Prepping - It's not always about the immediate collapse of society

[Ivan Shatov]

Alright Kiwis, this Corona Virus has me thinking. What happens when you have to evacuate, what happens to all your supplies?

I live in a dense urban area, during a pandemic I would want to be anywhere but here. Maybe stocking up on all these MREs wasn't the best idea, carrying a year's worth of food with me to a remote location might be hard. Not sure how I'd transport the armory, the ammo alone weighs too much for my car. I know fresh water is at a premium, but it's 8lbs a gallon - how am I going to carry even a few days worth any distance if I need to suddenly decamp?

A lot of us have enjoyed the thought of riding out race riots / financial collapse / terrorist incursions in our own home. But I'm looking at this situation and thinking my community is a bad place to be. It's early, maybe the Wu Flu peters out before it becomes serious. But maybe it doesn't. What can you do to maximize your chances of survival in situations like this, where you know the lethality of the disease and have some time to scramble? Where do you establish your safe zone?

For me, I'm looking at setting up with a bunker somewhere remote. I think I'm disciplined enough to keep stocks up year over year and do regular maintenance to ensure the place stays secure. This could mean an arid environment, this could mean a place in the mountains, this could mean a warehouse in an economically-depressed city (there's still great deals to be had in Detroit.) I could just divvy up supplies between the two locations and manage it like a vacation property.

Has the thought of a pandemic changed your thoughts on prepping? Are you thinking you're still going to shelter in place until it blows over?

 

[Duke Nukem]

It's all a waste of time and money and the government is good and will "take care of" us when bad shit comes our way, instead of fucking off into their bunkers and/or becoming the oppressors a la Mad Max Lord Humungus style. /sarcasm/

The first rule though, in all seriousness, is don't go on National Geographic to advertise your preps to people.

And bring one more thing:

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

I think being ready for short term small emergencies or set backs is something everyone should do. By this I mean stuff like having first aid kit, what you need for blackout, some canned or dry food and money tucked away. So nothing terribly complicated nor extensive, just basic stuff that allows you get trough short term, give space figure out long term plan or get help.

If you live far away from help and/or area with decent likelyhood for natural disaster, you need to be prebared to handle few days or even few weeks on your own, and/or method get away from there easily. What that means depends so much of the environment, weather patterns and likely issues that there is no single plan to follow. Do you need to be ready for heat or cold, floods, storms or earthquekes, car, boat or bike? What you need or don't are so different depending on so many variables that only real advice is be realistic about your environment and abilities.

That to be said being ready for bad things to happen should not get in way of living normal lives. Closet space should mostly for daily needs, not for disasters that might never happen. You will never be able plan for every outcome nor situation, and many times just reacting as stuff goes down will be plenty enough. So have common sense both ways, have some basic stuff ready for likely issues but don't over do it.

 

[PowersOfPowers]

First rule is do it quietly. You don't need to be ultra secret and order things behind a VPN and have things shipped to a neighbor, but you shouldn't tell anyone except the most essential family members that you trust (should pretty much exclusively be limited to spouse and maybe children).

Second thing is unless you have tons of money, the easiest way to do it is to just do it as a second home/vacation spot that happens to be stocked properly. A cabin out in the woods is a great option, very affordable and even if it doesn't have a basement or cellar you can still use the attic or just bury supplies on the property. That way friends and family that you wouldn't necessarily trust to know about your plans can still know the location without thinking anything of it.

Don't just think Ammo, Food, and Water. Think tools and supplies. Axes and Hatchets, Saws, Shovels, Knives. Stocks of oil and sharpeners and other such things to keep your tools in shape. Do you have a wood stove? gas? think about duplicates at minimum for nearly anything related to the above.

