Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[Funny Internet Racist]

Stallman just seems like a mega-autist who has no idea how to express himself in a way that doesn't sound weird, and no one going after him seems to be doing it in good faith. Everyone seems to either be power hungry or politically invested in his removal. He made & kept the FSF together, and no one else in it is at all trustworthy enough to run it well.

I have it on good authority that Stallman has nasal sex with dead plants.

 

[Lieutenant Rasczak]

People will always wonder why proprietary software a lot of the time wins the day. Shit like this is why, activists will inevitably fuck shit up and throw out the core principle of something like Open Source because of petty grievances. With proprietary software, there is at the very least the illusion of professionalism and the profit motive keeping them from going full retard in a lot of cases despite of the spyware or other bullshit that comes with their programs.

There's a reason why Unity and Unreal prevail over Godot and it's forks, there's a reason why Apple and Microsoft control 95% of the market share in regards to Operating Systems, there's even a reason why Redhat Enterprise is now proprietary. If nothing is done now, FOSS will either rot or it will splinter.

 

[306h4Ge5eJUJ]

there's a reason why Apple and Microsoft control 95% of the market share in regards to [desktop] Operating Systems

That reason is Microsoft bribing OEMs and various governments. It has fuck all to do with FOSS infighting.

 

[just Reading a post]

People will always wonder why proprietary software a lot of the time wins the day. Shit like this is why, activists will inevitably fuck shit up and throw out the core principle of something like Open Source because of petty grievances. With proprietary software, there is at the very least the illusion of professionalism and the profit motive keeping them from going full retard in a lot of cases despite of the spyware or other bullshit that comes with their programs.

There's a reason why Unity and Unreal prevail over Godot and it's forks, there's a reason why Apple and Microsoft control 95% of the market share in regards to Operating Systems, there's even a reason why Redhat Enterprise is now proprietary. If nothing is done now, FOSS will either rot or it will splinter.

I said the same before. Take the CVE that almost got Linux backdoored a few months ago. In a company like Microsoft, the guy who was stupid enough to let a chink fluff his ego enough to get the keys to kingdom like that. That guy would be out of a job and they would also take legal action. But we have to be endlessly sympathetic and understanding to a FOSS faggot who does it for free?
FOSS has lost its standards. Everyone is allowed to fuck up constantly, because rebel posting about how much you hate the corpos is the excuse.
The guy got away with almost fucking shit up for the whole of the Linux eco system, partly because he was sad posting on his main dev account about how he was "burned out".
Linux activists are just in it for the rebel posting.
It is getting to a point were Linux activists are fucking over the Linux project as whole, in an endless quest to be king of the ashes.
In this stupid paradigm we have at the moment. I can say "fuck Microsoft" and be sure that Microsoft wont hack my shit to get back at me. Not so much for a FOSS fag, who have proven they will sabotage their own projects to pwn the people they argue with.
Take the Node.js bullshit. I had to waste time downgrading packages because the sperg who ran the repo got ass hurt about slavs killing slavs, and i am not having a compromised package full of political schizoing, fucking up my computer.
Linux is freedom they like to say. But the only freedom we have seems to be to do as the Linux activists say.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

That reason is Microsoft bribing OEMs and various governments. It has fuck all to do with FOSS infighting.

Learn your history.

The single biggest failing of Open Source is the Open Source community and its constant infighting, petty squabbles, holy wars and general autistic dumbfuckery.

 

[306h4Ge5eJUJ]

Learn your history.

The single biggest failing of Open Source is the Open Source community and its constant infighting, petty squabbles, holy wars and general autistic dumbfuckery.

"Learn your history", lol. Enlighten me: What FOSS infighting allowed Microsoft to push exclusivity agreements onto OEMs? What FOSS infighting let Microsoft embed itself into the IT of governments during the 90s?

 

[Samuel Fuller]

"Learn your history", lol. Enlighten me: What FOSS infighting allowed Microsoft to push exclusivity agreements onto OEMs? What FOSS infighting let Microsoft embed itself into the IT of governments during the 90s?

There was no united front to fight any of that because the feud between Stallman/the FSF and Eric S Raymond was a holy war where Stallman's retardation made him refuse to start a lobbying organization with Raymond's help because Open Source wasn't FREE SOFTWARE and banding together with the heretic ESR was haram.

But sure, blame Microsoft (Who are evil scum, for sure) for the other side not putting up a fight to stop them.

Stupidity like yours is also a hallmark of Open Source's history and destiny of failure outside of the cult.

