Programming thread

[Creative Username]

I'm planning to switch to Linux Mint because Windows is living proof we need Total Pajeet Death right now. I assume that distro is fine for coding purposes?

about as fine as any other, once you run sudo apt install gcc
debian/ubuntu-derived distros do ship the headers for libraries separately from the libraries themselves. this isn't what certain other distros do and as a result it means you won't be able to build programs with every library on your system out of the gate. you will just have to install a dev package first, which is ridiculously easy

 

[Private Tag Reporter]

Zig has nice C interop - Julia has that.

I was mistakenly under the impression Julia was a Lisp at the time I wrote this. My bad. In any case, a bunch of Lisp platforms and descendants have really nice C interop.

I want to learn the fundamentals of coding and computer science. Im not intending on getting a coding job or making an app etc. I just want to make experimental logic programs and other weird shit. I want to learn C because its the simplest(as in least abstracted and pajeet-ified) language and it allows me to learn the fundamentals of how the computer actually works.

There is an (admittedly slow) thread for beginners if you want to ask your questions in there. I've been meaning to write a tutorial for a while, but haven't gotten around to it as of yet.

As for distro/language/editor/$whatever, it doesn't matter. They're all tools, and they're all ultimately equivalent in the end, so pick one you prefer. You can compute anything with any language any way, it's just more or less painful. C is beautiful because it's simple, but because it's simple there are some things you'll have to do manually if you want to do certain things, like the obvious memory management, but also polymorphism, functional programming, string manipulation, etc.

I will probably get flamed for recommending Go, but syntactically it's relatively similar to C, has excellent learning materials written about it and is mostly not retarded, unlike say, JS. Go runs on a memory managed platform though, so that's something against it if you really want to fuck around with memory management. If you wanted something even easier to learn, Lua would be my next recommendation on the list of "simple but slightly more abstracted" languages, because it has a nice platform and the table is a really nice and simple data structure, and you can read the entire language specification in an afternoon.

 

[Creative Username]

lua is just a scheme from a parallel universe where we never discovered the cons cell so we had to make do with hash tables and pascal-like syntax

 

[TroonsDid911]

@Private Tag Reporter Im sure you are going to be called a niggerfaggot for daring to recommend a "nu-language" like Go but I genuinely appreciate your answer. This is why I risked being called a niggerfaggot for daring to ask how to learn coding in this thread. Thankfully the users of this thread are actually useful and intelligent unlike the entirety of A&N.

 

[Aidan]

So is Rust astroturfed and if so, why do you think that is? I don't understand why Rust has so much buzz around it from the top but the only people I have seen be interested in using it personally are doing it to virtue signal and they're always wanting to rewrite something that already exists. I haven't seen people use it as their preferred language for writing their own programs, usually that's C++, C#, Java, or Python anecdotally. It's peculiar.

 

[Creative Username]

Thankfully the users of this thread are actually useful and intelligent unlike the entirety of A&N.

as a regular here, i would like to say that's somewhat
at the very least i'm useless, half of us are retarded, and the other half are too smart for their own good

So is Rust astroturfed and if so, why do you think that is? I don't understand why Rust has so much buzz around it from the top but the only people I have seen be interested in using it personally are doing it to virtue signal and they're always wanting to rewrite something that already exists. I haven't seen people use it as their preferred language for writing their own programs, usually that's C++, C#, Java, or Python anecdotally. It's peculiar.

hint: you can pretty much get about 80% of rust's memory safety guarantees in C++ just by always using smart pointers and RAII
rust is great if you want something like C++, but with a really strict compiler, and syntax that's somehow less comprehensible than C++ (good job on that one trannies, i'm not sure even larry wall could do it)
i feel like rust is today's java, which means it seems like the panacea for all programming problems, but everybody will absolutely hate it in a few years after its problems become more obvious

 

[Aidan]

I am asking if its popularity is artificial, nothing about the language itself.

 

[One Angry Computer]

I am asking if its popularity is artificial, nothing about the language itself.

It's popular because it allows trannies and pajeets to not be arsed with making a good garbage collector in their software, deciding that having a memory safe language is better than just being careful with C++.

Most of the bugs and exploits are bad memory management in big projects, and you gotta ask why is it like that? I'd say it's laziness or over crunched workers, that's mostly why.