One of the least thought about things is how are you moving from your main home to your B home? in any kind of serious event where you'd want to go to the B home, traveling will be very hard in the first 72 hours, unless you know and leave immediately. Unless you are a bachelor, it may not be practicable to leave your A home at all. A plan to ride out whatever is happening at your A home is essential. You can turn the average suburban home into quite the fortress with nothing more than sandbags, wood, and chicken wire. If you lurk on /K/, occasionally people will post the various US Army manuals about these kinds of scenarios. will tell you point by point how to secure a house, what the most important things are, etc.

Biggest single thing is practice. Drive your escape route at least twice a year, hike it at least once a year. Practice filling sandbags, putting up wood/chicken wire. Go to the range and practice your aim. Ideally under time stress. See if you have a 3 gun match nearby. Practice your first aid skills, take classes if possible. Know what to do and when to do it.

 

[SpEd Kaczynski]

OP, you definitely don't want a warehouse in Detroit, I don't care how cheap it is. I've lived in Detroit and I still regularly visit friends and relatives who still live there and it's the last place you want to be when the SHTF.

 

[Ivan Shatov]

OP, you definitely don't want a warehouse in Detroit, I don't care how cheap it is. I've lived in Detroit and I still regularly visit friends and relatives who still live there and it's the last place you want to be when the SHTF.

Yeah Detroit is a hell hole. I'm trying to avoid advertising where I'm actually thinking about, not looking to create the Kiwi Safe Zone.

That said, in terms of equipment: what would be the best form of long-distance communication? Assuming the Internet and cell coverage is gone, would people actually still use radios?

 

[Harvey Danger]

You're supposed to cache your supplies at your evac rendevous location, not at your home (if you live in an urban area). The only thing you keep at home is your bugout pack, man-portable or car-portable depending on your plan.

If you don't have a non-urban destination available to you, you're kind of screwed, regardless of your prep. Get friendly with some relatives who live out in the sticks, or buy half an acre of undeveloped land in a remote area to set up a cache. Rent a storage unit in a tiny rural town. Buy a beat-up truck or panel van, and mod it so you can live out of it for a while.

If you're serious about having an evac site, you're going to have to prep a relative's place or shell out a few thousand dollars for one of your own. Start by looking up vacant and rural land listings within your state. For example, if you're in Michigan, google "Michigan land for sale", pull up the first 5 search results on the page, and start filtering down to your budget. Here's an example for land below $15k in MI. (And like the above Kiwis said, stay the hell away from lots in Detroit.)

That said, in terms of equipment: what would be the best form of long-distance communication? Assuming the Internet and cell coverage is gone, would people actually still use radios?

There was a post about off-grid radios a while back, it's a good starting point.

 

[B. F. Bugleberry]

I move from slightly populated desert hell to unpopulated desert hell, to the ranch. Literally nothing changes.

Edit and Helpful Hint for Desert Dwellers: Its well known round these parts that in event of a major happening, the feds will pull the military (maybe 29 palms) and cordon off the Hoover dam. I also know a guy in some no name Arizona militia plans to shut down the Laughlin bridge to keep the Vegas and Cali hordes out. Davis Dam will also probably be blocked by feds. So if your bug out location is across the Colorado river, factor in nutty shenanigans and have multiple backup routes.

 

[A Cardboard Box]

Don't get caught in the initial evacuation. it's good to wait out the initial frantic abandonment of the city with your bug in gear. Even if it's just a few days. Not to mention it may not be feasible to bug out. You may have to bug in for the long haul. It isn't hard to stockpile food and water. Canned and dry goods are cheap, so is bottled water. Having a clean suit, a mask with some P100 filters, a month of food and water, and a blapper with some ammo isn't a bad idea no matter where you are. You can also add in some foldout solar panels or a dynamo if you want.

 

[???]

The most important thing you can do is make friends with your neighbors, both here and at your bugout location. Don't do stupid shit like start or continue (or escalate) feuds, because the first thing you do after the power goes out and the cops can't come is go for your guns.

You want to be on especially good terms with your landlord, tradesmen, mechanics, skilled medical workers, ham radio nerds, gunsmiths, and reservists. Reservists will share secrets over booze.