 

[Combustion Engine]

People will always wonder why proprietary software a lot of the time wins the day. Shit like this is why, activists will inevitably fuck shit up and throw out the core principle of something like Open Source because of petty grievances. With proprietary software, there is at the very least the illusion of professionalism and the profit motive keeping them from going full retard in a lot of cases despite of the spyware or other bullshit that comes with their programs.

There's a reason why Unity and Unreal prevail over Godot and it's forks, there's a reason why Apple and Microsoft control 95% of the market share in regards to Operating Systems, there's even a reason why Redhat Enterprise is now proprietary. If nothing is done now, FOSS will either rot or it will splinter.

Free software and open-source in general is an amazing thing, but each individual project is too susceptible to its leadership. Far too many people believe it's okay, the right thing to do, and perfectly sane to turn anything amazing they've made into an activist tool, we have seen many cases of that and at an alarmingly increasing rate. Companies have an implicit obligation to keep selling a product to their customers, and an explicit one to their shareholders not to tear themselves down with political infighting, that's a brake many FOSS projects don't have. The Unity fiasco is mostly forgotten about now, its CEO was forced to step down and they added a clause that no runtime fee will happen in any version as it stands now, and it seems like they might be on the right track with 6 to stop constantly releasing half-baked features. Godot's leadership (W4 foundation members) is the opposite of that, stubborn and incompetent, making claims of being AA-ready while constantly covering behind the "hobbyist engine" drivel, you can't kick them off and they decide where the project goes and what gets done, and how. Good luck trying to fork that incredibly opinionated mess, making sense of it. Even if you succeed, you'll be feeding code back to them to port into consoles making money and supporting their decisions. I'll trust a company over incompetent individuals, but competently led FOSS software is almost sacred.

You can see a pattern in many FOSS projects. Some tend to be the source of constant and endless drama of the worst kind while others are far less theatrical and take (usually technical) matters into their own hands and either slowly fade out or wrestle their reasons to exist back into the original project (respectively as an example ffmpeg vs libav, openssl vs libressl). Why is every software adjacent to Wayland, GNOME, Rust, GrapheneOS and so on constantly attracting the most annoying and mentally unstable individuals, some of which have their own thread here, fighting for the most absurd and worthless things? Jumping onto every opportunity to harass developers (see: serenityOS not too long ago) like a brigade? You hear some news and can already imagine the names of people involved, like many did with Drew and the Stallman report. Because the behavior is tolerated, if not encouraged and signaled by timebombs like the Contributor Covenant CoC(k) that look as if they were designed explicitly to make projects implode on the long run. The GNU Kind Communications Guidelines is not like that, and that's also why the recent report explicitly wants it replaced with that Ehmke-monster one. Then you've also got all sorts of cancer going on in discord and the likes of that, because every single piece of software needs to have one with an extensive moderation team that spends their entire day powertripping about activism and politics--that's the only people willing to perform such a lowly task. I hear it's working well for Hyprland, be careful not pressing the clown emoji button to any announcement.

Apple and Microsoft don't "control" as much "operating systems" market share as you think. That "95%" is a desktop figure, because the gnu/linux environment has never wasted too much effort trying to appeal to the majority of technically illiterate people using computers. Companies use Linux to get stuff done and so do many developers, let alone most of the infrastructure worldwide relying on it. That's one well-led project that doesn't waste time with "problematic" people, go look at some of Torvald's old quotes, altough it's been faltering for the past few years. But it's true it's never been so reliant on those companies, like Red Hat also (possibly the most reprehensible of them), to survive: the bloat is insane and developers paid by those companies have been working a lot on it.

When I think of attempts to subvert software or just ruin things because of ideologies, SQLite also comes to my mind. It should serve as an example in leadership, and they've been attacked for similar code of conduct reasons before.

EDIT: Also.. some have drawn parallels to Occupy Wall Street and how it allegedly collapsed as people with no interest in the movement but all the time and power to fight about identity politics were introduced into it. I wonder if it hasn't been used by government agencies in projects like Tor (see: Appelbaum's "sexual miscoduct") or in the hacker community in general to destabilize it. I don't know if it's worse to be paid to argue about pronouns or not.

 

[AmpleApricots]

paid

Paid? Nah, you don't want to give histronic personalities that turn on a dime like this a smoking gun like that. Also why pay anyone when a gentle shove is all that's needed?

