Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts
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CIA Nigger
Not a fed, just a random object on the street.
Retired Staff
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 15, 2017
I think worth mentioning here is the Leah Rowe saga (which I would have made a post for if I had an account when it happened. TL;dr, the developer for Libreboot (a project for replacing the BIOS with a coreboot distro free of any sort of binary blobs) troons out, and at first everything seems fine. Then a transgender sysadmin was fired from the FSF. Leah Rowe responded with a massive nuclear grade chimpout on mailing lists (think Alex Mauer style), made the website a screechfest at Richard Stallman complete with a page whining about Stallman, and threw a fit for a while before calming down and giving up the project.
CIA Nigger
Not a fed, just a random object on the street.
Retired Staff
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 15, 2017
Richard Stallman does, and to be fair there's been a good reason for caring. Intel ME and BIOS level attacks have been a new thing lately, and business laptop vendors are having to put out updates for 5-6 year old old laptops to patch security flaws. These aren't just schizophrenic ramblings either, this has happened in the real world.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
Too bad the creator decided trooning the fuck out would be a better idea than finishing a project. I guess finishing a project is just too cisnormative.
CIA Nigger
Not a fed, just a random object on the street.
Retired Staff
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 15, 2017
It got finished, but only for some old ass computers, with the newest ones being some AMD Bulldozer boards. He didn't do a lot of the porting work to the newer systems, the coreboot people and some contractors like Raptor Engineering did.
One of the devs issued a statement about this too calling out Leah.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2017
IIRC one of the issues is that any Intel processor newer than Core Duo and any AMD processor newer than Bulldozer has a management engine that basically serves as a hardware backdoor, if given that ability by nefarious microcode or incompetence. Much more likely the latter.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
Isaac Schlueter twitter cringe dump, this is 4 days. It's like this all the time. Go check out the CEO of the NPM: https://twitter.com/izs
Arthur Chu lowcow crossover
This fucking thread, I didn't even read, but this is clearly the twitter account of a crazy person, note the scrollbar: https://archive.fo/4gjDX
Arthur Chu lowcow crossover
This fucking thread, I didn't even read, but this is clearly the twitter account of a crazy person, note the scrollbar: https://archive.fo/4gjDX
L
LH 909
Guest
kiwifarms.net
JavaScript seems to be a magnet for this shit. My guess is because it’s the quickest way into programming and front end work is still in high demand. Basically the perfect place to fulfill your diversity quota.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2016
Something about web shit, I guess because SJWs need attention to live and you can only get that through the internet (at least with their personalities anyway, IRL social interactions just get them banned for screeching like chimps). It's different from Python which is another easy language exclusively used by small children instead of SJWs.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
Linus Torvalds absolutely brutalizes an Intel Engineer on the mailing list: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/04628.html (https://archive.fo/GJaMD)
From: Linus Torvalds
Date: Sun Jan 21 2018 - 16:36:05 EST
> On Sun, 2018-01-21 at 11:34 -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>> All of this is pure garbage.
>>
>> Is Intel really planning on making this shit architectural? Has
>> anybody talked to them and told them they are f*cking insane?
>>
>> Please, any Intel engineers here - talk to your managers.
>
> If the alternative was a two-decade product recall and giving everyone
> free CPUs, I'm not sure it was entirely insane.
You seem to have bought into the cool-aid. Please add a healthy dose
of critical thinking. Because this isn't the kind of cool-aid that
makes for a fun trip with pretty pictures. This is the kind that melts
your brain.
> Certainly it's a nasty hack, but hey â the world was on fire and in the
> end we didn't have to just turn the datacentres off and go back to goat
> farming, so it's not all bad.
It's not that it's a nasty hack. It's much worse than that.
> As a hack for existing CPUs, it's just about tolerable â as long as it
> can die entirely by the next generation.
That's part of the big problem here. The speculation control cpuid
stuff shows that Intel actually seems to plan on doing the right thing
for meltdown (the main question being _when_). Which is not a huge
surprise, since it should be easy to fix, and it's a really honking
big hole to drive through. Not doing the right thing for meltdown
would be completely unacceptable.
So the IBRS garbage implies that Intel is _not_ planning on doing the
right thing for the indirect branch speculation.
Honestly, that's completely unacceptable too.
