Programming thread

[Creative Username]

Edit: The user above me will one day develop severe carpal tunnel

do you know what the foot pedals are for, stalker?

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

yes you can use whatever you want and a fancy downstream emacs probably won't prevent you from doing anything
but i just personally really prefer to use vanilla shit whenever possible
you can use whatever tricked out bullshit you want but i avoid such things because they seem to sometimes violently implode due to their nature

OK, now that you've explained I get it. Neovim + LazyVim wasn't letting me edit a certain type of build file earlier for some inexplicable reason and I tried starting a thread on r/neovim (deleted for "low effort") and seeking help on Discord as well but the only person who answered was an unhelpful faggot who didn't guide me towards any solution. I reinstalled Vim and my reasonably extensive customizations for that reason and it can be my fallback editor for Emacs just like it was for Neovim.

If you like vim, I'm sure you would like doom emacs. It provides you a few helpful macros for your config (e.g. editing keymaps), but it's pretty close to vanilla otherwise (i.e. nothing I can see violently imploding). It's known for loading very quickly too.

I've looked at both Doom Emacs and Spacemacs and concluded I want to just do things the Emacs way rather than in some split-up way where I'm doing Vim most of the time and Emacs for whatever residue isn't covered by Evil and associated packages. I never enabled Vi mode for any of the shells I've ever used or tmux so what that means is now I'm going to be doing things the same way everywhere.

(Also startup time is more or less unimportant if you use emacs -d and emacsclient and just stay in Emacs all day)

 

[y a t s]

I've looked at both Doom Emacs and Spacemacs and concluded I want to just do things the Emacs way rather than in some split-up way where I'm doing Vim most of the time and Emacs for whatever residue isn't covered by Evil and associated packages. I never enabled Vi mode for any of the shells I've ever used or tmux so what that means is now I'm going to be doing things the same way everywhere.

For what it's worth, I remember hating spacemacs, found it painfully slow, and it constantly stood in my way any time I tried to modify some default functionality. I don't remember doom being this way when I used it.

With evil and associated packages, the only emacs residue that remains is writing your config in elisp instead of vimscript. I never found there was much of a learning curve switching to evil emacs, if any.

 

[Jotch]

Use the editor that you think works the best but also don't be too averse to giving other tools a fair shake, especially if they are popular.
But if you don't like a popular tool that does not mean you must suffer it.
"Just don't like it simple as" is an ok answer for this stuff.

 

[Creative Username]

I want to just do things the Emacs way

make sure to uninstall vim while you're at it
true emacs users always run a vimrus scan at least once a week:

#!/usr/bin/env bash

# set this variable to taste
COMMAND_THAT_DOES_A_THING_AS_ROOT=sudo

if pacman -Qs '^(neo|g)?vi[sm]?$' >/dev/null; then
    echo "🚨ALERT🚨: ☣️ VI-LIKE EDITOR(S) ☣️ DETECTED ON THIS SYSTEM!";
    echo "🧹🧼 Removing all..."
    echo y | $COMMAND_THAT_DOES_A_THING_AS_ROOT pacman -Rsn `pacman -Qqs '^(neo|g)?vi[sm]?$'`
else
    echo "No vim 😌😇🙂"
    echo "+100 GNU/Social Credit score added";
fi

edit: fuck i probably should have used pacman --noconfirm instead of the cheeky pipe i'm retarded

(Also startup time is more or less unimportant if you use emacs -d and emacsclient and just stay in Emacs all day)

emacs noobs always forget that emacs is more of an operating system than a text editor
this is why true emacs users use the legendary init.el, which implements everything from systemd while using 1.2x as much ram

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

For what it's worth, I remember hating spacemacs, found it painfully slow, and it constantly stood in my way any time I tried to modify some default functionality. I don't remember doom being this way when I used it.

With evil and associated packages, the only emacs residue that remains is writing your config in elisp instead of vimscript. I never found there was much of a learning curve switching to evil emacs, if any.

The Evil Collection is pretty extensive but invariably there are going to be lacunae and consequently headaches when I'm trying to do something and maybe the documentation won't be as good. I might use Doom Emacs or at least just Evil and friends in the future but for now using (mostly) vanilla keybindings seems like the way to go, even with a somewhat less opinionated framework.

Use the editor that you think works the best but also don't be too averse to giving other tools a fair shake, especially if they are popular.
But if you don't like a popular tool that does not mean you must suffer it.
"Just don't like it simple as" is an ok answer for this stuff.

