Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[Black Willow Lurker]

Not the topic but this is why I got rid of syntax highlighting ages ago. What do all these colors even mean at this point

That's a bit *too* hardcore. Even if colors are sort-of-random, it's still helpful to distinguish between different "tokens". Although, it'd probably be more helpful to not write code that looks like a wall of text without the syntax highlighting, but alas.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

The ligatures arguement, and syntax highlighting arguement is definitely off topic. And it's even too autistic for me to care about. Both are tools that do their job, which is clearly conveying what the code you are looking at is doing at a glance, to find the area you are looking for in a particular block. Whether you like either, or find either helpful is completely opinion based.

The funny thing is, that picture wasn't even from a terminal. It was in the browser.

 

[General Zoider]

yes lets get this thread back on topic and remember the real enemy which is jeets and troons infecting everything with politics and horribly coded rust.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

I was watching this. And the guy mentions something about the charter that got me thinking.

Since generally they aren't supposed to, and generally try not to codify anything in the C standard that doesn't already exist in some kind of use in a compiler. It made me think about that new memory safe C compiler, and if anything could be implemented into the C standard around memory safety as the result of anything it does.

I haven't looked closely at what it does and if it does anything that isn't already in the C standard. But it's an interesting thought.

It would be nice not having rust trannies constantly saying C is inherently unsafe. Because that's what they all say. C code even if it is safe is inherently unsafe because it's C.

 

[Creative Username]

yes lets get this thread back on topic

correct

- snip -

further discussion on language theory should take place after the reply to this post that i made in the programming thread

 

[Council of Clermont]

Sharing from the obscure laughingstocks thread. There's been some dumb drama going on in the Gemini protocol over the last few days. Basically two of the more well-known members of the community started arguing about an esoteric part of the protocol spec, and one was a belligerent asshole while the other had a total meltdown.

I'm retarded and don't know how to crosspost properly, so I'm putting a link here instead. But apparently my retardation extends to the original post itself, and I messed up some links, including omitting the actual schizo rant itself. Link here (proxy) / A.

 

[Kokonut Kangs Klan]

I'm retarded and don't know how to crosspost properly

[embed content="post-23118705"]https://kiwifarms.st/threads/obscure-laughingstocks.277/post-23118705[/embed]

Post in thread 'Obscure Laughingstocks'

Dec 2, 2025

Minor slapfight happening on the Gemini protocol between two well-known community members.

Spoiler: Context: What is Gemini

Gemini is an unofficial Internet protocol created in 2019. Regular Web browsers can't access content that is hosted via Gemini, so you have to download special-made browsers to do it (or, if you're handy with a terminal, you can do it via command line). It comes with a markup document standard that is brutally simplistic: there are no in-line links, no special formatting like bold or italics, and no embedded images. If you're familiar with the technical history of the Internet, Gemini is...

• Council of Clermont

Reactions: x 7 x 1

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Crosspost from the SBC thread.
tl;dr custom hardware vendor OS can't hit hardware performance due to the company being lazy jackasses
Devs says update soon (LMAO) due to backlash, threatens to go closed source and tells them to fix it themself (by coding his own microcode, which isn't open source AFAIK) instead of asking why is this happening in an extremely passive-aggressive manner.

Post in thread 'SBC / Low Power boards general'

Dec 3, 2025

@AmpleApricots you might find this funny / horrifying

Meanwhile...Radxa is in hot water (at least in the Chinese community) for being deceptive. Apparently the CIX cannot hit advertised speeds even with official images, cue the Redhat NOTABUG attitude.

Here's chat support group convo, they told a buyer go fuck himself when caught out for deceptive advertising (they wouldn't do this to a foreigner).
Customer: Hello, why is the ram on the O6 not 6000? Why did you send me a 5500 one?

(Two hours later on a working day):
C: Can you give me an explanation? I see other...

• Darkholme's Dungeon

Reactions: x 4 x 3 x 1 x 1 x 1

 

[General Zoider]

Crosspost from the SBC thread.

trusting china to not screw its own people: challenge impossible

when I was doing reverse engineering so I could open source old forgotten software, they used to be the people who add all the "insider" information and were the kings of clean room reverse engineering. But you always had to keep them on a leash because they loved to either insert weird code or legal language that would fuck you over in the future.