> So the part is I think is odd is the IBRS_ALL feature, where a future
> CPU will advertise "I am able to be not broken" and then you have to
> set the IBRS bit once at boot time to *ask* it not to be broken. That
> part is weird, because it ought to have been treated like the RDCL_NO
> bit â just "you don't have to worry any more, it got better".
It's not "weird" at all. It's very much part of the whole "this is
complete garbage" issue.
The whole IBRS_ALL feature to me very clearly says "Intel is not
serious about this, we'll have a ugly hack that will be so expensive
that we don't want to enable it by default, because that would look
bad in benchmarks".
So instead they try to push the garbage down to us. And they are doing
it entirely wrong, even from a technical standpoint.
I'm sure there is some lawyer there who says "we'll have to go through
motions to protect against a lawsuit". But legal reasons do not make
for good technology, or good patches that I should apply.
> We do need the IBPB feature to complete the protection that retpoline
> gives us â it's that or rebuild all of userspace with retpoline.
BULLSHIT.
Have you _looked_ at the patches you are talking about? You should
have - several of them bear your name.
The patches do things like add the garbage MSR writes to the kernel
entry/exit points. That's insane. That says "we're trying to protect
the kernel". We already have retpoline there, with less overhead.
So somebody isn't telling the truth here. Somebody is pushing complete
garbage for unclear reasons. Sorry for having to point that out.
If this was about flushing the BTB at actual context switches between
different users, I'd believe you. But that's not at all what the
patches do.
As it is, the patches are COMPLETE AND UTTER GARBAGE.
They do literally insane things. They do things that do not make
sense. That makes all your arguments questionable and suspicious. The
patches do things that are not sane.
WHAT THE F*CK IS GOING ON?
And that's actually ignoring the much _worse_ issue, namely that the
whole hardware interface is literally mis-designed by morons.
It's mis-designed for two major reasons:
- the "the interface implies Intel will never fix it" reason.
See the difference between IBRS_ALL and RDCL_NO. One implies Intel
will fix something. The other does not.
Do you really think that is acceptable?
- the "there is no performance indicator".
The whole point of having cpuid and flags from the
microarchitecture is that we can use those to make decisions.
But since we already know that the IBRS overhead is <i>huge</i> on
existing hardware, all those hardware capability bits are just
complete and utter garbage. Nobody sane will use them, since the cost
is too damn high. So you end up having to look at "which CPU stepping
is this" anyway.
I think we need something better than this garbage.
Linus
Date: Sun Jan 21 2018 - 16:36:05 EST
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- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> On Sun, 2018-01-21 at 11:34 -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>> All of this is pure garbage.
>>
>> Is Intel really planning on making this shit architectural? Has
>> anybody talked to them and told them they are f*cking insane?
>>
>> Please, any Intel engineers here - talk to your managers.
>
> If the alternative was a two-decade product recall and giving everyone
> free CPUs, I'm not sure it was entirely insane.
You seem to have bought into the cool-aid. Please add a healthy dose
of critical thinking. Because this isn't the kind of cool-aid that
makes for a fun trip with pretty pictures. This is the kind that melts
your brain.
> Certainly it's a nasty hack, but hey â the world was on fire and in the
> end we didn't have to just turn the datacentres off and go back to goat
> farming, so it's not all bad.
It's not that it's a nasty hack. It's much worse than that.
> As a hack for existing CPUs, it's just about tolerable â as long as it
> can die entirely by the next generation.
That's part of the big problem here. The speculation control cpuid
stuff shows that Intel actually seems to plan on doing the right thing
for meltdown (the main question being _when_). Which is not a huge
surprise, since it should be easy to fix, and it's a really honking
big hole to drive through. Not doing the right thing for meltdown
would be completely unacceptable.
So the IBRS garbage implies that Intel is _not_ planning on doing the
right thing for the indirect branch speculation.
Honestly, that's completely unacceptable too.
> So the part is I think is odd is the IBRS_ALL feature, where a future
> CPU will advertise "I am able to be not broken" and then you have to
> set the IBRS bit once at boot time to *ask* it not to be broken. That
> part is weird, because it ought to have been treated like the RDCL_NO
> bit â just "you don't have to worry any more, it got better".
