The potential for catastrophe is way higher than going off grid in, say, Kentucky.

 

[Red Hood]

That's fair. What worries me is when I see people from the lower 48, but especially states east of the Mississippi, talk about going off-grid/homesteading in Alaska. I'm from one of those east-of-the-Mississippi states, and I am totally aware that I have no way to grasp the true isolation of rural Alaska and, even from a northern state, the harshness of its winters. The potential for catastrophe is way higher than going off grid in, say, Kentucky.

Not to mention people moving from one climate to another often have no goddamn idea what they're getting into. As when I moved from the Southwest to the Southeast. If we were supposed to live in Alaska it wouldn't have Kodiak bears.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

I think it's highly debatable whether or not it is even possible to truly live "off-the-grid". Sure, you can sell all of your worldly possessions, quit your job, hunt all of your own food, and go camping out in the woods somewhere, but this choice is arguably made available to you by the very society that you're supposedly turning your back on.

If said society didn't exist, then you'd most likely wind up dead, for the very reason that everybody else would be forced to do the exact same thing, and they'd all be competing with you directly for food and resources.

We've all read the harrowing tales of explorers who resorted to murder and cannibalism after their expeditions went pare-shaped, and I think we can all imagine a litany of similar (and worse) scenarios if first and second world civilization were to suddenly go up in smoke. In this context, the idea of living off-the-grid becomes less of an idealized alternative lifestyle peddled by libertarians and eco-hipsters, and more a kind of bleak and hopeless existence that could perhaps best be described as Hell on Earth.

The appeal of such a lifestyle is not lost on me, but I recognize it for what it is: a first-world luxury, dressed up with illusory pretensions of rugged individualism. If a few hipsters do it, it's not without it's charm, but if everybody did it, we would all be very miserable for it (those of us lucky enough to survive, that is).

 

[Bassomatic]

I think it's highly debatable whether or not it is even possible to truly live "off-the-grid". Sure, you can sell all of your worldly possessions, quit your job, hunt all of your own food, and go camping out in the woods somewhere, but this choice is arguably made available to you by the very society that you're supposedly turning your back on.

If said society didn't exist, then you'd most likely wind up dead, for the very reason that everybody else would be forced to do the exact same thing, and they'd all be competing with you directly for food and resources.

We've all read the harrowing tales of explorers who resorted to murder and cannibalism after their expeditions went pare-shaped, and I think we can all imagine a litany of similar (and worse) scenarios if first and second world civilization were to suddenly go up in smoke. In this context, the idea of living off-the-grid becomes less of an idealized alternative lifestyle peddled by libertarians and eco-hipsters, and more a kind of bleak and hopeless existence that could perhaps best be described as Hell on Earth.

The appeal of such a lifestyle is not lost on me, but I recognize it for what it is: a first-world luxury, dressed up with illusory pretensions of rugged individualism. If a few hipsters do it, it's not without it's charm, but if everybody did it, we would all be very miserable for it (those of us lucky enough to survive, that is).

Since the dawn of time, and we did live in caves, and tribal situations, there always have and always will be hermits. So your first point I fully can't even grasp what you are trying to imply. You are saying, you can live like a caveman, because we aren't cavemen. What? I brought up a very serious issue, of land ownership and tax, these things make it harder to go off the grid than before land being claimed up.

I don't disagree, we are lucky to have medical advancements and having your childhood shots a living off the land person has leaps and bounds help in survival. That's awesome, and makes it more possible than our forefathers who had to make due and yet still made it or we wouldn't be here now.

We are a tribal social animal overall it's why we banded up, no one here said, it'll be easier or more gets done on a solo survival life. Why you bring this up as a counter point is kind of strange.

Things can go wrong, real bad wrong. Fatally wrong. But let's also not forget you can get side swiped by a semi on your drive to work. We as a species don't factor the worst in, often. So people whom want to do this don't think about malaria as much as you don't think about being electrocuted by your cell phone. It can and does happen but it's out of our control.

I can't disagree with your final point, it's in ways a luxury. Let's take the working poor in the industrial revolution, day in day out they were in a smog filled factory shoveling or grinding etc just to put food on the plate. Here I am chilly in my office, sitting in a nice chair and I can afford to let my primal side out in a vacation. In some parts of the world what I call camping, they call Tuesday. That's still their way of life. Now to expand why wouldn't I just go there, two reasons one it's to be solo and second those people who still are like that are not able to make the choice, if I was living in the woods here in the US I don't think I'll have to deal with bands of raiders as much as if I did in the bush of Africa. Why? I could have gold bars or nothing it's not worth hiking up a mountain in the US to raid people like me. In those tribal areas, it's worth trying because ain't nothing else to do any no other resources.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

But people who want to do this don't have to worry about malaria--because it's been eradicated in the US, thanks to dedicated work by our advanced society. And the amount of wild animals you're going to encounter living in the woods is way, way fewer than it would have been for the natives five hundred years ago, because of how many we've shot. It sounds like he's more complaining about primitivist types who want to 'rewild' themselves than people who just wanna get away and be independent.

