Paleontology and Previous Life on Earth Sperging Thread

Yes, taxonomists are retarded (wolves, dogs, coyotes are all technically different species despite being able to interbreed). But humans are still one species, because we can all interbreed between eachother. Maybe several human subspecies exist, but this is pedantic and ultimately impossible to determine. Because it's a gradient game, being unable to determine what truly separates the American red foxes from the European red foxes.

There is neither coyote nor wolf, there is neither large nor small, there are neither pointed ears nor rounded ears: for ye are all one in Canis Genus.
Galatians 3:28
View attachment 3740980
All of this modern "humans are all the same" rhetoric is so laughable when compared to how we classify canines. I agree that a lot of taxonomy is retarded from what little a layman like me knows of it. But it's inarguable that you look at a coyote and a wolf and can point out differences in behavior and appearance. These differences arose absent of deliberate breeding by humans; it gets even funnier when you compare "humans are all da same and there is only one race, the human race" with domesticated dogs. A Great Dane and a Chihuahua are the same species yet have massive differences in behavior and appearance.

As a Floridian I'll also point out that the "Florida panther" is literally just a North American cougar that's a bit smaller to deal with the heat. It's no longer considered a subspecies even though people like to act like it is to drum up support for "conservation" because once scientists did some genetic testing they realized it is literally just a population of cougars that lives in Florida. It is considered "Critically Imperiled" even though the broader North American cougar is "Secure." One of the greatest threats to the Florida panther is actually a loss of genetic diversity since they are cut off from other cougar populations. Let nature take its course in that instance. I personally suspect there are way more than the alleged 120 Florida panthers left in the wild as people report seeing them pretty often, and far north of where they supposedly live. But that's a rant for another time.
 
Taxonomy is the most autistic field in the world and it's made me not want to pursue anything surrounding it because of the latent sperging. You have constant fights over classification over the stupidest shit, names being changed because someone doesn't think the latin is accurate enough, or more recently and stupidly because clown world, 'offensive' names being subtly or obviously changed. The most retarded of these I stumbled on recently is the attempt to change wandering jew to wandering dude, the dumbest, softest attempt at a joke I've seen and dumb in general because it depends on what version of a myth you're using as the historical precedent, and either way it's dumb. Yeah in this case not scientific name, and it's a plant, but my point applies to anything with nigro/negro in it in the latin name terms for one.

It really just feels like massive semantics just because they want to walk on eggshells. Somehow two different insects that act the same, look the same, are the same size, and are even located within the same area and can interbreed count as two different species because one has a slightly differently bent shape on the thorax that you have to use a microscope to see, yet humans with different skulls, hair, genetic composition, facial structure in general, endurance, immune systems, etc don't count. It flies in the face of all of the other shit in taxonomy and it makes the whole field look even weaker scientifically.
Exactly, without getting into race at all, if one beetle that's the same as another beetle except it has spots on it counts as a new species, so should a brunette count as a different species than a blonde.

When it comes down to it, due to things like ring species, you just have to define the categories according to what's useful, but it has huge impacts when it comes to things like measuring species extinction because saying "sIx MiLlIoN sPeCiEs dEaD eVeRy yEaR!" sounds alarming until you realize it's a guess and a guess based on slightly different types of the same ant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Toolbox and cactus
Epiphyton_sp.jpg
Here's a challenge for kiwitards : what do these tiny bush-like fossils represent ?
 
One of my friends is convinced that paleontologists are motivated to make new "discoveries" on little to no evidence to justify funding. idk how I feel about it but I find this conspiracy theory intriguing. I, as a layman, do lean in the direction of "a lot of these dinos that are classified as different are probably the same." A well-known example of this is pachycephalosaurus vs stygimoloch, where some scientists hold that stygi is a juvenile pachy. Also things like finding a tooth and a finger bone and declaring it to be a newly discovered organism.

I also believe this to be true. Too many times I've read that such and such dinosaur was warm blooded and hunted in packs and gave live birth and what they ate and how they lived. Then I see that the only fossils are like a couple vertebrae. I don't see how you can see this and not know that they are just making shit up.

Nobody can call them out on their bullshit except other paleontologists and they aren't going to call their colleague a liar because they are going to do the same thing when they find a couple of bones.

