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Yeah I have no issues with med. Any time I die and am not locked somewhere unreachable, gibbed, or spaced they do a pretty good job.

The single pair of insuls in engi in this map is misery though. If some dingus grabs them you're hooped for setting up solars.
 
Honestly make it like mining equipment and have the engi lockers contain insuls. That way if you have like 5 engis the station isn't flooded with them. I think the fact they're scarce is good, but 1 pair is too few. Or just have the engi hardsuits be insulated. Really doesn't make sense that you need both the engi hardsuits AND insuls.
 
We took the fucking piano to the pod.
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That's an awfully long post for being so wrong. I'm convinced you haven't played medbay once on kiwi station. It's the only department on the server that is competent.

Fuck cloning.

Medbay is fun right now because everyone works as a team, and surgery is a good system, and chemicals are still extremely good. Just not when they are dead. If you are going to add back in cloning just remove medbay because there would be no point. Fuck it the server would be better without cryotubes too.

Medbay is the only department with a consistent player base, just leave it alone, and don't fuck it up cuz this guy is salty no-one wants to work to revive him cuz he's a dick.
Long post regarding three+ major fuckups (Virology nuke, Cloning nuke, oranges existing), cloning was only a part of it and you haven't addressed in any way all the parts of where changing cloning made the game worse for everyone else, breaks major mechanics, etc..
While we're sharing baseless speculation ("People just don't want to revive you, it's not that you've spent several rounds watching medbay struggle to administer 1 single patch, replace an organ, and defib!") I'm pretty sure you've never played on a server with cloning, because if you had, it would be obvious how much nicer it is to be able to use surgery for surgery things and keep everyone and their mother out of medbay and in the station, playing the game. It might at least explain why new players joining Kiwi seem to think that having a single dangerous antagonist be the death knell for 2/3rds of the station is normal- because competent is a "stretch," to say the least.
Next time I watch the same bloody docs try to stasis bodies and spend twelve minutes scrambling for pills because they didn't stack treatments, make bottles, or fill the vendors, I aught to record it and set it to yakety sax for you. Some of them, even the CMOs, still have to consult the machines for surgery order. It's a mess.
Granted, it's not even medbay's fault medicine can be so involved. /tg/ has had an open conspiracy for roughly five years to gum down the game in every way possible until medium+ roleplay with heavy moderation is the only viable way to play the game, because everything else leads to dead shifts. It's the coderbus' boilerplate achievement. Kiwistation's playerbase is clearly in the vein of old /tg/, so obviously, old /tg/ features would fit better. God bless.
Finally, you may have missed the bit where I praised chemicals actually taking some thought now, though toxin damage boiling down to "just use penta lol" is really disappointing, and I agree with the notion of nuking cryotubes. Cryotubes have always been more of a problem and a crutch than sleepers or cloning, since they take people out of the game for an extended period of time to handle doctoral inadequacy, but the payoff is "you regenerated a bit," not re-entering the game entirely, like Cloning.

Friendly reminder that cloning still exists.
Yes, yes, pods, because Botany should be Medbay and Medbay should be Botany.
It's so easy, why don't you just set up pods every round?
In which case there was no reason to gut Cloning,
It takes more effort, Cloning should be harder to get, so fast antags can make more of a splash
In which case there was no reason to remove Cloning entirely, and it should have been made into tech tree recipes (as it already was). Locking cloning behind tech would be cool (/tg/ has been steadily gutting any and all science-medicine cross collaboration, making cloning T3-T4 tech would be fun) but just crimping replica pods and turning everyone into pod people is retarded. Mechanically, it works, and for some of the more intense rounds it's an option.
Reminder: Cloning was removed entirely. I'm advocating a reversal of that particular change, not re-integrating cloning into the map. That would take some effort and shuffling things around, and I don't think that's as necessary. Giving Medicine a reason to bully Science into making and upgrading some hardware for them means that, at least in rounds going 40 or so minutes, Medbay will finally have access to the tools to get the job done in major catastrophes, which by that point (should) be piling up.
"but if it's so much harder to make than pods why bother?" which is why Cloning doesn't actually "still exist." Unlike pods, you don't need a body to clone people. You just need them to get scanned, which is an excellent way to protect high profile personnel and encourage adventurous behavior. Miners, engis on expeditions, the old gateway and boss fights, these are dangerous things that are fun to do but that can cripple a station now. With Cloning, you just watch the monitors for any of them to die, and clone them back. Their shit is gone, but this is literally the reason the rec room just has a ton of jumpsuits and backpacks lying around, and it's well over half of the HoP's job. Clone, vet, ID, get back into the fight. "Why do the HoPs keep giving out AA?" It's not like they have anything else to do. It's a vestigial organ, because gutting cloning entirely wasn't clever or thorough. It was a hackjob forced through on /tg/ against popular support and despite popular outcry.
Now, yes, yes, if you're new to the game, cloning IS very potent. It's still very important in cases where you have lots of people going tits up- spend twenty minutes watching "competent" docs trying to piecemeal your blown up corpse, or have the foresight to scan yourself first and be back in the game within a few minutes. Even if you gib, you can be brought back, so long as that record is there. There are tons of checks and balances to this potency, which already exist in the game, because (again) it was designed with cloning in mind for 9+ years.
 