A basic stockpile is water, food, alcohol, fire-making equipment, a shotgun, a hunting rifle, and 10,000 rounds of ammo. Cheapest and longest lasting food you can store is coconut oil, wheat flour, and a few protein sources like powdered milk or peanut butter.

 

[SpEd Kaczynski]

People always talk about cans of Spam lasting forever but the cans all have expiration dates on them. So I called customer service one time and asked them about it. They told me that the Spam will last pretty much indefinitely as long as the can is not damaged and it is not subject to extreme temperatures. The Spam will be safe to eat and will retain it's nutritional value. They said they put an expiration date on it because after a certain amount of time in long term storage it will begin to change consistency and the flavor could also end up being off. But it will still (according to them at least) be safe to eat.

So years ago, every week when I go grocery shopping, I grab a can of Spam and add it to the pile in the basement. I probably have over 150 cans down there now. Even if in an emergency I don't eat it, it seems like a really good item to barter with. Like in a SHTF situation maybe I can trade a can of it to some starving sexy chick for a blowjob trade a can of it with a neighbor for a bunch of veggies they grew in their garden.

 

[Adampants]

I think prepping is a waste of time. I'd say having 2 to 3 weeks of food and a basic first kit will suffice. Unless you have an under ground bunker or property out in the middle of nowhere , its dumb. After 3 weeks many would die in a scenario where supply chains are gone.

 

[Ivan Shatov]

If you don't have a non-urban destination available to you, you're kind of screwed, regardless of your prep. Get friendly with some relatives who live out in the sticks, or buy half an acre of undeveloped land in a remote area to set up a cache. Rent a storage unit in a tiny rural town. Buy a beat-up truck or panel van, and mod it so you can live out of it for a while.

If you're serious about having an evac site, you're going to have to prep a relative's place or shell out a few thousand dollars for one of your own. Start by looking up vacant and rural land listings within your state. For example, if you're in Michigan, google "Michigan land for sale", pull up the first 5 search results on the page, and start filtering down to your budget. Here's an example for land below $15k in MI. (And like the above Kiwis said, stay the hell away from lots in Detroit.)

Thank you for the wonderful tips.

Yeah, I've been scouting out rural property for years. Even if I don't own something, I think I know where to go. Probably time to invest in that country home. The real concern for me is how do I get there, what are the ways in and out. It's hard finding something that's a) rural and b) connected to the highway system by more than one road. So I have to factor in how to get there other than in a car.

I move from slightly populated desert hell to unpopulated desert hell, to the ranch. Literally nothing changes.

Edit and Helpful Hint for Desert Dwellers: Its well known round these parts that in event of a major happening, the feds will pull the military (maybe 29 palms) and cordon off the Hoover dam. I also know a guy in some no name Arizona militia plans to shut down the Laughlin bridge to keep the Vegas and Cali hordes out. Davis Dam will also probably be blocked by feds. So if your bug out location is across the Colorado river, factor in nutty shenanigans and have multiple backup routes.

If they're waiting for the Californians to make it to Laughlin, they're screwed.

On the I-15, the area around Calico Ghost Town is pretty unstable, the mines ran close to the southern wall of the mountains. It would not be too hard to create a rockslide that leaves the road impassible, might be able to do it without explosives. Also, the ground running under the highway is unstable, it's not on a fault but there's a large cavern running below it. San Bernadino County has been trying to get some engineers on that since the 1940s. Someone could make a pretty big sinkhole with a little planning.

Desert Rats in Nevada would be quick to tell you the Cajon Pass is where to cut off the Californians. Taking a backhoe to the pavement is all it would take to stop the hordes from moving East, no one's going to cross hundreds of miles of desert on foot to get somewhere with water. Las Vegas would be screwed the moment the water table is infected, which would happen if the facilities on Lake Las Vegas break down. It's really no mans land until you hit Utah and Arizona.

