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What are your expectations for the EU5 release?

  • Total voters
    83
  • Poll closed .
Ancient Pioneer said:
Sun Tzu isn't that impressive, its just vague philosophical stuff regarding the military and its borderline useless "the clever fighter wins without fighting".... ok? How exactly does one "win without fighting" for the rest of the dunces in the class? The Strategikon, Taktika, and particularly Praecepta Militaria are field operations and tactical manuals which demonstrate all the basic bitch stuff outlined in Sun Tzu but in concrete demonstrable examples. The Praecepta Militaria is probably the book for understanding how Medieval warfare worked and it was formulated at the behest of one of, if not the greatest general Byzantium ever had: Nikephorus II Phocas.
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Sun Tzu works makes much more sense when you realise it's written for bratty Chinese nobility who needs their ego assauged in order to learn at least some theoretical military science.
 
Kane Lives said:
Sun Tzu works makes much more sense when you realise it's written for bratty Chinese nobility who needs their ego assauged in order to learn at least some theoretical military science.
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Also, if it want specific advice, the 36 Strategems are there. People slag off the Art of War for being obvious and simple, but it's clear many commanders, historical and modern, do basically everything it tells you not to, and fail the most basic for habits. Like all aphorisms (as it's fundementally a collection of them relating to military matters) the value is in remembering and applying them.
 
I dont blame the Chinese for looking inward so much. They went on to explore the earth and they only found indians, goat fuckers and then they landed in Africa...imagine seeing niggers for the first time. Not that American nigger but the pure blooded nigger of Somalia or Kenya. Going down the coast of Africa must have been like descending into hell itself."Your imperial majesty, I have traveled as far west as man can travel. There is nothing out there but endless darkness and savagery."
 
LovisXVI said:
Also, if it want specific advice, the 36 Strategems are there. People slag off the Art of War for being obvious and simple, but it's clear many commanders, historical and modern, do basically everything it tells you not to, and fail the most basic for habits. Like all aphorisms (as it's fundementally a collection of them relating to military matters) the value is in remembering and applying them.
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The issue with Art of War is that any reasonably intelligent person suitable for command will come to the conclusions in it naturally and those that need Art of War will never be suitable for command no matter how much material is given to them.
 
Ancient Pioneer said:
The issue with Art of War is that any reasonably intelligent person suitable for command will come to the conclusions in it naturally and those that need Art of War will never be suitable for command no matter how much material is given to them.
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Being smart doesn’t mean you automatically understand warfare. It isn’t something you just “figure out” by being clever, it’s built on experience, patterns, and lessons paid in blood. The Art of War is 2500 years old. Writing a manual is also not something that just spawn out of nowhere, it needs a framework to develop. We didn't get something comparable in Europe until hundreds of years later.
 
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Sun Tzu is great because it is foundational, simple and direct. As Saint Terry said "A idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity."

The Art of War is not the be all end all of military stratagems and theories, but it is so simple and basic it is timeless and always relevant.
 
Imam Shamil said:
U guys think EU5 is gunna have a good release?
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I think the 5 stars are overly optimistic and the 2 and bellow are overly pessimistic. My vote is on 4 stars, it will have problems but it won't be enough to ruin the fun and it will be popular enough for some really cool mods. We will see who is right, the 3s or the 4s.
 
Slur Generator said:
I think the 5 stars are overly optimistic and the 2 and bellow are overly pessimistic. My vote is on 4 stars, it will have problems but it won't be enough to ruin the fun and it will be popular enough for some really cool mods. We will see who is right, the 3s or the 4s.
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Im honestly of the opinion that the best we can hope for is a 4.5/5 but anything in the 3.75-4.25 range is most likely
 
Whatever the release is going to be like, it nevertheless appears to be the most mechanically solid paradox game ever made which is most important. Bugs can get fixed, flavor can be added, things can get tweaked and balanced. But if it's at the core a piece of shit like Vic 3 or shallow and hollow like CK3 on launch, that is a much bigger problem.
 
Blackstar said:
Whatever the release is going to be like, it nevertheless appears to be the most mechanically solid paradox game ever made which is most important. Bugs can get fixed, flavor can be added, things can get tweaked and balanced. But if it's at the core a piece of shit like Vic 3 or shallow and hollow like CK3 on launch, that is a much bigger problem.
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The addition of agnostic frameworks for mechanics, like situations and IOs, alone points towards it being much more robust and a design philosophy for broadly applicable additions, rather than discrete and proprietary regional mechanics that never get used again, like in CK3.
 
LovisXVI said:
Size of ship doesn't even indicate advancement, just the wealth of the manufacturer,
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Absolutely and very specifically wrong. For a long time their naval technology was head and shoulders ahead of the world, until they let it stagnate and rot away because simply there there were no reason for them to keep doomfleets around with no credible opponents to fight, no sea trade to protect and no impetus for exploration.

You also completely failed to understand just how important that inward isolation is to understanding everything China related. They had everything military related, the numbers, the gear, the technology, the science behind it, the philosophy, the logistics, etc. and no one to use it, except on other Chinese in civil wars or petty border wars where the outcome was practically irrelevant anyway. They were in an equilibrium position for most of their written history, that did not change at all until the industrial revolution. Also, tangentially related, but this kind of equilibrium state is why they never underwent an industrial revolution themselves, despite having all the components and groundwork done centuries before


General Emílio Médici said:
Sun Tzu is great because it is foundational, simple and direct. As Saint Terry said "A idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity."

The Art of War is not the be all end all of military stratagems and theories, but it is so simple and basic it is timeless and always relevant.
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I brought it up not only because its the most well-known out of a gorillion Chinese writings on warfare, but because its the most introductory one of them too. Its not some kind of sekrit master plan unbeatable technique acquired by 200 years of cultivating chi and drinking mercury under the right moon phases. It is the fundamentals that you should never fuck up.
 
A random street in Duluth said:
For a long time their naval technology was head and shoulders ahead of the world,
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A random street in Duluth said:
They had everything military related, the numbers, the gear, the technology, the science behind it, the philosophy, the logistics, etc.
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A random street in Duluth said:
this kind of equilibrium state is why they never underwent an industrial revolution themselves, despite having all the components and groundwork done centuries before
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The Playmaker is streaming right now discussing problems with the late game. Getting absolutism and being able to conquer more land at once has one big downside, the antagonism isn't reduced as was in EU4 with higher admin efficiency allowing you to conquer more land for less AE. So by the 1700s you can conquer just as much without getting a coalition as you could in 1337, and because of lands getting more developed over time you actually can conquer less without a coalition. Hopefully this gets balanced.
 
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