I feel the same way about space discoveries. "I discovered a new planet. It is made of diamonds and it rains lava and the volcanoes spew out ice. Also I'm pretty sure there could be life." You look up an image of this new planet and it's just a dot. The scientists can tell all that by just looking at a dot, ok. "James Webb is so powerful that it can see the beginning of the universe." Does anyone ask them to prove it? No, we just believe them.

Probably I'm just retarded though.
 
I also believe this to be true. Too many times I've read that such and such dinosaur was warm blooded and hunted in packs and gave live birth and what they ate and how they lived. Then I see that the only fossils are like a couple vertebrae. I don't see how you can see this and not know that they are just making shit up.

Nobody can call them out on their bullshit except other paleontologists and they aren't going to call their colleague a liar because they are going to do the same thing when they find a couple of bones.

I feel the same way about space discoveries. "I discovered a new planet. It is made of diamonds and it rains lava and the volcanoes spew out ice. Also I'm pretty sure there could be life." You look up an image of this new planet and it's just a dot. The scientists can tell all that by just looking at a dot, ok. "James Webb is so powerful that it can see the beginning of the universe." Does anyone ask them to prove it? No, we just believe them.

Probably I'm just retarded though.
The way astronomy works is you point a spectroscope at a dot of light and it breaks it down into light of different colors, telling us what elements are in that planet. Based on what we know of geology and planet/star formation, we can then make assumptions about what sort of processes must be at work on that planet.

But there's obviously a ton of guesswork there on something we can't even see and never will see.
 
I also believe this to be true. Too many times I've read that such and such dinosaur was warm blooded and hunted in packs and gave live birth and what they ate and how they lived. Then I see that the only fossils are like a couple vertebrae. I don't see how you can see this and not know that they are just making shit up.

Nobody can call them out on their bullshit except other paleontologists and they aren't going to call their colleague a liar because they are going to do the same thing when they find a couple of bones.

I feel the same way about space discoveries. "I discovered a new planet. It is made of diamonds and it rains lava and the volcanoes spew out ice. Also I'm pretty sure there could be life." You look up an image of this new planet and it's just a dot. The scientists can tell all that by just looking at a dot, ok. "James Webb is so powerful that it can see the beginning of the universe." Does anyone ask them to prove it? No, we just believe them.

Probably I'm just retarded though.
A lot of it is speculation or deduced by assuming a similarity with modern day equivalents, but some other stuff is actually genuine, as crazy as it may seem. I have a few examples coming from paleobotany. First of all, basic morphology of the leaves is already a good indicator for a lot of things. If they are small and scale-like, or stubby and chubby, then it's very likely that the plant was adapted to very hot climates, making it xerophytic. If they have an extended leaf tip (a "drip-tip"), then they lived under high rainfall. If the leaves are often found in dense accumulations representing leaf mats, and if the leaves are entire (not too weathered), then they may have been shed naturally, making the plant deciduous.
Other organs can also give plenty of details on the plants, such as how they reproduced, how tall they were, what kind of other organisms they interacted with, etc... Sometimes you can even have exceptional finds like an entire plant (Antarcticycas) or an accumulation of a single taxon in certain areas, indicating large monotypic communities (Equisetum columnare, a shit of Sphenopsids)
It's generally a similar process with animals. There's a lot of unique finds that often allow the knowledge of X or Y animal to go further than "small quadruped herbivore" or "planktonic organism", ranging from small dinosaurs preserved inside of their former burrows to small aquatic nodosaurs with fishes inside of their stomachs as well as fossil embryos still in their eggs, ichthyosaurs giving live birth and mass accumulations of coprolites from a single species.

A lot of informations like this are generally well-detailed in the papers describing the species, and you can get a solid grasp of why the paleontologist think like this, but since most paleontology "fans" are NIGGERS that only have a surface-level understanding of science, they read about it in Wikipedia or on some blog and take it as gospel without attempting to understand what it means.
On top of that, a lot of the fucking redditors you see out there are massive fans of speculation and will take every single new theory (credible or not) as fact to get the chance of going "GUYS do you know that X may have been XXXXX ? WOW so interesting i can't believe that !". Just look at when some dudes announced a proposal to split Tyrannosaurus rex into several species ; that paper's conclusions were not followed by anyone and it was pretty much moot but for several weeks you had every redditor screaming about it.