 

[Ferryman]

Crosspost from the SBC thread.

Radxa loves to advertise themselves as "fully open source TM", but as far as I can tell, MNT are the only ARM devs that have an almost fully FOSS boot chain (IIRC the only things that aren't open are their RAM init and some Thunderbolt firmware). Shame its got such a steep price tag. Same with RISC boards like the one Framework has, or the much cheaper LicheePi.

 

[Kendall Motor Oil]

I stumbled upon a Debian mailing list thread from 2014 regarding adding the notorious Bernd und das Rätsel um Unteralterbach visual novel to the package repo.
It reads like a typical Debian list so don't get excited for fireworks.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2014/03/msg00017.html

Here's some snippets.

Summary: I've tried the game, and don't think it's suitable for Debian.

Welcome, Nils!

(Keeping you separately addressed because you were in the message I'm
replying to; please say so if you are subscribed.)

(Also, I've seen remarkably few replies to this; for anyone replying,
please keep debian-devel-games@lists.debian.org in the loop.)

On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 08:39:20PM +0100, Mateusz Jończyk wrote:
> 2014-03-03 18:37 GMT+01:00 Nils Dagsson Moskopp <nils@dieweltistgarnichtso.net>:
> > I am not that interested in most video games, as I think they
> > contain needless grinding. However, I am interested in games with
> > interesting mechanics or story,

I agree that those are often very interesting.

> > I am somewhat anxious about packaging Unteralterbach, as it may show
> > - depending on player choices - content pertaining to sexual abuse,
> > bdsm, consent, moral panics, slut shaming, virgin shaming, religion,
> > etc. and makes fun of the german federal police and several
> > contemporary public figures. However, I believe that the author has
> > handled these issues in a suitable manner, delivering a compelling
> > story based on these themes.

This got me interested, so I went to check out the game to see how bad
it was, and if it would be suitable for Debian. I'll give facts first,
then my (perhaps not so relevant) opinion. I am Dutch, and understand
German, so that was no barrier.



The erotic content is not optional, AFAICS. Only the abuse is optional.
The first time you get to a point where you can see it, you have to
click a button that says "I'm mentally ill and want to see this". Given
that these are (drawn) images of child abuse, I think they are actually
criminal to possess in many countries (including mine, the Netherlands,
so I have already deleted the game).




A more serious objection is the effect that it has on the "mentally ill"
people that the game mentions. I fear the effect that this game may
have on them, could be to convince them that sex with children is not
always a bad thing. The fact that the children are so realistic
otherwise may add to this risk that they may not keep fantasy and
reality separate. Their mental condition will surely stimulate that
line of thinking. In some cases, that may lead to more child abuse. I
would certainly not want to be responsible for that (in a broader sense
than just legally).

[1] And as for the artists, they have done a great job here. This game
looks very good and has obviously taken a lot of work to make. It's
a pity they didn't choose a different subject.

 

[Radovan Karadžić]

I'd like to bring attention to Andrew Kelley, the benevolent retarded dictator of the Zig programming language. Some of his 300 IQ decisions include:

• Disallowing the use of tabs or carriage returns in source code
• Making unused variables an error without the ability to suppress it
  • Making devs jump through hoops is a good thing, actually (L)
• Every new release breaking everyone's code, no deprecation messages here!
• Insulting users who do not agree with him 100% (L)
• Crying in a tech conference because of some faggy historical events (L)

A week ago he made the genius decision to move Zig from GitHub to Codeberg because of "AI slop". How would that be avoided in Codeberg was never explained. He called the people who work on GitHub, on the official Zig site, "losers", which was quietly changed to "rookies" and then removed altogether with no explanation. (L) Oh, and he also decided to get into a slapfight with some former GitHub employee. (L)

Overall, an interesting specimen to keep track of. I wouldn't be surprised if Zig eventually falls apart, precisely because of this sperg.

