Official Kiwi Farms Man-Hate Thread

if i try to talk about any of the three things above it somehow gets turned into my fault (you need to forgive your abuser and get over it, forgive and talk to your dad and get over it, get over the man who broke your heart, ect)
People's disproportionate empathy for men and lack of empathy for women is truly astounding. I genuinely wonder if the reason women tend to be more moral and self regulated (e.g. they do better in school, commit less crime, abandon their children less often, suffer from less addictions etc.) isn't just because of relatively less testosterone exposure or something but instead because they're held to a wayyyy higher moral standard than men their entire lives.

I dated my first bf for 6 years, got engaged, and then a month before the wedding he tells me he's been a secret alcoholic this entire time (at first I wasn't even sure if he was telling the truth but he briefly attempted AA and I know a year after our breakup he flunked out of his job and shit). Naturally, I was furious after, but the sheer number of people who took pity on him and insisted I do the same despite being lied to for years was insane. I guarantee you at no point did anyone encourage him to be empathetic as to why I'd be fucking pissed about this.
 
Speaking of “dark romance smut”, I am beginning to question if half of them are even written by women. When I read the summary of “Haunting Adeline”, I was getting Scrote vibes from it.
It's also inaccurate to suggest women reading smut is equivalent to the porn that moids tend to indulge in, since they frequently have actual women being raped or otherwise abused in them. It's not even close.
 
are we allowed to PL here? I need to get some shit off my chest...

I was abused by a MAN when I was young which has caused me severe psychological damage. My father left my family and has particularly treated me the worst. A man to whom I gave unwavering affection and love to broke my heart for an unknown reason. i'm trying my best at life (getting higher ed degrees, have an okay amount of money, living on my own, ect) but all i want is a man that will treat me right. why is this so hard? I hate that I love men and want them AND they treat me like shit. the worst part? if i try to talk about any of the three things above it somehow gets turned into my fault (you need to forgive your abuser and get over it, forgive and talk to your dad and get over it, get over the man who broke your heart, ect) none of these men have ever suffered consequences for what they did to me but it's up to ME to forgive and forget. where's my apology? I don't know what I'm doing wrong in life to make men be so fucked up towards me. thanks for reading my rant, ladies

tl;dr I don't hate men but I really hate men

:feels:
1. Who are you (irl) trying to talk to about these things? Are pros telling you to "get over it," or do you mean random people?

2. It's very common, in the absence of certain fundamental safety/security pieces in childhood, to end up being drawn to people or situations that essentially re-create the injury or exploit you. And being abused, or being rejected/left by a parent, can create an enormous hole that has you forever seeking that missing piece...which unfortunately can drive behavior and sub/unconscious levels, and/or make a person blind to signals and motives, due or related to the lack of an adequately strong sense of inner core self/self-regard. (And that applies even if you are a strong personality/ accomplished/ dynamic/achiever - actual self esteem/self-worth is different.)

3. You may/likely will never get an apology. Your "journey" is to move from feeling injured and put-upon to becoming a whole person who doesn't need an apology and doesn't feel emotional identification as a still-injured victim. That may sound wrong and unfair and angering - which it is. But there's anger that disadvantages and weakens you, makes a person needy or desperate; and then there's resolved anger that is part of strengthening. If a person is in a state of need, it's not uncommon to accept less and less, anything just to try to get a sliver of that need met... and winding up getting even less than that. (It can also oddly sometimes result in feeling or acting entitled to love/attention/whatever, while still being scared and desperate underneath.) In other words, past injuries can turn a person into an unwitting participant in present and future ones.

It is possible to get beyond that disempowered state and get beyond "why me?" or seeking someone just finally to be nice to you - but it takes work. Anyone looking for someone to save them is at the mercy of whoever turns up.


I dated my first bf for 6 years, got engaged, and then a month before the wedding he tells me he's been a secret alcoholic this entire time (at first I wasn't even sure if he was telling the truth but he briefly attempted AA and I know a year after our breakup he flunked out of his job and shit). Naturally, I was furious after, but the sheer number of people who took pity on him and insisted I do the same despite being lied to for years was insane. I guarantee you at no point did anyone encourage him to be empathetic as to why I'd be fucking pissed about this.
Curious - if you care to say, did you marry him/how did it go? how long after that did you break up? And good for you for having sense to do it when you did. You dodged a big fat torpedo of a bullet. And I'm glad you know it.
 
It's also inaccurate to suggest women reading smut is equivalent to the porn that moids tend to indulge in, since they frequently have actual women being raped or otherwise abused in them. It's not even close.
Plus, at least with the written word, you can just replace the heroine with yourself since descriptions of them tend to be vague as hell.