It's not "weird" at all. It's very much part of the whole "this is
complete garbage" issue.
The whole IBRS_ALL feature to me very clearly says "Intel is not
serious about this, we'll have a ugly hack that will be so expensive
that we don't want to enable it by default, because that would look
bad in benchmarks".
So instead they try to push the garbage down to us. And they are doing
it entirely wrong, even from a technical standpoint.
I'm sure there is some lawyer there who says "we'll have to go through
motions to protect against a lawsuit". But legal reasons do not make
for good technology, or good patches that I should apply.
> We do need the IBPB feature to complete the protection that retpoline
> gives us â it's that or rebuild all of userspace with retpoline.
BULLSHIT.
Have you _looked_ at the patches you are talking about? You should
have - several of them bear your name.
The patches do things like add the garbage MSR writes to the kernel
entry/exit points. That's insane. That says "we're trying to protect
the kernel". We already have retpoline there, with less overhead.
So somebody isn't telling the truth here. Somebody is pushing complete
garbage for unclear reasons. Sorry for having to point that out.
If this was about flushing the BTB at actual context switches between
different users, I'd believe you. But that's not at all what the
patches do.
As it is, the patches are COMPLETE AND UTTER GARBAGE.
They do literally insane things. They do things that do not make
sense. That makes all your arguments questionable and suspicious. The
patches do things that are not sane.
WHAT THE F*CK IS GOING ON?
And that's actually ignoring the much _worse_ issue, namely that the
whole hardware interface is literally mis-designed by morons.
It's mis-designed for two major reasons:
- the "the interface implies Intel will never fix it" reason.
See the difference between IBRS_ALL and RDCL_NO. One implies Intel
will fix something. The other does not.
Do you really think that is acceptable?
- the "there is no performance indicator".
The whole point of having cpuid and flags from the
microarchitecture is that we can use those to make decisions.
But since we already know that the IBRS overhead is <i>huge</i> on
existing hardware, all those hardware capability bits are just
complete and utter garbage. Nobody sane will use them, since the cost
is too damn high. So you end up having to look at "which CPU stepping
is this" anyway.
I think we need something better than this garbage.
Linus
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
Apparently it's roast GNOME week something.
First there was this thing where Slashdot roasted them for their typical arrogance UX bullshit: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/01/27/2245240/should-apps-replace-title-bars-with-header-bars (https://archive.fo/StOeT)
Supposedly this LvS guy is a GNOME developer and he's actively flipping out on reddit right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/7tcudz/server_side_decorations_and_wayland/ (https://archive.fo/xElt7)
https://www.reddit.com/user/LvS/comments/ (https://archive.fo/ZIUny)
Another GNOME developer getting butthurt today over a thread about the performance of KDE: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/7tmrce/plasma_is_resource_intensive_spoiler_not_really/ (https://archive.fo/MdQaJ)
/g/ thread: https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/64522547 (https://archive.fo/mChet)
It might be a good time to remind people of the "File Picker meme" where GNOME has been unable to implement meaningful thumbnail display in their file picker for like 10 years. Including rejecting a functional patch that people actively use because some ecosystem bullshit: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/File_Picker_meme
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141154& (https://archive.fo/3F7Lg)
Also the time a GNOME developer went and told some software developer to change his software to conform to GNOME3's new way of doing something instead of supporting everything else: https://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/3685 (https://archive.fo/H1qER)
For the record I believe QT has won out over GTK.