 

[Goose the Redeemer]

I'd like to throw Processing in. Just like Python, it was created to teach programming but with a focus on graphics/"visual art". The site has a lot of tutorials/examples (some video, some text), though most of them are Processing/Java specific. It's not really "computer science fundamentals" and I don't know how good the tutorials are for total beginners, but it's something that's different.

I also think that this thing is neat; It's not just a video of the guy talking to a whiteboard, a some points there's an editor that you can play with and there's a little exercise between each "lesson".

 

[Creative Username]

Just like Python, it was created to teach programming

i feel like python was less explicitly designed for cs teaching than processing was
i'm not saying python didn't have teaching in mind while it was being designed, but i feel like it wasn't put as high on the list as processing had it

also processing isn't really a language, it's more of a glorified java library with an easy-to-get-started ide

 

[Goose the Redeemer]

i feel like python was less explicitly designed for cs teaching than processing was
i'm not saying python didn't have teaching in mind while it was being designed, but i feel like it wasn't put as high on the list as processing had it

Maybe I'm wrong about that, (I probably am, I can't remember/find where I read that). Whenever I write Python, it certainly feels like a teaching language that has just had stuff added to it over the years, especially considering that a lot of the libraries are actually written in C.

also processing isn't really a language, it's more of a glorified java library with an easy-to-get-started ide

I don't really know Java (the little that I do know came from the Processing site) so I don't know how much of Processing is regular Java vs the library. I just thought I'd mention it because drawing shapes and stuff is more "engaging" to some than the typical hello world/calculator programs, even if it isn't it's own language properly.

 

[Creative Username]

I don't really know Java (the little that I do know came from the Processing site) so I don't know how much of Processing is regular Java vs the library.

As far as I know, Processing is 99% Java.

I just thought I'd mention it because drawing shapes and stuff is more "engaging" to some than the typical hello world/calculator programs, even if it isn't it's own language properly.

And even though it might not be a language, the functions that let you draw on the screen (and without having to go through GUI toolkit callback hell or having to deal with anything else like that) are definitely incredibly valuable. Libraries like that are incredibly nice, because I imagine many beginner programmers quit (and start thinking the worst thing a beginning programmer can think: "I can't program") when they get to day #17 and they don't even have a little guy they can move around with the arrow keys.

 

[WielkiWapiesz2137]

So is Rust astroturfed and if so, why do you think that is? I don't understand why Rust has so much buzz around it from the top but the only people I have seen be interested in using it personally are doing it to virtue signal and they're always wanting to rewrite something that already exists. I haven't seen people use it as their preferred language for writing their own programs, usually that's C++, C#, Java, or Python anecdotally. It's peculiar.

There is clearly a lobby for it otherwise gubermint wouldn't endorse it, however i have no idea why it exists. Maybe they genuinely drank the rust memory safety kool-aid or maybe some glowniggers are counting on rust's retarded NPM like package manager model albeit one would think that any serious rust deployment would use packages available in the distribution repos instead of pulling them from cargo.

 

[306h4Ge5eJUJ]

I am asking if its popularity is artificial, nothing about the language itself.

It had the backing of Mozilla early on, similar to how Go was pushed by Google, so somewhat artificial. But a lot of language popularity in general is just lucky timing, and people are really sick of C and especially C++ since "just don't write bugs lol" clearly hasn't been working for the last 40 years. Kinda how Python ended up displacing Perl despite not being particularly amazing itself, although Perl obviously was way less entrenched.

 

[unleashthefreak]

I want to learn C because its the simplest(as in least abstracted and pajeet-ified) language and it allows me to learn the fundamentals of how the computer actually works.

This is actually one of the few good uses of C, but I think something modern like Zig (if you insist on manual memory management) is better. At least ensure you use C23 or whatever the latest is.

Are there any sites / books / videos etc. you would recommend for a person who has only ever coded an HTML webpage as a school project?

Pick a simple task and complete it, i.e. creating a "Pixel Buffer Tetris", or basic CLI games (poker, etc.). Many of the books you will see have quite low information density, but SICP is good, but perhaps wait a bit to learn the basics.

My preference is for someone who actually explains the concept vs youtube niggers who just tell you to make some code without explaining what an Array or a Function actually is.