And, to add further benefit of doubt, most of these heroines are between 20-35 years old. So it’s already better than most hentai, which features girls as young as ten in a disturbing lot of them.

I still get Scrote vibes from some smut; female authors of such things at least seem to have better morals when it comes to ages of characters than Scrote creators.
 
It is possible to get beyond that disempowered state and get beyond "why me?" or seeking someone just finally to be nice to you - but it takes work. Anyone looking for someone to save them is at the mercy of whoever turns up.
thank you for your entire reply and everything you're saying is spot on. i've mostly gotten over things and have forgiven the people but I came back home to visit family and all of these feelings are coming up again so posted my rant. you're definitely right it takes work. I'm much better than what I was even two years ago. but, i'm sure as many of you know, these feelings can and do come up so I needed somewhere safe to rant.
 
Curious - if you care to say, did you marry him/how did it go? how long after that did you break up? And good for you for having sense to do it when you did. You dodged a big fat torpedo of a bullet. And I'm glad you know it.
Thanks <3 Honestly I probably would've tried being a pick-me about it if it wasn't for the fact that I want a kid and would feel way too guilty/anxious subjecting them to an alcoholic/lying dad. We broke up pretty shortly after - only a few weeks. It sucks because we dated from 19-25ish, which are the easiest years to find a decent partner imo. Now I'm almost 30 and I feel the pressure to find someone in time to be able to have kids, but once you're out of undergrad most guys are like far too gone to be the sort of person you could responsibly raise a family with.
 
are we allowed to PL here? I need to get some shit off my chest...

I was abused by a MAN when I was young which has caused me severe psychological damage. My father left my family and has particularly treated me the worst. A man to whom I gave unwavering affection and love to broke my heart for an unknown reason. i'm trying my best at life (getting higher ed degrees, have an okay amount of money, living on my own, ect) but all i want is a man that will treat me right. why is this so hard? I hate that I love men and want them AND they treat me like shit. the worst part? if i try to talk about any of the three things above it somehow gets turned into my fault (you need to forgive your abuser and get over it, forgive and talk to your dad and get over it, get over the man who broke your heart, ect) none of these men have ever suffered consequences for what they did to me but it's up to ME to forgive and forget. where's my apology? I don't know what I'm doing wrong in life to make men be so fucked up towards me. thanks for reading my rant, ladies

tl;dr I don't hate men but I really hate men
You sound like where I'm at in life, from higher education to wanting a man to treat you right to trying to make money and stand on your own. I'm very sorry to hear about your past, and wish I could offer something more than empty condolences on the Internet.
I myself come from a broken family
, so all I can really say is that we tend to unknowingly pull people who're more than willing to take advantage of us. Something about the way we present ourselves must give off something akin to a pheromone to abusers. My last flirting situation was such- with an emotional abuser, I realized there's a pattern of a sort going on here, and stopped trying. I'm taking time off until this degree is out of the way, fixing myself as much as possible in the meanwhile. I've gone from being the heaviest I'd been since college to the top of my ribs hollowing out and being able to see their outline clearly in six months. Halved my proportions in half, feeding off of unsweetened yoghurt and 85% dark chocolate, now working on finding an exercise routine that works for me. It's all we can do, to hold on.

I'm not seeing anyone until I sort my shit out and get my money together. If at that point I am less than "ideal" because of age, big fucking deal. Currently celebrity-crushing on a small time British VA. It's been literal years since I've even felt this much affection lmfao.

Life's grim, but we're going to make it.
 
It's also inaccurate to suggest women reading smut is equivalent to the porn that moids tend to indulge in, since they frequently have actual women being raped or otherwise abused in them. It's not even close.
According to scrotes and their pick-me's a woman reading a novel about getting raped by a Werwolf (something that 1. she is unable to replicate in real life and 2. puts her in the victim role not the perpetrator) is totally the same as men watching real rapes of sex trafficked teenage girls on PornHub (which still hosts that kinds of material to this day despite the multiple lawsuits) which is something they can easily replicate in real life and they often do. Men and pick-me's say the real life impact of fictional words on paper and real violence towards real women and girls are "equally bad". 🙄🙄🙄
 
  1. There's no age to find love. Scrotes want to convince you you have to do it when young because young women are more vulnerable to their bullshit. It's better to find love when you're older because you are smarter and you've had experience, and if you're both a little less knock out gorgeous, good. You want to filter out retarded shallow scrotes who only like you because youre 22. Your dating pool is like a sewer when youre young anyway. Furthermore, a woman who takes care of herself with sunscreen and the gym and good life hygiene sorts of things like that will stay hot into her 60s. Never listen to moids and their bullshit about age.
  2. The fantasies that women have about being forcefully taken by an attractive man without any horrible face-pummeling violence isn't really rape, it's a fantasy that we're in control of. I know scrotes are retarded but imagine not being able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Doesn't matter how many ways women explain it, they want to believe what they want to believe (and pick-mes neeeed :( male validation and will tell them what they want to hear).
 