First there was this thing where Slashdot roasted them for their typical arrogance UX bullshit: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/01/27/2245240/should-apps-replace-title-bars-with-header-bars (https://archive.fo/StOeT)
Supposedly this LvS guy is a GNOME developer and he's actively flipping out on reddit right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/7tcudz/server_side_decorations_and_wayland/ (https://archive.fo/xElt7)
https://www.reddit.com/user/LvS/comments/ (https://archive.fo/ZIUny)
Another GNOME developer getting butthurt today over a thread about the performance of KDE: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/7tmrce/plasma_is_resource_intensive_spoiler_not_really/ (https://archive.fo/MdQaJ)
/g/ thread: https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/64522547 (https://archive.fo/mChet)
It might be a good time to remind people of the "File Picker meme" where GNOME has been unable to implement meaningful thumbnail display in their file picker for like 10 years. Including rejecting a functional patch that people actively use because some ecosystem bullshit: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/File_Picker_meme
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141154& (https://archive.fo/3F7Lg)
Also the time a GNOME developer went and told some software developer to change his software to conform to GNOME3's new way of doing something instead of supporting everything else: https://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/3685 (https://archive.fo/H1qER)
For the record I believe QT has won out over GTK.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
professional grade autism
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
Some nerd on /g/ is trying to start GNOMEGate, perhaps hitting the lowest-tier bar of *Gate yet. They're stock piling bad press and art (see example): https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/64527834 (https://archive.fo/Uk2fk)
Also that time GNOME was short on cash after donating a bunch of money to mah womyns: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTY2Mjc (https://archive.fo/dgd40)
This is some 8ch /GAMERGATE/-tier shit
Also that time GNOME was short on cash after donating a bunch of money to mah womyns: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTY2Mjc (https://archive.fo/dgd40)
The GNOME Foundation Is Running Short On Money
Written by Michael Larabel in GNOME on 13 April 2014 at 08:43 AM EDT. 248 Comments
While GNOME has been riding high lately with driving the development of its Wayland-based compositor and being the first major desktop getting there natively for most of its applications, and the overall work on the recent GNOME 3.12 release being fairly exciting, on the foundation side they are running into a budget shortfall and funds are becoming very tight within the GNOME Foundation.
The GNOME Foundation has run into cash flow problems and as a result is freezing non-essential expenses. The GNOME Foundation has eliminated their cash reserves leading to this dire situation, but should be recoverable in the months ahead. The GNOME Foundation got into this situation through its Outreach Program for Women (OPW) and managing the program (and funds) for a number of other participating organizations. The GNOME Foundation staff and board fell behind in their processes with being overwhelmed by administering OPW. GNOME's Outreach Program for Women is explained as "The Outreach Program for Women (OPW) helps women (cis and trans) and genderqueer get involved in free and open source software." They've had around 30 interns for their most recent cycle.
Making matters worse, in their 2014 budget they made assumptions based upon the previous year's incomes and expenditures, which were more optimistic. There's also the matter of payments from GNOME sponsors and others owing the GNOME Foundation money being rather fluid or coming in late.
For rectifying this budget shortfall, the GNOME Foundation is going through with its invoicing of conference sponsors, more pro-actively following up on unpaid invoices, better invoicing OPW sponsoring, increasing their general fundraising efforts, and taking other efforts.
As a major step in acknowledging and correcting the problem, the GNOME Foundation voted last week to "freeze Foundation spending which is not essential to the running of the Foundation. By keeping expenditures to a minimum while some delayed revenue is regained, the board aims to have things back to normal within a few months."
More details can be found on the GNOME Wiki. Those wishing to support the GNOME Foundation can figure out various donation means by becoming a friend of GNOME.
Written by Michael Larabel in GNOME on 13 April 2014 at 08:43 AM EDT. 248 Comments
While GNOME has been riding high lately with driving the development of its Wayland-based compositor and being the first major desktop getting there natively for most of its applications, and the overall work on the recent GNOME 3.12 release being fairly exciting, on the foundation side they are running into a budget shortfall and funds are becoming very tight within the GNOME Foundation.
The GNOME Foundation has run into cash flow problems and as a result is freezing non-essential expenses. The GNOME Foundation has eliminated their cash reserves leading to this dire situation, but should be recoverable in the months ahead. The GNOME Foundation got into this situation through its Outreach Program for Women (OPW) and managing the program (and funds) for a number of other participating organizations. The GNOME Foundation staff and board fell behind in their processes with being overwhelmed by administering OPW. GNOME's Outreach Program for Women is explained as "The Outreach Program for Women (OPW) helps women (cis and trans) and genderqueer get involved in free and open source software." They've had around 30 interns for their most recent cycle.
Making matters worse, in their 2014 budget they made assumptions based upon the previous year's incomes and expenditures, which were more optimistic. There's also the matter of payments from GNOME sponsors and others owing the GNOME Foundation money being rather fluid or coming in late.
For rectifying this budget shortfall, the GNOME Foundation is going through with its invoicing of conference sponsors, more pro-actively following up on unpaid invoices, better invoicing OPW sponsoring, increasing their general fundraising efforts, and taking other efforts.