You are a distinguished White Man and this one judgement alone ensures you will succeed.

i have no idea why it exists.

Chesterton's fence. Are you really criticizing something you claim to not understand?

 

[Kosher Dill]

So is Rust astroturfed and if so, why do you think that is? I don't understand why Rust has so much buzz around it from the top

I don't know if "astroturfed" is the right word - I think everyone promoting it is sincere in their own way. It's just that they have many reasons, most of which are not "This is the best tool for the specific job I'm working on".
The idea of a "memory-safe C subset or C-alike" has been the holy grail for ages, and you get some people who really think this is it.
Then you have the troons who just like courting drama and inserting themselves into things.
And then you have the suits who dream of a language powerful enough to be useful but childproof enough to let pajeets or AIs use unsupervised.

 

[Creative Username]

something modern like Zig

trigger warning: insane screaming
I HATE MODERN RETARD GAY FAGGOT NIGGER COMPILERS I HATE MODERN GAY NIGGER RETARD TRANNY COMPILER
I HATE COMPILER WHEN IT HAS THE NAME "MODERN" WHICH MEANS GAY TRANNY NIGGER RETARDATION

I HATE STUPID COMPILER TOOLCHAINS THAT REJECT YOUR PROGRAM AND TELL YOU HOW YOU USED AN UNUSED VARIABLE OR THE WRONG KIND OF INDENTATION AND THAT'S BAD BECAUSE LE REASONS AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD​

I HATE BIG DUMB COMPILER THAT PEOPLE SAY "MODERN" I LOVE WHEN I RUN PROGRAM ON MY PROGRAM AND IT MAKES ANOTHER PROGRAM OR TELLS ME MY PROGRAM IS IRRECOVERABLY ILL-FORMED INSTEAD OF ALSO DOING A BUNCH OF STUPID RETARD SHIT​

At least ensure you use C23 or whatever the latest is.

it just gives you a couple of convenience features all you need is c99 or maybe c11 if you want standardized threading semantics or whatever

I don't know if "astroturfed" is the right word - I think everyone promoting it is sincere in their own way. It's just that they have many reasons, most of which are not "This is the best tool for the specific job I'm working on".
The idea of a "memory-safe C subset or C-alike" has been the holy grail for ages, and you get some people who really think this is it.
Then you have the troons who just like courting drama and inserting themselves into things.
And then you have the suits who dream of a language powerful enough to be useful but childproof enough to let pajeets or AIs use unsupervised.

it's the hot new language that's going to solve all the problems in computing caused by those stinky old languages nobody likes, ever since they stopped being the hot new language

 

[GhastlyGhost]

Chesterton's fence. Are you really criticizing something you claim to not understand?

Maybe I'm retarded, but I'm 100% sure he's talking about the Rust lobby, not Rust. The argument for Rust's existence is pretty clear, even if the execution is naff. Faggots lobbying for it to the government doesn't make a lick of sense considering it's not even standardized yet.

 

[Goose the Redeemer]

YOU USED AN UNUSED VARIABLE

If you used it, how can it be unused?

At least ensure you use C23 or whatever the latest is.

According to this table, that will be a problem for anyone using Windows. There's no C11 table, but considering how long it took for MSVC to support C99 (VS 2013?), I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't even got C11 done yet.

(you can tell that C99 is the best version because it has the biggest number)

 

[unleashthefreak]

trigger warning: insane screaming

I think you need more cornsyrup-fried bug treats !
That is how I feel using python though, I have to temporarily reconfigure my IDE because my SANE AND NORMAL indentation I use normally makes python refuse to run my files. Semantic whitespace should be prohibited... these pyople have disturbed souls.

it just gives you a couple of convenience features all you need is c99 or maybe c11 if you want standardized threading semantics or whatever

Probably true, but I think the (small) reduction of friction will be nice for a real beginner. Things such as "True" "False" not existing (only as macros) in C11 may be confusing or unpleasant.

talking about the Rust lobby, not Rust

If he thinks there are good things about it, that would explain why da gubermint/"lobby" endorses it.

that will be a problem for anyone using Windows

You can use GCC on windows (but probably not for a beginner).
But that graph is harrowing— I had no idea the sheer magnitude of MSVC retardation.