 

[Red Hood]

But people who want to do this don't have to worry about malaria--because it's been eradicated in the US, thanks to dedicated work by our advanced society. And the amount of wild animals you're going to encounter living in the woods is way, way fewer than it would have been for the natives five hundred years ago, because of how many we've shot. It sounds like he's more complaining about primitivist types who want to 'rewild' themselves than people who just wanna get away and be independent.

You would be surprised at how many of particular species of animals there are roaming wild. In the southeast US at least, deer are abundant to an incredible degree. I threw a football at one to get it out of my driveway last year.

 

[Bassomatic]

But people who want to do this don't have to worry about malaria--because it's been eradicated in the US, thanks to dedicated work by our advanced society. And the amount of wild animals you're going to encounter living in the woods is way, way fewer than it would have been for the natives five hundred years ago, because of how many we've shot. It sounds like he's more complaining about primitivist types who want to 'rewild' themselves than people who just wanna get away and be independent.

I'm not disagreeing with that, he's saying we'd be worse off now than 500 years ago, you and I are saying we have some head starts.

Now wild animals that is completely depending on your area, over population and underpopulation are things. Again due to our advanced techs, we now have the problem of invasive species, animals brought to a place and taking over. This could be a help or hinderance.

I didn't take anything he said personally, nor did I respond in kind, this is the DT area, we are all friendly here. There are survival schools camps etc to re wild. If you want to do em, go a head. I will suggest some if anyone asks, but the if you don't have/learn any of these skills and then just want to unplug from humanity you are in for a bad time.

Much like you shouldn't jump in a Ferrari with out knowing how to drive, you shouldn't just go inna woods alone with out knowing how to build a fire. People who do this or want to do this, are a mess and if it wasn't for "off grid" they would be idiots toward another thing.

I'm not trying to back seat mod, but we are having a nice talk about what and why causes us want to do so not laugh at the lolcows of the ideas. We have some threads on idiots who solar charge a go pro and show us what living smashing to rocks together already.

 

[Red Hood]

I'm not disagreeing with that, he's saying we'd be worse off now than 500 years ago, you and I are saying we have some head starts.

Now wild animals that is completely depending on your area, over population and underpopulation are things. Again due to our advanced techs, we now have the problem of invasive species, animals brought to a place and taking over. This could be a help or hinderance.

I didn't take anything he said personally, nor did I respond in kind, this is the DT area, we are all friendly here. There are survival schools camps etc to re wild. If you want to do em, go a head. I will suggest some if anyone asks, but the if you don't have/learn any of these skills and then just want to unplug from humanity you are in for a bad time.

Much like you shouldn't jump in a Ferrari with out knowing how to drive, you shouldn't just go inna woods alone with out knowing how to build a fire. People who do this or want to do this, are a mess and if it wasn't for "off grid" they would be idiots toward another thing.

I'm not trying to back seat mod, but we are having a nice talk about what and why causes us want to do so not laugh at the lolcows of the ideas. We have some threads on idiots who solar charge a go pro and show us what living smashing to rocks together already.

Invasive species aren't just limited to animals. Plants can be pretty invasive too- kudzu is probably what springs to mind in the US, but of all things tumbleweeds aka Russian thistle originated on the Russian steppe despite their association with the wild west.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Since the dawn of time, and we did live in caves, and tribal situations, there always have and always will be hermits. So your first point I fully can't even grasp what you are trying to imply. You are saying, you can live like a caveman, because we aren't cavemen. What? I brought up a very serious issue, of land ownership and tax, these things make it harder to go off the grid than before land being claimed up.

I'm not saying that individuals can't live in caves or choose to adopt a more primitive lifestyle. I just see it as a quirky alternative lifestyle choice, and one that ironically wouldn't be possible without the discretion of the very society that the proponents of off-the-grid living claim to reject.

No man is an island, and you can't run away from the society you're a part of, no matter how much you may delude yourself into thinking that you have done. If society were to suddenly decide on aggregate that you living a nomadic existence was somehow a danger or an inconvenience to others, then they would find a way to put a stop to it, and you would have very little recourse to stop them without serious numbers on your side.

So what's stopping you from amassing the numbers? Quite simply, the fact that such lifestyles are a luxury in the first world, and to understand why they are a luxury, all you have to do is familiarize yourself with the concept of carrying capacity.

When everybody lived a nomadic existence (i.e. before the agricultural revolution), the world population hovered at around 6 million people (this was, roughly speaking, the natural carrying capacity for humans before civilization). Today, there are over 7 billion people, and that number is expected to reach 10 billion by the middle of this century. We couldn't sustain that number of people without the innovations integral to what you might call "the grid", and hence, such a thing is practically inescapable. Even by living out in the wilderness somewhere, you are no less at the behest of modern trappings than anyone else.