Don't get caught in the initial evacuation. it's good to wait out the initial frantic abandonment of the city with your bug in gear. Even if it's just a few days. Not to mention it may not be feasible to bug out. You may have to bug in for the long haul. It isn't hard to stockpile food and water. Canned and dry goods are cheap, so is bottled water. Having a clean suit, a mask with some P100 filters, a month of food and water, and a blapper with some ammo isn't a bad idea no matter where you are. You can also add in some foldout solar panels or a dynamo if you want.

Yeah, good thoughts.

Unrelated to survival, I already have several go bags placed around me. Adding a suit and some filters would not be a big deal.

I think prepping is a waste of time. I'd say having 2 to 3 weeks of food and a basic first kit will suffice. Unless you have an under ground bunker or property out in the middle of nowhere , its dumb. After 3 weeks many would die in a scenario where supply chains are gone.

Always good to keep things in perspective.

It's funny, you set up something you hope you will never have to use just to feel safe. Because everything you always have to use is inherently frail.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I know fresh water is at a premium, but it's 8lbs a gallon - how am I going to carry even a few days worth any distance if I need to suddenly decamp?

Look into storing it safely. I never looked into it closely, but I think storing it in plastic bottles stored on cement (typical garage floor) causes contamination when stored long term.

Due to the amount of water needed to survive, you really need to figure out a constant source. Lifesaver water bottles/jerrycans are a decent water filter to have a couple of. You can gather small amounts of water simply by using plastic bags to either catch rain or get the condensation from leafy plants (put them around the leafs and secure watertight with elastic bands).

In a pinch, the water in the tank for flushing the toilet can help survival.

 

[Harvey Danger]

Yeah, I've been scouting out rural property for years. Even if I don't own something, I think I know where to go. Probably time to invest in that country home. The real concern for me is how do I get there, what are the ways in and out. It's hard finding something that's a) rural and b) connected to the highway system by more than one road. So I have to factor in how to get there other than in a car.

Sounds like you're already thinking on the right track, especially with the multiple bugout kits.

Spoiler: The multiple aspects of prepping

Generally, there are multiple components you should have in place for your emergency plan:

1. Where you'll likely be when SHTF.
2. Where you need to go
3. What transportation you have to get there
4. Alternative routes and transportation
5. What you can bring with you

#1 is likely your apartment in a city/suburb. Decide if it's remote enough to not be attacked, and if it's able to be fortified. If so, stay there; "bugging in" is much easier than traveling during a crisis. Otherwise, you need 2-5.

Ideally, #2 should be within 1 day's car ride of #1, or 3 day's walking distance. It should be outside the blast radius of a nuclear bomb going off in a nearby major city; generally that's 10-50 miles, but you can also run a simulation of bomb effects for your city. Rural is great, avoiding major roads is good, and having an off-grid water source is key. (There are long term water storage options, if you can commit to traveling and maintaining it once a year.)

#3 is never public transport, taxis, ride sharing, or a seat in your neighbor's car. It should be a vehicle you own and control, enough to carry everyone in your family plus gear and supplies for each of them. There are "survival bicycle" builds out there, if you're single and want to go that route, but really every American should at least own a $2k banger car that still runs. What you arrange for #3 determines what you can do for #5.

Your transport dictates your range and carrying capacity. Cars can get you 200-300 miles on a tank (always bring a jerry can of extra gas and a siphon kit with you), but roads will be quickly blocked. Bicycles will get you around 12-18 mph, depending on terrain and how good shape you're in. ATVs and electric scooters are other options, each with their own range and drawbacks. The average human adult walking speed is about 3 mph, but that's without your 40 lbs of gear.

#4 is basically knowing multiple evacuation routes. Always assume the main roads out will be impassable; know the side streets out, the alternative state/county roads if the highways are blocked, and 2-3 ways to approach your destination. Drive your evac route at least once, to get familiar with it. Carry detailed road maps of your state ($5 at any trucker stop or convenience store, updated every 4-5 years), and know how to read them.

Also, see if your vehicle can haul alternative transport like a motorcycle or bicycle with it, in case your main vehicle breaks down.

