Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

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clownworld said:
Go's new module system has to clone down every dependency from version control, though at least it caches them in a shared system cache and performs a shallow clone, and doesn't duplicate files all over your system.
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You know what's worse than that? A package manager that doesn't even attempt to cache artifacts and see if the same package can be used across multiple projects. Thanks, cargo.
 
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Eric S Raymond has always been one of the more controversial figures in the FOSS movement both due to his paranoia and outspoken nature. One of his more notable endeavors was being one of the co-founders of the Open Source Initiative. Today he's been banned from the OSI mailing lists for asking two loaded questions and starting a debate. The first question was about revoking licenses, comparing the OSI to the iconic UL certifications. His second question was vastly more loaded, calling out Persona Non Grata clauses (likely a reference to Coraline Ada's Ethical Source movement and his shitty ass license). What resulted was a debate which did include some people coming out to support ESR as well.

ESR finally pissed off the OSI mailing list jannies when he used a personal attack on him (read: calling Corey a loonytoon) and mentioned Corey's success at pushing his CoC. Once he got banned, ESR wrote an article about this on his webblog. He calls out Corey by name and many of the comments mention this shitstorm as well.

Unsurprisingly Corey had a huge Twitter chimpout as you'd expect over this and has been whining all day about how the old guard hates his ass. While we're at it, it's also worth noting that Corey is running to be an OSI board member and is having a meltdown at negative comments. Unsurprisingly OSI jannies are cleaning up negative comments for him

I've also attached the mailing list archive gzip in case anything else gets deleted.
 

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garakfan69 said:
ESR is way too nice to Corey. Corey doesn't really give a shit about exceptional SJW values.
He's not some misguided idealist but a fucking scam artist and parasite who attaches himself on to successful FOSS projects to increase his portfolio and get better jobs to fuel his drug habit.
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That describes pretty much everyone of any influence who claims to endorse SJW values. It's just a way to climb the social ladder and consequently get paid.
 
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One blog still worth paying attention to for drama within the old guard of FOSS communities is the techrights blog. They've been publishing a series of articles of the inner workings of the FSF and how RMS is seen inside them along with reposting articles from Alexandre Olivia and articles regarding drama in that part of the community too.

I also found out from them just now that there's blackmailing going on in the Debian mailing list.

Jeromeo said:
Corey just needs to fuck off. I tired of his smug mug.
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He's not going to until he either dies, gets blacklisted, or has control of the entire FOSS movement. And he's going to use the trans card to justify everyone hating him because everyone else is a bigot, without showing you the exact comments said to him and wanting them wiped off the internet by his sympathizers inside the OSI. He wanted OSI jannies to wipe that quoted ESR email from the archives.
 
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CIA Nigger said:
He's not going to until he either dies, gets blacklisted, or has control of the entire FOSS movement. And he's going to use the trans card to justify everyone hating him because everyone else is a bigot, without showing you the exact comments said to him and wanting them wiped off the internet by his sympathizers inside the OSI. He wanted OSI jannies to wipe that quoted ESR email from the archives.
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the trans card only works till people get sick of it. it's like crying wolf or calling everyone a nazi, overdo it and it loses all meaning (and that's without the culture at large shifting),
it's not as people can't just say "sure bud", pick up their code and go elsewhere. trying to "subvert" open source is a pretty futile attempt in the long run since there are only two outcomes: take over and see it wither and die because your spazzing out drove off all the talent or whine and try to fork shit yourself with your zero talent and see that wither and die. how's glimpse going these days?

but as someone said, it gets darkest before dawn so it's gonna get worse before it gets better.
 
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I've even seen a lot of normies rolling their eyes at computer trannies lately, I also do think that trans card isn't working as well as it did maybe three years ago. Besides the ranting I sometimes did in this thread what I also have to admit I see more of is people criticizing incredibly bloated solutions and wanting to set up simpler software workflows.

Also distros inner politics have always been incredibly gay. Maintainers are basically forums jannies in that hunger for that tiny little bit of power and authority. The solution is, as always, to stop being niggerlicious and write your own package manager, like a white man. I'm joking of course (kind of) but it's kinda funny and sad how so many so-called linux specialists don't even know the basics of setting up an incredibly simple system consisting of a system- and workload-tailored kernel that handles of to PID 1. (whatever that is) and having a small working interactive setup literally consisting of only a shell and some binaries. There are way too many people running around with certifications for which this simple shit might as well be pure magic. That's how we get garbage like systemd. What still surprises me after all these years with all the garbage floating around is how the Linux kernel is still pretty high quality, even with all the corps and governments having their dick dipped in it. I don't think this will last forever though. It's sad that there's so little in the way of viable alternatives, but the clusterfuck that's modern hardware is to be blamed for that.
 