---

One ironic thing is that Bun, a JavaScript runtime alternative to NodeJS and basically the only Zig success story, has been acquired by an AI company. (L)

On the topic of NodeJS alternatives, the other viable alternative, Deno, made in everyone's favorite trannylang, has been suing Oracle so they release the trademarks for JavaScript. (L) Supposedly, they already wasted $500,000 of donators' money without achieving anything. The Lawnmower just can't stop winning!

 

[Coolio55]

I'd like to bring attention to Andrew Kelley, the benevolent retarded dictator of the Zig programming language. Some of his 300 IQ decisions include:

• Disallowing the use of tabs or carriage returns in source code
• Making unused variables an error without the ability to suppress it
  • Making devs jump through hoops is a good thing, actually (L)
• Every new release breaking everyone's code, no deprecation messages here!
• Insulting users who do not agree with him 100% (L)
• Crying in a tech conference because of some faggy historical events (L)

A week ago he made the genius decision to move Zig from GitHub to Codeberg because of "AI slop". How would that be avoided in Codeberg was never explained. He called the people who work on GitHub, on the official Zig site, "losers", which was quietly changed to "rookies" and then removed altogether with no explanation. (L) Oh, and he also decided to get into a slapfight with some former GitHub employee. (L)

Overall, an interesting specimen to keep track of. I wouldn't be surprised if Zig eventually falls apart, precisely because of this sperg.

My favourite "Zig Team Moment" is when a joke response to some for-loop related question ended up in multiple codebases and they sheepishly had to add new language features.
You see, you were just supposed to know what obscure pattern to use (IIRC you were supposed to create a new block and put temporary variables in it for a while loop) without any of the documentation telling you. Fuck you for asking.
Don't look up "Result Location Semantics". It makes C's "spiral" pointer syntax look good.
Keep in mind that Andy expects you to be able to understand all of this but asserts that you're too stupid for multiline comments.

E: Here's one of the devteam calling you retarded for making them change their loops:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34957057 (https://archive.is/UXDxt)

Ranges for for loops was a long time coming. Some C programmers just completely lost their shit at having to use a while loop for some reason. It was such a common complaint that we invented stuff like the following as a joke, that of course became something people actually used because internet gonna internet:

for(@as([10]void, undefined)) |_, idx| {<br> _ = idx;<br> }<br>

Which, for those unfamiliar with Zig, has `for` iterate over an 'array' of 0-bit values and capture the index while throwing out the value (which would always be 0 because that's the only value a 0-bit type can represent).
The implementation of this proposal brings with it the additional benefit of making index capturing less mysterious.

 

[Creative Username]

You see, you were just supposed to know what obscure pattern to use (IIRC you were supposed to create a new block and put temporary variables in it for a while loop) without any of the documentation telling you. Fuck you for asking.

top 10 languages that are going to end up worse than javascript very quickly

Don't look up "Result Location Semantics". It makes C's "spiral" pointer syntax look good.

Keep in mind that Andy expects you to be able to understand all of this but asserts that you're too stupid for multiline comments.

oh boy another "amazing c replacement for the 21st century" that is actually just c but worse
wake me up when one actually figures out the design flaws in c and makes something that is both a better language than c and easier to implement than c

banning tabs and carriage returns is definitely not the way to fix anything that is wrong with c. requiring specific kinds of whitespace in a lexical syntax is something that should be left in the 70s when make was invented. of course you have python niggers bringing indentation-sensitive syntax (well-known feature of fortran and cobol) back into style as well

move Zig

all your base

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Crosspost from the SBC thread.
tl;dr custom hardware vendor OS can't hit hardware performance due to the company being lazy jackasses
Devs says update soon (LMAO) due to backlash, threatens to go closed source and tells them to fix it themself (by coding his own microcode, which isn't open source AFAIK) instead of asking why is this happening in an extremely passive-aggressive manner.

Is anyone involved identified? "Tom Cubie" posts on CNX Software on behalf of Raxda Radxa sometimes.

Here's some Transgender Leader in Open Source Ariadne Conill garbage that Hector Martin reskeeted:
https://bsky.app/profile/ariadne.space/post/3m72jemnogk24 (archive) (mega)
https://ariadne.space/2025/12/02/i-want-you-to-understand.html (archive) (ghost) (mega)

Spoiler

I want you to understand what it is like to be transgender during this time.