There's too much vested corporate and money interests in the Linux kernel for it to ever go to shit. I also don't know why people keep calling Torvalds subverted, "cucked" and cowed. He was always a pragmatist and not a firm believer like e.g. Stallman is. I mean, the man is using a modern ARM macbook now. I'd not necessarily name him with some of the big names in the same breath when it comes to ideology. That was never different. He's always been like that, with a very narrow focus of interest. I wouldn't put as much weight in the recent tone policing as many people here did. He did drive some people away over the years. It wasn't about pronouns either. Some very universally known callouts were well deserved, but there were also quite a few that were not.

Otherwise, good projects gatekeep the shit out of themselves and they do exist. I mostly can only advise to use good software and stop using software when it stops being good. You avoid ideology-driven software basically automatically because people like this often have neither time nor inclanation to write good software, because they focus too much on coc and politics. Really works. Also please, stop advertising FOSS and Linux to normies. Nothing good comes of it.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

Paid? Nah, you don't want to give histronic personalities that turn on a dime like this a smoking gun like that. Also why pay anyone when a gentle shove is all that's needed?

There's too much vested corporate and money interests in the Linux kernel for it to ever go to shit. I also don't know why people keep calling Torvalds subverted, "cucked" and cowed. He was always a pragmatist and not a firm believer like e.g. Stallman is. I mean, the man is using a modern ARM macbook now. I'd not necessarily name him with some of the big names in the same breath when it comes to ideology. That was never different. He's always been like that, with a very narrow focus of interest. I wouldn't put as much weight in the recent tone policing as many people here did. He did drive some people away over the years. It wasn't about pronouns either. Some very universally known callouts were well deserved, but there were also quite a few that were not.

Otherwise, good projects gatekeep the shit out of themselves and they do exist. I mostly can only advise to use good software and stop using software when it stops being good. You avoid ideology-driven software basically automatically because people like this often have neither time nor inclanation to write good software, because they focus too much on coc and politics. Really works. Also please, stop advertising FOSS and Linux to normies. Nothing good comes of it.

Linus was more or less bullied into using the GPL. It was most definitely not his first choice, and he had concerns about it for very valid reasons, but being a pragmatist, he wanted to get the code out there and did what he had to do to make it happen.

 

[306h4Ge5eJUJ]

I can feel the Spergatory coming.

There was no united front to fight any of that because the feud between Stallman/the FSF and Eric S Raymond was a holy war where Stallman's retardation made him refuse to start a lobbying organization with Raymond's help because Open Source wasn't FREE SOFTWARE and banding together with the heretic ESR was haram.

The FSF had existed for 13 years before the OSI was founded, so it would have been Raymond who split off here, specifically because he wanted to get rid of the user freedom angle (which he thought wouldn't be palatable to companies) and focus on the angle that open-source software creates higher quality software for cheaper. Given how Microsoft is currently treating VS Code (forks are effectively impossible due to proprietary extensions whose licenses state they may only be used with the original VS Code), this isn't nearly as black and white as you make it sound.

Linus was more or less bullied into using the GPL. It was most definitely not his first choice, and he had concerns about it for very valid reasons, but being a pragmatist, he wanted to get the code out there and did what he had to do to make it happen.

I'd love to hear those reasons because I can't find anything about this, especially the bullied into part. The license did change early on, but the original Linux license was very similar to the GPL, and arguably even more restrictive.

 

[UERISIMILITUDO]

Companies have an implicit obligation to keep selling a product to their customers, and an explicit one to their shareholders not to tear themselves down with political infighting, that's a brake many FOSS projects don't have.

Hey, off-topic, would anyone like to go to Disney World with me?

You can see a pattern in many FOSS projects. Some tend to be the source of constant and endless drama of the worst kind while others are far less theatrical and take (usually technical) matters into their own hands and either slowly fade out or wrestle their reasons to exist back into the original project (respectively as an example ffmpeg vs libav, openssl vs libressl).

At least half the problem is most people don't know how to program. I've mentioned it earlier in this thread, but we're really seeing the limits of what people can do with the worst tools possible. Furthermore, software should be finished at some point, and this alone would solve many of the problems.

People who don't want to be bothered by these parasites, or Indians trying to get a T-shirt, should get off MicroSoft GitHub. This is currently the best way to avoid this kind of shit, just get off shitty programmer Facebook.

 

[AnOminous]

The guy got away with almost fucking shit up for the whole of the Linux eco system, partly because he was sad posting on his main dev account about how he was "burned out".

Never mind the infestation of troons that would backdoor everything for troon reasons.