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Apologies for the lack of archived links. It looks like the archive.today network is blanket banning Tor at the moment, even on their own onion site.

So this email is supposed to be the "blackmail"
Request to Mini DebConf Montreal Organizers: Fight Israel not the DC20 Team




TL;DR: Between the pro-boycott language in the Montreal announcement and
the request for a Debian approved budget and logistical resources, The
Mini DebConf Montreal organizers have created a perception that they are
undermining the hard work of the DebConf 20 team. I ask them to take a
positive step to show that their disagreement is not with the volunteers
of Debian putting on a conference.

First, I'd like to thank everyone for letting me take the time to get my
thoughts in order and approach this situation with compassion.

Background
==========

The Montreal Debian community is organizing a mini DebConf in August of
this year.
In their announcement they indicated that they were putting on the
conference because their participation in the Boycott/Divest/Sanction
movement was incompatible with DebConf 20's location.

Meanwhile, the organizers have asked me as DPL to approve a budget.
They want to use Debian's relationship with SPI to invoice sponsors and
generally make their financial logistics easier.
They anticipate that they would break even or make money.
Even so, Debian would be obligated to SPI to cover any shortfall.
I think a shortfall is unlikely.

Debian's Responsibilities
=========================

I think Debian has two key responsibilities here:

1) We need to support a diverse community of political opinion. We want
to be welcoming to people who commit to our principles and want to work
together to make a free software operating system.
That means there's going to be conflict on issues like this. Sometimes
our members will disagree with what the project does. Sometimes they
will need to stand aside. As a project we need to respect that within
the bounds of our community guidelines.

forming a related effort--whether it is a conference or even a
downstream distribution--is often a healthy way to respect this kind of
disagreement.

2) We need to respect and support our volunteers doing work in Debian.
While there is plenty of room for disagreement as we're making
decisions, there needs to come a point where we as a project stand
behind the people doing the work. Instead, we tend to have a culture of
those unhappy with a decision sniping at or undermining the efforts of
those doing work.
That harms our community.

Debian will always have a robust and open decision process. But we need
to have a finite decision process and support people after the decision
is made.

Debian is Asked to Support a Protest of a Debian Activity
=========================================================

The Montreal organizers could have simply organized an alternative for
those who were not traveling to DC20 for whatever reason.
That's something Debian could support with no reservations.

By making the political statement in their announcement, they have
turned the conference into a protest. It's being billed as an
alternative to DebConf for political reasons.

If their effort was entirely outside of Debian, that would be fine.
That would be part of the larger free software community having healthy
disagreement.

However, they are asking for Debian's support. They are asking for
financial liquidity and risk mitigation. They are asking for logistical
support.

So in effect the Debian Project is being asked to support a protest of
its own activity.

This sucks for the DC20 team. Everyone I've talked to about this has
raised the argument that it's not a big deal: the DC20 team has already
had to develop a thick skin.
THAT'S BULLSHIT!
I do not want to facilitate a Debian where we expect our volunteers to
be inured to their efforts being disrespected and challenged so much
that we discount piling on other minor aggressions because it's not a
big deal.
Our community is our most precious resource; we need to stop treating
them like crap.

Having the project support a protest of their efforts does create a
perception that we value them less.
I want to avoid that.


So, as DPL, I could deny the budget and force the Montreal event to be
outside of Debian. That's no good either. My frustration has probably
already created somewhat of a wedge. I regret that, while also
acknowledging that sharing our feelings and frustrations is an important
part of building connection.
I don't want to create wedges. The folks in Montreal are part of our
community too.
They disagree with something we've done.
We don't want to drive them away, even if for a few days in August they
are going to stand aside because of their convictions.

So, I'm going to approve the budget with one change requested by the
DebConf committee. But see below.



My Request to Montreal Organizers
=================================

First, please acknowledge that the combination of your political
announcement and asking for Debian support creates a negative perception
that might tend to undermine Debian's support for its volunteers. That
may not be what you intend, but it is a consequence.