As a major step in acknowledging and correcting the problem, the GNOME Foundation voted last week to "freeze Foundation spending which is not essential to the running of the Foundation. By keeping expenditures to a minimum while some delayed revenue is regained, the board aims to have things back to normal within a few months."
More details can be found on the GNOME Wiki. Those wishing to support the GNOME Foundation can figure out various donation means by becoming a friend of GNOME.
This is some 8ch /GAMERGATE/-tier shit
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
How can a desktop environment cause this much drama?Some nerd on /g/ is trying to start GNOMEGate, perhaps hitting the lowest-tier bar of *Gate yet. They're stock piling bad press and art (see example): https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/64527834 (https://archive.fo/Uk2fk)
View attachment 371510
Also that time GNOME was short on cash after donating a bunch of money to mah womyns: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTY2Mjc (https://archive.fo/dgd40)
The GNOME Foundation Is Running Short On Money
Written by Michael Larabel in GNOME on 13 April 2014 at 08:43 AM EDT. 248 Comments
While GNOME has been riding high lately with driving the development of its Wayland-based compositor and being the first major desktop getting there natively for most of its applications, and the overall work on the recent GNOME 3.12 release being fairly exciting, on the foundation side they are running into a budget shortfall and funds are becoming very tight within the GNOME Foundation.
The GNOME Foundation has run into cash flow problems and as a result is freezing non-essential expenses. The GNOME Foundation has eliminated their cash reserves leading to this dire situation, but should be recoverable in the months ahead. The GNOME Foundation got into this situation through its Outreach Program for Women (OPW) and managing the program (and funds) for a number of other participating organizations. The GNOME Foundation staff and board fell behind in their processes with being overwhelmed by administering OPW. GNOME's Outreach Program for Women is explained as "The Outreach Program for Women (OPW) helps women (cis and trans) and genderqueer get involved in free and open source software." They've had around 30 interns for their most recent cycle.
Making matters worse, in their 2014 budget they made assumptions based upon the previous year's incomes and expenditures, which were more optimistic. There's also the matter of payments from GNOME sponsors and others owing the GNOME Foundation money being rather fluid or coming in late.
For rectifying this budget shortfall, the GNOME Foundation is going through with its invoicing of conference sponsors, more pro-actively following up on unpaid invoices, better invoicing OPW sponsoring, increasing their general fundraising efforts, and taking other efforts.
As a major step in acknowledging and correcting the problem, the GNOME Foundation voted last week to "freeze Foundation spending which is not essential to the running of the Foundation. By keeping expenditures to a minimum while some delayed revenue is regained, the board aims to have things back to normal within a few months."
More details can be found on the GNOME Wiki. Those wishing to support the GNOME Foundation can figure out various donation means by becoming a friend of GNOME.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
Personally, GNOME annoys me because they force shit onto the rest of the ecosystem. People who want nothing to do with GNOME are exposed to their bullshit via GTK and things like the filepicker. Since Red Hat is tied into GNOME/GTK ecosystem they can force other parts of the ecosystem to adapt to them, while ignoring/inconveniencing others. This is the same with systemd and PulseAudio. The recent thing with Wayland/CSD could be hugely impactful going into the future since that is supposed to replace Xorg at some point.
It's really just a combination of arrogance and being forced to deal with their bullshit if you want to go near GTK-based applications that have nothing to do with GNOME. QT has won plainly on every other platform but GTK is still popular in the Linux ecosystem due to historical licensing and it being viewed as the "default" due to support from Ubuntu and Red Hat, which are the companies that often fund these projects or employ the primary developers.
Seriously, over 10 years for muh stupid fucking thumbnails while they've jerked off on their UX philosophy design doc so much it's caked over twice.
Last edited:
Branchland Count
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2017
People love to follow drama, but few people actually use Gnome, and basically no enthusiasts do. It's only notable as one of the two big DEs because its GUI toolkit, GTK, is fairly ubiquitous.
This is a stupid little spark that everyone will have forgotten about in a couple of weeks, it's absolutely nothing compared to the still-raging autism bushfire that is Systemd.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2017
Lunduke has begun making literal alien/paranormal videos, Luke Smith in the comments.