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The biggest current shortcoming of kiwistation medbay is medical not coordinating at all with chem. I think this is mainly because chemist is a shitter role a lot of people take to greytide with bombs and poison, so most doctor mains are used to getting no help whatsoever from them, don't bother asking, and often don't even bother user chems a helpful chemist has made, and therefore most chemist mains are used to absolutely nothing being expected of them and might not even know what they could be making to be helpful.

Otherwise I think kiwi medbay is generally the consistently best-run department.
 
Medbay is much like atmos. When it's being done correctly you don't even think about it. When it's done badly you end up lying facedown in a puddle of vomit as all your organs fail and you bleed out from your eyes with the only help being the clown epipenning you fifty times in a row and punching you because he doesn't know about using help intent to give mouth to mouth.

Cloning was a better feature in terms of keeping the game going. Objectively it was; it had you back on your feet within minutes and from anywhere on the map with no real downsides. It was also kinda lazy but was a definite anti frustration feature. Nothing makes you want to pull your own eyes out than medical fucking around, because the longer you're left the lower and lower the chance of getting back into the round is. It's fucking infuriating, even a complete tard can run cloning effectively.

If there's no plan to add cloning back via research then can botany at least get the DNA machine back, or at the very least stop with the mutagen delay. You can say 'pods' all you want, but current botany is like taking your balls and slapping them against a rotary fan in terms of enjoyability when compared to the older versions. Hell even pre DNA machine botany was better than this bull. Somethings gotta give, because things like cloning and pods are anti frustration features that make it infinitely less unpleasant to actually play the game.

EDIT: Or if no code changes are made then at least change the rules so that people can't just shit up rounds and attack people, or break into shit. Current medicine is made for slower, RP heavier rounds, enforce that. I'm fine with either one to be honest.
 
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I pissed around some more with the transport tubes. It seems the pod spawns below the tube, not in it. I can't for the life of me figure out how to either attach the pod to the tubes.
 
If there's no plan to add cloning back via research then can botany at least get the DNA machine back, or at the very least stop with the mutagen delay. You can say 'pods' all you want, but current botany is like taking your balls and slapping them against a rotary fan in terms of enjoyability when compared to the older versions. Hell even pre DNA machine botany was better than this bull. Somethings gotta give, because things like cloning and pods are anti frustration features that make it infinitely less unpleasant to actually play the game.

I haven't played older versions of the game with the DNA machine, but I feel pretty comfortable with my understanding of how botany is at the moment. Firstly, mutagen is only really used now if you're trying to get kudzu, it's been pretty much replaced by L4Zed.

Secondly, as far as ways to make botany less tedious, I put two idea's forth in a previous comment: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/kiwi-station-13-suggestion-box.79292/page-5#post-7818867

The main problem I see with botany is how tedious it is to wait and wait and wait for RNG dependent events, only to wait wait wait longer when the RNG doesn't go your way. There is a tool that assists with this, the Floral Somatoray and Botanogenetic Shears. The problem is how long it can take to get it. At the beginning of every round I beg the AI/RD/anyone in Sci to add them to the queue and pray that no one takes it off. Then I have to hope that we have shaft miners who will get uranium in a timely manner. It can take 30 - 50 minutes to actually obtain one, and by then the time has already been spent. It is incredibly tedious. My recommendation was to add alternate ways to obtain these earlier, such as ordering them from the cargo catalogue, or maybe making them purchasable from the biogenorator(perhaps at a high biomass cost).

Those two tools were created to make up for the removal of the DNA machine, but because of how late in the round you get them(IF EVER) it is unreasonable to plan what you make around them being available, thus making them pointless the vast majority of them time which is crippling for any complex plants you try to put together.

The other idea I had in the previous comment about having the Botanogenetic Shears create a graft containing the removed trait would also be super useful, but would also probably require more coding to implement. It would be nice if it was added as well, but not something I would consider as vital.
 
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Those two tools were created to make up for the removal of the DNA machine, but because of how late in the round you get them(IF EVER) it is unreasonable to plan what you make around them being available, thus making them pointless the vast majority of them time which is crippling for any complex plants you try to put together.
Correction: Somatoray was originally a part of old botany and was meant as an alternative to mutagen, but noone ever saw any used because back then because it needed a recharger and had a longer click cooldown than mutagen.
 
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I was originally on the fence about it, but your essay won me over. I agree, we should try to bring cloning back as a late-game tech; It's a good compromise between opposing views on the subject, and will let us carefully introduce it back to see what consequences - if any - it'll cause.
 
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