I hope you are committed to valuing the other members of Debian even
when you disagree with them. I hope that your fight is with Israel's
government not with our volunteers.

So, I ask you to find and make some meaningful, clear statement to show
support for our volunteers putting on DC20.

I think the easiest way for you to do that is to withdraw your budget
request and for you to do the conference logistics on your own. In
effect, accept the idea that putting this too close to Debian puts the
project in an awkward position and remove that. If we force you, it is
inherently distancing. If you do it on your own, it can be
constructive.

I have no doubt that you can do this without Debian and SPI's
relationship. Yes, absolutely it will be more work.
But you've already demonstrated you have what it takes to run a
successful conference.


If that's not your choice, then I ask you to find some other meaningful
way (stronger than just words) to show support for the volunteers in
Debian, even though you disagree with the location.

The choice is entirely yours.
This is a request. You can reinterpret it or even ignore it. I hope
that you do choose to turn this into an example of how we can
constructively disagree.

Debian supports the DC20 Team
=============================

I want to take this opportunity to express strong support for the
volunteers putting on DebConf 20. Your contributions to the Debian
community are greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your understanding and hard work.

Thanks for your Consideration,

Sam Hartman
Debian Project Leader
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tl;dr
Debian's next major conference is taking place in Israel.
Some people are uncomfortable with that and don't want to go which is fair enough, it is a complicated political situation with a lot of blood spilled on both sides.
There's nothing wrong with a dignified boycott.

The issue is that some people are organizing a protest conference in Canada and asking for funding at the same time.
The Debian project leader is basically saying, if you want funding from the project then stop undermining the project and cut the spergy political rhetoric which is just dividing the community for no reason. Otherwise if you insist on making it a political circlejerk then fund it out of your own pocket.

I don't really see how that's blackmail, he's just doing his job in keeping the project on topic and trying to keep the community as united as possible.

There's also this "censored" email which I think is a bit of a nothing burger.

DebConf20: offer to speak in Palestine censored

You can't read this: a [flagged] marker has been added to this post on Hacker News, more evidence of the secretive cabals working behind the scenes to silenc...
debian.community
Subject: DebConf Israel and DebConf Palestine
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 23:59:18 +0100
To: debian-project@lists.debian.org

Many people remain uncomfortable about how DebConf organizers are handling the challenges presented in the middle east.

I'd like to share an observation about how the British currently handle the question of visiting Israel: when Government or royal officials go there, they spend 50% of their time on Palestinian territory. They also visit neighboring countries.

Could half of DebConf 2020 be held in Palestine?

Would anybody like to have two DebConfs back-to-back, one in Israel and one in Palestine?

I'd personally volunteer to give the same talk twice for both audiences.

Debian Developers are volunteers and can't be obliged to visit either of these countries. However, in the case of people funded by bursaries, it may be reasonable to make it a criteria of the bursary that the recipient visits both countries.
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He's not just innocently advertising his alternative talk, he wants Debian to spend equal time in both locations to signal neutrality or something.
I expect the mods were tired of the Israel vs Palestine slapfights at this point, so they binned an OP that was obviously trying to reignite it again.

Although there is a single shred of rational thought in the parent article
Is Wirt really fighting anti-semitism, or could the DebConf20 organizers simply be afraid of any discussion that may deter wealthy Israeli sponsors?
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Debian is a non-profit technical project. Israel has a booming tech industry with plenty of talent and, yes, money.
So hosting a tech conference there makes perfect sense.
I'm pretty sure the bottom line is that Palestine simply has nothing to offer and virtue signalling doesn't pay the bills.
But from a leftist's upsidedown world view, the more worthless you are, the more you deserve nice things.
After a certain point you can't really reconcile such a fundamental conflict of values so a leader standing up and saying this is happening so shut up and deal with it is fair enough I reckon.

It would be interesting if anyone has an alternative perspective or if I missed anything though.
 
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emuemuemu said:
Debian is a non-profit technical project. Israel has a booming tech industry with plenty of talent and, yes, money.
So hosting a tech conference there makes perfect sense.
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So if you host a conference in the state of Israel, our greatest ally, you won't have to deal with SJWs? I'm not seeing the minus.
 