I want you to understand the threat to doctor-patient confidentiality. In June, the Department of Justice began targeting clinics and health systems which provide treatment for gender dysphoria with subpoenas requesting personally identifying information about patients. While these subpoenas currently target clinics which provide services to minors, it is clear that they are testing the waters for expanding their inquiry to adult patients. Although compliance with these subpoenas is likely illegal as disclosure of these records would violate HIPAA, I worry that I will be included on a list of transgender individuals and targeted for discrimination as a result.

I want you to understand the threat to medical care for trans people more broadly. Like with the subpoenas, these efforts are starting with trans children. Although I am privileged to have private health insurance through my employer, private insurers often use Medicare coverage determination criteria as a baseline for their policies. I worry that I could be denied access to medically necessary health care in the future.

I want you to understand that one does not simply quit taking hormones. Abruptly stopping HRT can leave the body in a hormonal state that may never fully return to baseline and potentially reverses some of the desired effects. This outcome is often distressing, and loss of access to medical care may lead many to self-manage their HRT. Due to confidentiality concerns, such self-managed treatment will likely not be monitored with lab work. Managing hormone therapy without proper medical supervision can be dangerous.

I want you to understand what it is like to travel as a transgender US citizen. As a result of Trump’s Executive Order 14168, it is no longer possible for transgender people to obtain a US passport that correctly reflects their gender presentation. Traveling with identity documents that do not match your gender presentation can be dangerous abroad. In some cases you can even be denied entry or even deported. Such policies discourage trans people from traveling due to fear of discrimination.

I want you to understand what it is like to be a transgender worker. A report from The Williams Institute of Law at UCLA shows that over 80% of transgender employees in the US have experienced discrimination or harassment at work at some point. Contrary to some optimistic portrayals during Pride Month, this is actually getting worse: the Movement Advancement Project 2025 NORC survey reports a significant uptick in discrimination and harassment complaints. If that wasn’t enough, Lambda Legal also reports a surge in the volume of requests submitted to their help desk.

I want you to understand what it is like to be a transgender entrepreneur. Based on a report from Pitchbook, only 0.8% of venture capital funding went to female-founded companies in 2025, the lowest since 2015. While we do not yet have data for LGBTQ founders in 2025, StartOut estimated that only 0.5% of companies which raised venture capital from 2000-2022 were founded by LGBTQ founders. These numbers plainly highlight ongoing social inequities.

I want you to understand what it is like to be a transgender leader in open source. While the open source community has made progress toward inclusion, a study by the Linux Foundation observes that people identifying as women, non-binary, LGBTQ+ or disabled were three times more likely to report threats. Another study found that simply having a Code of Conduct did not make projects safer. Without meaningful enforcement, participants continued to experience harassment. Even meaningful enforcement isn’t enough. For example, after rejecting Xlibre in Alpine due to their reactionary background, a notable alt-right Linux podcaster made a video targeting me, focusing on my transgender identity rather than the technical merits.

I need you to understand that while things are dire for trans people right now, we can fight back and win. At the same time, we must confront these realities: human decency demands it. Support politicians who fight anti-trans policies. Donate to law firms like Lambda Legal. If you are a business owner, hire trans people: we have been driving innovation since time immemorial. If you are an investor, invest in trans founders: the same StartOut report that shows that only 0.5% of funded companies were founded by LGBTQ founders also observed that those founders created more jobs with less funding than their peers.

Doesn't appear on the front page of his blog.

 

[WhiteNight]

I'd like to bring attention to Andrew Kelley, the benevolent retarded dictator of the Zig programming language. Some of his 300 IQ decisions include:

I was initially interested in Zig, several years ago, and tried it out, but seeing Andrew Kelley's behavior and decisions ended my interest. It has attracted substantial projects (I'd say Ghostty is also a Zig success story), but with Kelley's inept decision-making it is doing worse than it might otherwise, and may wind up like D or Smalltalk, niche languages with a small dedicated fanbase.