According to scrotes and their pick-me's a woman reading a novel about getting raped by a Werwolf (something that 1. she is unable to replicate in real life and 2. puts her in the victim role not the perpetrator) is totally the same as men watching real rapes of sex trafficked teenage girls on PornHub (which still hosts that kinds of material to this day despite the multiple lawsuits) which is something they can easily replicate in real life and they often do. Men and pick-me's say the real life impact of fictional words on paper and real violence towards real women and girls are "equally bad". 🙄🙄🙄
In the moid mind, this is actually true, because moids have drastically lower levels of empathy towards women than women display towards men. (I think the post with the sources is somewhere back in this thread. If not I will go find it)

You have to remember that when they see some lassie getting raped for money (or for free, amateurs do exist), often in pain, almost always with a large side of humiliation, they literally do not see what we see. What we see provokes distress and horror in us: we see one of our own group being clearly and seriously harmed. Our reaction of fear, disgust, horror is instinctive. That adrenaline kicks in because images of harm to someone you relate automatically gives that response. Our disgust response is nothing to do with our personal politics, whatever that is. It's a fucking survival instinct, hardwired. A woman is being harmed and we are going to be next. Women who didn't display that instinctive response didn't survive.

They don't have that response. There is a recent study that showed they literally don't respond to any behavioural indicator by women anywhere nearly as strongly as they respond to another man, and that their response to us is more on the level on which they respond to behavioural indicators by animals.

We see a rape. They see a meat packing plant. And they really enjoy sausages. Sure, the pigs are squealing, but hey, don't be a fgt, it's just how the world is.

Violent pornography to them is no more emotionally troubling than when they pulled the wings off flies as little boys. They don't have any empathic connection to what's happening. It's not happening to someone like them, or someone they can even imagine being like them.

They are not capable as a group of reacting to our emotions, our needs, our outright distress, they way we relate to other people. We aren't quite full people to moids. you have to keep that in mind when you deal with them: very, very few women they ever meet achieve the remarkable feat of personhood in their eyes. (This is also why almost all of them write female characters so very badly.)

This is actually the root of the moid/"male feminist" trope that "suddenly I understood women's feelings about sexual violence/sexual harassment/sexual discrimination et cetera once I had a daughter". It's because the daughter is the first female human the moid has ever had a social relationship with that didn't exist in his mind as purely an object to use to meet his needs. His mother exists purely from birth to meet his needs. Most moids never evolve the maternal relationship beyond that, and that's considered societally acceptable. Women-as-a-class are assessed purely by the interest of his penis. His partner is basically the same, except she's also expected to take on mommy's role of coddling the moid too. We have the word "fuckmommy" for a reason: it's what moids want.

Women are NPCs in the RPG of life: you interact with them to get something from them, and they are only supposed to give you what you want. They don't ask anything from you. Even a quest giver NPC gives a reward, right?

But the daughter? Most (non deviant) moids understand she is not a sexual outlet, and she's also incapable due to age of meeting his emotional and social needs. (This often reverses as she enters adulthood; do not let your father make a second wife out of you.) So he has to relate to this daughter as if she is an actual person, with goals and thoughts and drives of her own. He has to understand and accept for the first time that she has a complete interior life, like him, and not like other women, who are the NPCs of MoidWorld.

Suddenly he starts to understand the words other women have used, and that he dismissed, because a Real Person is saying them. Her tears when she is inevitably harassed on the train actually reach him and connect with him, because for the first time a Real Person has related this experience, and expressed distress, so for the first fucking time that experience and distress are understood by him to be real. This is a real thing. It really happens. And for the first time ever, the moid actually has a glimpse at the effect of male violence and the constant threat of male violence, which has always until now operated solely to his benefit.

The cognitive dissonance blows their fucking minds, and for this basic acquisition of human empathy, we are supposed to give them praise and cookies. And they get very uppity when we don't.
 