There was no united front to fight any of that because the feud between Stallman/the FSF and Eric S Raymond was a holy war where Stallman's retardation made him refuse to start a lobbying organization with Raymond's help because Open Source wasn't FREE SOFTWARE and banding together with the heretic ESR was haram.

I preferred rms's turbo-autism to the kind of "pragmatism" that has led to the entire community being dominated by troons who have no interest whatsoever in shit actually working.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

Never mind the infestation of troons that would backdoor everything for troon reasons.

I preferred rms's turbo-autism to the kind of "pragmatism" that has led to the entire community being dominated by troons who have no interest whatsoever in shit actually working.

Adorable that you don't think the GNU crew is as pozzed as everything else in software.

 

[Weapons of Mass Tardation]

Hey, off-topic, would anyone like to go to Disney World with me?

At least half the problem is most people don't know how to program. I've mentioned it earlier in this thread, but we're really seeing the limits of what people can do with the worst tools possible. Furthermore, software should be finished at some point, and this alone would solve many of the problems.

People who don't want to be bothered by these parasites, or Indians trying to get a T-shirt, should get off MicroSoft GitHub. This is currently the best way to avoid this kind of shit, just get off shitty programmer Facebook.

I keep meeting developers that seem to believe if something isn't having code committed at least monthly, it must be worthless, broken and abandoned. If the software isn't racing towards whatever the modern equivalent of JWZ's "reads email" is, it obviously can't be any good. It's absolutely how we get these bloated shitass tools that don't do anything well. I agree that if you really wanted to do open source for the sake of building and not doing the software development of posting selfies, I think it's best to just go back to running your own cgit or fossil instance with a mailing list, and take patches the old fashioned way, whiners be damned. As an added bonus, it makes it easier to just rangeban the subcontinent and the PRC from the outset.

Related to RMS, some combination of hell freezing over, and Drew generally just massively fucking up (as he is wont to do), the Kiwifarms info about the report being Drew's doing and Drew being a gross lolicon is somehow alive and near the top of the page in the Hacker Nudes comments:

The top comment calls out what we already know. I really think Drew's bullshit is catching more people's attention in an irritating way, and it wouldn't be surprising to me if he didn't get cancelled by the same fags he panders to soon. I just can't believe that a comment linking KF as a source of useful information on HN isn't Terry Davis posts levels of dead.

 

[skunt]

the Kiwifarms info about the report being Drew's doing and Drew being a gross lolicon is somehow alive and near the top of the page in the Hacker Nudes comments:

it fills me with joy that two people are openly posting links to the farms without being either instabanned, downvoted or getting their comments deleted. this will only fuel drews hatred of HN more i bet.

 

[DavidS877]

In my experience the main reason large corporations go with Apple, Microsoft, RedHat, etc. is simple.

They want someone to blame. They can hire people like me who can fix most RedHat stuff long before you can get past RedHat 'did you try turning it off and on, did you run dnf update' first level support but at the end of the day they can't all hire 'Dave' and even if they can they always have the nagging feeling that what if something goes wrong, we need A VENDOR to complain to. It's always funny when you find a kernel bug, submit it to RH as a paying customer, with a 3 line patch and it finally gets fixed 6 months later.

 

[GNU Abyss]

I keep meeting developers that seem to believe if something isn't having code committed at least monthly, it must be worthless, broken and abandoned. If the software isn't racing towards whatever the modern equivalent of JWZ's "reads email" is, it obviously can't be any good. It's absolutely how we get these bloated shitass tools that don't do anything well. I agree that if you really wanted to do open source for the sake of building and not doing the software development of posting selfies, I think it's best to just go back to running your own cgit or fossil instance with a mailing list, and take patches the old fashioned way, whiners be damned. As an added bonus, it makes it easier to just rangeban the subcontinent and the PRC from the outset.

Constantly reworking the code/API and adding new, often superfluous, features, is also a source of power. If your project is done, solid as a rock, then what reason will the users have to constantly refer to you and give you attention? It's like that fake Stroustrup interview about C++ and job security, with somewhat different methods because the source code is open to everybody and it's often more about clout and lock-in rather than straight up money.

 

[mentally retarded user]

Pipewire is just finished while Wayland is a Total Retard War.

Xorg won.

 

[CrunkLord420]

Pipewire is just finished while Wayland is a Total Retard War.

Xorg won.

Amazing how everyone just seamlessly transitioned to pipewire. It even replaced my dual JACK2/PulseAudio setup. Meanwhile the Wayland transition has yet to even be proven as truly feasible a million years later.