#5 is way too complicated to go into detail here, but there's a mindset relevant to #1-4 to follow. You should have multiple bugout kits:

man-portable: only what you can physically carry. The minimum survival kit you need to live. If you need to abandon your car and walk the last few miles, this is what you'll bring. And if it's over 40 lbs and you aren't in soldier shape, it's probably too much.​

​

car-portable: big gear and tools that aren't strictly necessary for survival, but are essential for camp. (Tent, tarps, sleeping gear, shovels, axes, extra ammo, etc) You can keep most of this in your trunk as emergency gear, and the rest gets tossed in there when needed.​

​

supplies: the classic "beans, bullets, and bullion". Stuff you don't need today, but will need in a few days and in the long term. These should be packaged up and ready to drop into your car. You don't want to be grabbing random things from multiple rooms to toss in a bag while the zombie apocalypse is happening. Food and water are the big concerns; everyone should have a couple gallons of water on hand anyway (rotate every 6 months), taking 60 seconds to haul them to the car could literally save lives. These are also the most likely to get left behind if you can't make it back home before evacuating.​

Break down your carrying capacity according to the options you have with #3, and have kits that handle each one. Every smaller transport option you downgrade to in an emergency will involve abandoning a larger kit the larger transport carried. So plan your gear appropriately, and be sure to have redundancies in the smaller kits so you don't have to break open larger kits to grab individual components during an emergency.

Basically, every emergency scenario below should be planned out, in order:

What if I have to leave my house?​

What if I have to leave my city without going back to my house first?​

What if I have to abandon my vehicle and its supplies?​

What if I have to survive with only the things I can carry? How far can I physically haul it in my current shape?​

What do I do once I arrive at my destination?​

How long can I stay there?​

Can I accomplish all of the above without any outside assistance or resources?​

Although I prepare for self-sufficiency, am I also prepared to live with, assist, and improve the community around me?​

You've probably considered a lot of this already, but I figured it's worth typing it all out in case there were some aspects people here haven't thought through yet.

 

[SpEd Kaczynski]

One thing that I've always believed is that we are not going to have some overnight collapse where everything quickly turns to shit. I think that the "collapse" is more of a long slow bumpy decline and has been going on for decades and will continue to go on for decades. People who ask "When do you think the US will collapse?" can't see the forest for the trees. The collapse is already here and we are living in it. Rome didn't collapse overnight either, it took generations.

As such, I try to look at things less like "how will I survive if there's a riot" and more like "how does one survive in a declining civilization?" So instead of looking for some land that I can bug out too, I am more interested in completely up and moving someplace more culturally and racially homogeneous where me and my descendants can continue to prosper for years to come even while the rest of western civilization heads down the path of slow decline.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Well considering the black death didnt kill Feudal europe I think we're good. That said my plan is to die like 99% of the human race failing that I'm planning to become a fuedal warlord/man at arms and make other people do the work for me in exchange for protection.

 

[Toxic Mango]

I'll make it brief; I have no idea where I can find an authority on what's good in a gas mask. I know some are better for biological filtering, while others are better for chemical filtering, and some have a bit of a wide coverage, but I couldn't tell you which ones are which to save my life.
I am not one to panic about the coronavirus thing, but I feel I might as well be on the safe side, therefore I need a mask for when I go on a flight later this month. Since it's for protection against a biological hazard, I'd like to know if there's any brands or specific series in a brand I should aim for.
So I hope somebody would be so polite as to grant me some knowledge on the topic, so I may know what to look for when going on a purchase hunt.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

(PS: this is my first thread here on KF, please show mercy)

 

[PumpkinSpiceBitchMeringue]

You could ask Secret Asshole, he's pretty knowledgeable as he often works with masks.

 

[Toxic Mango]

You could ask Secret Asshole, he's pretty knowledgeable as he often works with masks.

At the risk of appearing retarded, I don't seem to be able to message him or write on his profile. Is there something I need to do, before I can message people/write on their profile?