  1. There's no age to find love. Scrotes want to convince you you have to do it when young because young women are more vulnerable to their bullshit. It's better to find love when you're older because you are smarter and you've had experience, and if you're both a little less knock out gorgeous, good.
I think the difficulty with the age thing is, while this is definitely true, there is an age to have kids. That being said, you really can't force things like love and settling out of fear of getting too old does a disservice to yourself (because that's not love), to your partner (because it's honestly just cruel dating someone if you don't love them), and to your future kid. I'm gambling on egg-freezing as a result of this but there are risks associated with that as well.
I get your argument but given that it is a male, there is no chance it will have anything profound to say so mathematically speaking, you will be happier with a guy who does not talk much than one who talks too much
Are you telling me you aren't thrilled to hear a lengthy synopsis of half life 2 and critical analysis of John Wick?
It's also inaccurate to suggest women reading smut is equivalent to the porn that moids tend to indulge in, since they frequently have actual women being raped or otherwise abused in them. It's not even close.
I also think the representations of men in smut are usually way better than what they're like irl, while conversely, the representations of women in porn are far, far worse. Usually men in smut are some combination of rich/powerful/intelligent/funny, while most men lack all of these traits. Meanwhile women in porn are basically subhuman, while actual women are outcompeting men educationally, have better verbal IQ than men, and are measurably more moral.
 
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Are you telling me you aren't thrilled to hear a lengthy synopsis of half life 2 and critical analysis of John Wick?
We have a long standing equilibrium on the Talking Shite issue.

I will listen with interest, and conversationally engage, with whatever shite chat he feels the need to have me as an audience for, as long as I get to lie on his knee and he pets me gently. It is some sort of attention trade.

I cannot imagine actually being expected to sit and listen to shite man talk endlessly for no dopamine reward. I mean, often the chat is genuinely interesting to me on some level. But sometimes he is also relating the details of a day golfing and seriously I don't have the focus to be riveted by that.
 
We have a long standing equilibrium on the Talking Shite issue.

I will listen with interest, and conversationally engage, with whatever shite chat he feels the need to have me as an audience for, as long as I get to lie on his knee and he pets me gently. It is some sort of attention trade.

I cannot imagine actually being expected to sit and listen to shite man talk endlessly for no dopamine reward. I mean, often the chat is genuinely interesting to me on some level. But sometimes he is also relating the details of a day golfing and seriously I don't have the focus to be riveted by that.
I think the only men I've had feelings for were at least self aware enough to recognize when I was bored of a conversation and then self-regulate, accordingly. I can't tell if that's because there are some men out there with tolerable personalities or if I'm just particularly bad at feigning interest.

I have had men go on autistic rants about some random physics/cosmology shit which I do honestly find interesting, but don't have enough input on to actually say much to. They then infer I'm not interested and go "omg am I boring you??" and get all openly self conscious, but in a way that sort of paints me into a corner into either indulging them in ways that would undermine my basic dignity (think "nooooooo poor baby you're sooooo interesting and cooool") or into not placating them and then making it seem like I genuinely wasn't interested in the conversation.
 
I have had men go on autistic rants about some random physics/cosmology shit which I do honestly find interesting, but don't have enough input on to actually say much to.
Sorry if this isn't man-hatey enough but since we're talking about dating these scumfucks, I have to say, if a man actually knows what he's talking about and it's his passion and he's a hard-working dude in this field and makes plenty of money in it, I rather enjoy listening to his sperging and asking a bunch of questions. If I'm bored it's because I don't like him and he's annoying and needs to shut up. But if he's that lottery ticket win moid who's not a complete ass and a know-it-all about everything, but he focuses on his one autistic interest, that's hot.
 
Sorry if this isn't man-hatey enough but since we're talking about dating these scumfucks, I have to say, if a man actually knows what he's talking about and it's his passion and he's a hard-working dude in this field and makes plenty of money in it, I rather enjoy listening to his sperging and asking a bunch of questions. If I'm bored it's because I don't like him and he's annoying and needs to shut up. But if he's that lottery ticket win moid who's not a complete ass and a know-it-all about everything, but he focuses on his one autistic interest, that's hot.
We share the autistic special interests of being indie wankers and also the warhams. We used to run a semi popular music blog together, new music reviews, gig reviews. Thankfully it has been purged from the internet before our children were old enough to find it. No one wants to realise their parents were once young and had other interests in life.

Plastic soldiers can be assembled and painted in companionable silence, thankfully. Neither of us actually likes to talk all the time. Finding someone who understands that and leans in to it is very important if you are a person who just needs everyone to STFU for a while.