In addition to the list in the post above (particularly, insultingly dismissing thought-out feedback from his language's users), here is some other lolcow behavior:

• He once called Kubernetes a "cult" (A). To be sure, Kubernetes is often annoying, but it solves a real problem.
• Zig forums are thin-skinned and ban-happy, no doubt under Kelley's influence. Here is a discussion on Reddit where people share their flimsy reasons for banning. E.g., someone was banned from Ziggit because of a comment on Reddit.
• He deleted his Twitter because of Musk's acquisition (A).
• In 2023, the Zig subreddit was made private, with the intent of shutting it down and forcing people onto Zig-hosted forums. Many complained that a lot of valuable discussion would be lost, or rather hidden. This was eventually reversed.
• The Codeberg migration was mentioned, but it's important to emphasize how troublesome it was. Codeberg has a relatively low uptime; see their own panel here and SiteStatus's estimate here. This will be a constant source of frustration for Zig devs.

I will say in Kelley's defense however that his complaints about GitHub enshittification are absolutely valid. The service has gotten worse and worse now that they're dominant and have lock-in and network effects. Also, he did apologize for his intemperate language in the Codeberg blog post and edited it (as noted in the post above). However, I expect contributions will still drop markedly now that they're off GitHub.

 

[WielkiWapiesz2137]

If a project of such magnitude isn’t hosting it’s own git and other infrastructure related to code development it isn’t worth using.

 

[Creative Username]

Codeberg has a relatively low uptime

it can't be any worse than gnu savannah

I will say in Kelley's defense however that his complaints about GitHub enshittification are absolutely valid. The service has gotten worse and worse now that they're dominant and have lock-in and network effects.

proprietary javascript required to do most of the shit on the website, jeets steadily breaking shit, bought by microsoft, etc.
no matter how obnoxious you think the llm hypesters are, github is definitely bad and it's going to get worse over time
i (and many others who, like me, hate propriejeets more than every a&h user combined hates jews) personally hope github ends up like fucking sourceforge: completely raped with like 3 projects still remaining there

If a project of such magnitude isn’t hosting it’s own git and other infrastructure related to code development it isn’t worth using.

i'm not that extreme but if you host your software on something like github you're just not a proper free software gigachad. you end up being one of those open source niggers on the microsoft plantation, doing it for free, licensed with mit

However, I expect contributions will still drop markedly now that they're off GitHub.

oh no they won't get quite as many documentation typo fix pull requests, how will they ever manage
more seriously: i don't think most serious contributors will be significantly impeded by the choice in software forge

also zig not being discoverable isn't really that big of a problem, it's fairly notable (much to the chagrin of people forced to watch the shitlang cycle happen multiple times overlapped on top of each other in quick succession)

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Is anyone involved identified? "Tom Cubie" posts on CNX Software on behalf of Raxda Radxa sometimes.

At least two people:
1) Radxa Official account
2)项泽龙 (Support account - official as well)

In re "official radxa account" (Think pre-reeelon bluecheck), so anyone who has access to it in Radxa.

!!But!! It says the real name ID verification of the account holder (business accounts require your real name be displayed) is 汤亮, or Jason, Radxa's founder*. So, it is not out of the realm of possibility the founder had a melty instead of the wagecucks tech team... Which would be much funnier and news worthy to me.

(The orange @labeling shows it's an "certified official account").
Origin of verification: Commercial Wechat
Company: Radxa
Real name: Tang Liang


*The link to the original statement has been lost, but here is a quote, underlined in red, "Radxa's founder, Tang Liang (Jason)

https://atjason.com/519.html

https://ghostarchive.org/archive/iLPpB

 

[Rekeita's Kidneys]

I was watching this. And the guy mentions something about the charter that got me thinking.

Since generally they aren't supposed to, and generally try not to codify anything in the C standard that doesn't already exist in some kind of use in a compiler. It made me think about that new memory safe C compiler, and if anything could be implemented into the C standard around memory safety as the result of anything it does.

I haven't looked closely at what it does and if it does anything that isn't already in the C standard. But it's an interesting thought.

It would be nice not having rust trannies constantly saying C is inherently unsafe. Because that's what they all say. C code even if it is safe is inherently unsafe because it's C.

I feel bad for this niggas name. Fucking Bjorkus Dorkus. Brootal