TL ; DR : don't be a redditor that assumes every theory as fact and read the OG papers, they may be chonky but they explain fairly well the reasoning behind certain theories
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lowlife Adventures
The way astronomy works is you point a spectroscope at a dot of light and it breaks it down into light of different colors, telling us what elements are in that planet. Based on what we know of geology and planet/star formation, we can then make assumptions about what sort of processes must be at work on that planet.

But there's obviously a ton of guesswork there on something we can't even see and never will see.
You can decide the general make up of a planet, perhaps determine if it could potentially support life depending on how far it is from it's star, but beyond that I feel like a lot of what's been said about a lot of far away bodies within the last few years, few decades even will be looked back on like what was just spitballed about what animals could have come from dino bones way early on in paleontology. Stuff like the planet that has diamond rain comes to mind as shit that will not be proven.
 
Allow me to introduce you to Milo. He recently graduated and got really big on TikTok debunking archeology facts.
He is also on Youtube where he has a series called Awful Archaeology. Episode 6 was on the Baghdad Battery.
Having Milo in my playlist lead me to seeing a video by Artifactually Speaking watching Milo's Baghdad battery video. And he rips apart everything Milo got wrong seeing as he's a professor and this is his area of expertise. But so respectfully..

So anyway that all leads up to Milo, reacting to the professor reacting him and it's just all so wholesome. Milo trying not to be a fanboy and seriously being humble. I think this kid is going to go far, honestly. He is the Indiana Jones version of Gen Z and younger for sure! (It'll make more sense once you watch the video.)

If this is the wrong place I apologize, but to be fair I don't know what Milo's specialty is?
Edit 2: I retract the apology, we are life on earth too.
Apologies for the thread necro but I honestly didn't know where else to put this.

1.4 Million Subscriber Special - (PHASE 3 LAUNCH)

 
I also believe this to be true. Too many times I've read that such and such dinosaur was warm blooded and hunted in packs and gave live birth and what they ate and how they lived. Then I see that the only fossils are like a couple vertebrae. I don't see how you can see this and not know that they are just making shit up.
It's still an unsettled and controversial topic. We only know beyond a doubt that birds are warm-blooded and certain dinosaurs shared physical traits and/or were the ancestors of modern birds, but it's not clear how far back that trait goes. Some dinosaurs just don't make sense if they weren't warm-blooded but what exactly that means is not certain - did they have a metabolism like modern birds or something in between?

The climate was a lot warmer overall during the Mesozoic as well, which complicates things further since cold-blooded species could be a lot more active in those temperatures. However there are dinosaurs that have been discovered in parts of the world that would have had a cold climate in which cold-blooded reptile species can't survive.

On top of that only a very small percentage of dinosaurs died in conditions that allowed their remains to form into fossils.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AMHOLIO
It's still an unsettled and controversial topic. We only know beyond a doubt that birds are warm-blooded and certain dinosaurs shared physical traits and/or were the ancestors of modern birds, but it's not clear how far back that trait goes. Some dinosaurs just don't make sense if they weren't warm-blooded but what exactly that means is not certain - did they have a metabolism like modern birds or something in between?

The climate was a lot warmer overall during the Mesozoic as well, which complicates things further since cold-blooded species could be a lot more active in those temperatures. However there are dinosaurs that have been discovered in parts of the world that would have had a cold climate in which cold-blooded reptile species can't survive.

On top of that only a very small percentage of dinosaurs died in conditions that allowed their remains to form into fossils.
For what it's worth, I watched a documentary a ways back about crocodillians. The fourth heart ventricle of crocodiles is inactive, which makes them cold blooded, but it's still there. But research was showing that when that inactive fourth ventricle was surgically removed, the crocodile's digestive process was massively slowed and impaired. Further examination suggested that the fourth ventricle is activated when it needs to be, to supply more blood to the digestive system.

I know that dinosaurs are much closer to birds than crocodiles, but it's an interesting thing to ponder. Who's to say that at least some dinosaurs could switch off certain functions once they reached a size/age? Sauropods weren't big elephants, everything about their engineering was bizarre.
 
Exactly, without getting into race at all, if one beetle that's the same as another beetle except it has spots on it counts as a new species, so should a brunette count as a different species than a blonde
Those beetles would be the same species if they can reproduce together and create viable offspring. Otherwise one would be a variant or subspecies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AMHOLIO
Back