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CIA Nigger said:
Eric S Raymond has always been one of the more controversial figures in the FOSS movement both due to his paranoia and outspoken nature. One of his more notable endeavors was being one of the co-founders of the Open Source Initiative. Today he's been banned from the OSI mailing lists for asking two loaded questions and starting a debate. The first question was about revoking licenses, comparing the OSI to the iconic UL certifications. His second question was vastly more loaded, calling out Persona Non Grata clauses (likely a reference to Coraline Ada's Ethical Source movement and his shitty ass license). What resulted was a debate which did include some people coming out to support ESR as well.

ESR finally pissed off the OSI mailing list jannies when he used a personal attack on him (read: calling Corey a loonytoon) and mentioned Corey's success at pushing his CoC. Once he got banned, ESR wrote an article about this on his webblog. He calls out Corey by name and many of the comments mention this shitstorm as well.

Unsurprisingly Corey had a huge Twitter chimpout as you'd expect over this and has been whining all day about how the old guard hates his ass. While we're at it, it's also worth noting that Corey is running to be an OSI board member and is having a meltdown at negative comments. Unsurprisingly OSI jannies are cleaning up negative comments for him

I've also attached the mailing list archive gzip in case anything else gets deleted.
Click to expand...

Thanks for capturing this, I had a todo to write something up regarding Cory's 'ethics' license. How much gas does this tranny have left in the tank? He was fired from GitHub, is he still finding success elsewhere?
 
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clownworld said:
Thanks for capturing this, I had a todo to write something up regarding Cory's 'ethics' license. How much gas does this tranny have left in the tank? He was fired from GitHub, is he still finding success elsewhere?
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Here's a thread on Corey, but his big victory has been pushing his Code of Conduct everywhere. The Linux project adopted it as their code of conduct right when Linus Torvalds took a break and it sparked speculation he had been compromised. Right now Github is pushing it as one of the default codes and Corey himself brags about how often it's used. People who have no idea about the code of conduct drama might think "yeah this is a good idea, it sounds good on paper" and slap it onto their project instead of writing something small and simple.

So Corey's plan with this is to recreate his success with FOSS licensing yet he's running into roadblocks with the FSF and OSI not approving nonfree licenses claiming they're ethical. Corey's not the first to try a similar license but this license was made when people said they were male online instead of she/her. Techno libertarians still had power then, nowadays the mindset is "if we can stop this from happening we'll do everything in our power to" as seen with Matthew Prince's bad mood.
 
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tbh while ESR could be right he went about it in such a way it makes me think if the guy should have his own thread in this website right besides Corey. Sure bud, start an organization, don't participate in the mailing list for 20 years ,then run in with your hair on fire and your dick out. Talk about doing everything wrong.

On a different topic, anyone know what Lunduke is talking about? [archive]
1583639051324.png

AnOminous said:
So if you host a conference in the state of Israel, our greatest ally, you won't have to deal with SJWs? I'm not seeing the minus.
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Oh, you absolutely will, they are attention whores and won't be able to help themselves. You'll see double the amount of posturing and shenanigans. Can you imagine every other talk starting with the speaker berating the crowd, organizers, venue, reminding everyone "this is stolen land", while the other half gets interrupted by idiots in the crowd?
The only way to guarantee they don't attend your conference is inviting Yarvin to speak.
 
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Shoggoth said:
tbh while ESR could be right he went about it in such a way it makes me think if the guy should have his own thread in this website right besides Corey. Sure bud, start an organization, don't participate in the mailing list for 20 years ,then run in with your hair on fire and your dick out. Talk about doing everything wrong.

On a different topic, anyone know what Lunduke is talking about? [archive]
View attachment 1178301


Oh, you absolutely will, they are attention whores and won't be able to help themselves. You'll see double the amount of posturing and shenanigans. Can you imagine every other talk starting with the speaker berating the crowd, organizers, venue, reminding everyone "this is stolen land", while the other half gets interrupted by idiots in the crowd?
The only way to guarantee they don't attend your conference is inviting Yarvin to speak.
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You're implying that people who talk that shit will even be allowed in Israel.
 
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AnOminous said:
If you fly El-Al and you have social media history of supporting Palestinian terrorism you'll be sent right back.
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a. I didn't know what. When exactly do they check your social media history? How are they supposed to know? Do you have source on that?
b. Plenty of companies have flights to Israel. I doubt Turkish Airlines will be checking your anything
 
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