I know a lot of folk say "it doesn't matter if you don't have interests in common" but honestly, I feel like it does. Over many years, you are going to run out of NEW and EXCITING material for conversation; at least have some old reliables to fall back on other than the general domestic business.

But then I married someone who took me to a football match to shout invective at a referee for 90 minutes as a first date. If like us, you are fundamentally not cool, you need to partner up with someone who is not cool in complementary ways.

Also, make bloody sure you support the same team.
 
"it doesn't matter if you don't have interests in common" but honestly, I feel like it does.
I 100% agree and it genuinely shocks me how many people in relationships think otherwise. Like, I think, for everyone, you tend to like and respect people who share your perspective on things or tastes, so this basically implies that these people don't like or respect their partners - they use them for warm bodies, effectively. I also know for a fact that everyone IRL who's said this to me has a partner who does think they share interests in common with the other, which feels even more depressing; it sounds like the latter love the former, but not vice versa.
 
The last time I was listening, there was one of their guys -whose name I don't remember- talking about vegetarianism and bugs being pushed into Western cuisine. Red meat came up in conversation (not hunting for it or anything like that. Simply eating steak, meatballs, etc.) and this man genuinely, wholeheartedly started to talk about eating pre-cut, pre-cleaned grocery store steak as "exciting and masculine because you get to tear it apart (?), and because you're consuming the flesh of a nutritious animal (?)" and I started to laugh so hard I actually had to sit down for a minute.
Hadn't I know this man is bullshitting, this would send me into slight depression. Other people have hard feelings over eating hamburgers and I dont? Why can't I and is it because I am not a man? Was I stuffing my face wrong the entire time? For literal decades? So many wasted years.
 
The last time I was listening, there was one of their guys -whose name I don't remember- talking about vegetarianism and bugs being pushed into Western cuisine. Red meat came up in conversation (not hunting for it or anything like that. Simply eating steak, meatballs, etc.) and this man genuinely, wholeheartedly started to talk about eating pre-cut, pre-cleaned grocery store steak as "exciting and masculine because you get to tear it apart (?), and because you're consuming the flesh of a nutritious animal (?)" and I started to laugh so hard I actually had to sit down for a minute. I never watched anything from them or from Sargon ever again.

Sargon is such an embarrassing fucking bellend, I'm amazed you could put up with him, even as background noise, I find him genuinely insufferable.

The whole LARPy macho 'Just like my caveman ancestors!" thing men have surrounding meat is so fucking dumb.

You didn't chase an aurochs down over the steppe and kill it with a spear. You bought a frozen steak from Asda, Carl.
 
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My attempt at dating today..

Matched with a guy this morning and had a pretty decent, casual and natural conversation for once. We shared similar perspectives and he seemed to have some sort of emotional intelligence. After an hour or two of chatting online, I made the mistake of offering to go on a date this afternoon. Women, in reality, should never plan a date with a man in the beginning. The man should present the idea and desire because they are more likely to keep the date.

Originally he said he would message me after a meeting he had at 4pm. By 5:15 he sent a message saying his brothers car broke down. By this time, I was already no longer interested before he even messaged me but I felt a bit trapped by this excuse - if it was true, shit happens and I can't really hold it against him. So I said that's a bummer, thanks for letting me know. He follows up that he would really like to hang out soon. I say I'm a bit burnt from the effort I've already put forth in planning the first date (as I also offered an activity - yet another one of my mistakes) so the ball is in his court. He says that's fair and says we could still hang out tonight. I say I have no interest in hanging out after dark so if he wanted to do that in the next three hours we could but otherwise maybe tomorrow. He says he doesn't want to waste anymore of my time (just the schedule rearranging was more than enough time wasted for me) so we can hang out tomorrow. I say okay yeah, I'm free tomorrow. Silence. I reluctantly ask so what time tomorrow? He comments, "I like a girl who knows what she wants" (an appointment time. That's what I want. A fucking time of our meeting.) and offers around noon. I say okay, what did you have in mind? "Uh good question, You drink coffee or anything? Maybe go for a little nature walk."

So essentially had I not forced him to reschedule a date, I'd get to sit around all day tomorrow waiting for a text when he decides he wants to go buy a coffee for himself and have some company while doing it.

I will never set up a date with a man again. I will never offer ideas for activities, I will never ask when they are free, I will never put forth any amount of effort for a man until he does it first ten fold. I really don't care if the car excuse was true or not as he had all the opportunity to make it up by offering the means to reschedule and even offering to buy me something for already wasting my time. Instead, I have to drag it out bit by bit from someone I didn't even fucking approach to begin with.
 
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