It is OK for yourself but it's lacking if you're trying to persuade someone else that your take is the right one

make sure to uninstall vim while you're at it
true emacs users always run a vimrus scan at least once a week:

#!/usr/bin/env bash

# set this variable to taste
COMMAND_THAT_DOES_A_THING_AS_ROOT=sudo

if pacman -Qs '^(neo|g)?vi[sm]?$' >/dev/null; then
    echo "🚨ALERT🚨: ☣️ VI-LIKE EDITOR(S) ☣️ DETECTED ON THIS SYSTEM!";
    echo "🧹🧼 Removing all..."
    echo y | $COMMAND_THAT_DOES_A_THING_AS_ROOT pacman -Rsn `pacman -Qqs '^(neo|g)?vi[sm]?$'`
else
    echo "No vim 😌😇🙂"
    echo "+100 GNU/Social Credit score added";
fi

edit: fuck i probably should have used pacman --noconfirm instead of the cheeky pipe i'm retarded

That is actually a legitimate way of interacting with programs automatically and was originally made into a full extension to the Tcl programming language called Expect. Since Tcl seems pretty ass there are also implementations or equivalents for other languages like Expect.pm for Perl 5 and pexpect for Python. If you have a disgusting dysfunctional neo-organ of some kind there is even rexpect for R*st.

emacs noobs always forget that emacs is more of an operating system than a text editor
this is why true emacs users use the legendary init.el, which implements everything from systemd while using 1.2x as much ram

Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping

 

[Creative Username]

i didnt give enough of a fuck to make an apt one

That is actually a legitimate way of interacting with programs automatically

it is, but when the program has its own option i prefer to use that

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

it is, but when the program has its own option i prefer to use that

Yes, that is the simplest option and in this case it would be completely adequate. Just letting you know there are existing tools out there to run Unix programs "headless" when more sophisticated conditional behavior is required.

 

[Rango Dango]

well i'd say it's like the difference between choosing a babby distro like mint or a more upstream distro like debian
since emacs is an operating system it has distros of course
everything your fancy german doom emacs can do seems to be possible in stock emacs, it just might just not have some of those weird nonstandard tweak customizations
it's just my (warranted) fear of downstream tweakers fucking shit up after dark

minor typo spotted, opinion declared irrelevant

And yes I know that having a syntax highlighting file isn't the same as having tree-sitter support but it's a lot better that than nothing.

yeah, helix only supports treesitter grammars, so if the language is niche enough not to have a treesitter grammar (like the one i actually sometimes use) then youre kinda fucked if you dont know how to write one yourself (i dont)

Also, since Helix is written in R*st, is the community trooned out?

i have literally no clue, ive never interacted with the helix community
fwiw, there are a lot of .nix files in the root of the helix repo
on the other hand however theres no code_of_conduct.md
also the project doesn't have a discord, but a matrix space instead
and matrix is kinda like irc, so kinda based i guess?

 

[Creative Username]

minor typo spotted, opinion declared irrelevant

i did it completely intentionally, "babby" is an intentionally fucked up way to say "baby" that makes the babbyness more emphasized

anyway to make this post slightly on-topic i will say that i have never touched treesitter and i hope i don't have to

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

minor typo spotted, opinion declared irrelevant

 

[y a t s]

but for now using (mostly) vanilla keybindings seems like the way to go, even with a somewhat less opinionated framework.

乁༼◕_◕༽ㄏ

Well, you can lead a horse to water...

Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping

Generally Not Used, Except by Middle-Aged Computer Scientists

 

[Creative Username]

Well, you can lead a horse to water...

he just didn't fall for the hjkl meme (and that's a good thing)
may all viniggers accidentally think they are in insert mode when they're actually in normal mode every day for a thousand years

Generally Not Used, Except by Middle-Aged Computer Scientists

EMACS
MACRO
ACTED
CREDO
SODOM

 

[y a t s]

he just didn't fall for the hjkl meme (and that's a good thing)
may all viniggers accidentally think they are in insert mode when they're actually in normal mode every day for a thousand years

What blows my mind is that he's already familiar with neovim. He's so close to perfection; he just needs to swap the engine to emacs+evil and keep on driving.
Vi emulation is largely a solved problem.

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

What blows my mind is that he's already familiar with neovim. He's so close to perfection; he just needs to swap the engine to emacs+evil and keep on driving.
Vi emulation is largely a solved problem.

Likely availability of documentation will be the deciding factor for now but I can't say things won't change as I become a more mature Emacs user

 

[Creative Username]

Likely availability of documentation will be the deciding factor for now but I can't say things won't change as I become a more mature Emacs user
d52d6eb4-fe44-4094-afbc-7c034531e5dd.mp4

emacs comes with this thing called viper-mode maybe try that for a while

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

emacs comes with this thing called viper-mode maybe try that for a while

Evil appears to be the most full-fledged Vi(m) emulation mode (I think it's actually more a set of related modes, technically, as alluded to above). Anyway, I never did "hjkl" outside of the built-in tutorial, just so you know. We don't have to live completely in the late 70s.

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

Also wait a sec I just noticed something: '^(neo|g)?vi[sm]?$' ... what is the "s" for?

 

[Rango Dango]

Also wait a sec I just noticed something: '^(neo|g)?vi[sm]?$' ... what is the "s" for?

vis which is suckless vim or whatever
apparently has been in active development for at least 11 years now

 

[y a t s]

Anyway, I never did "hjkl" outside of the built-in tutorial, just so you know. We don't have to live completely in the late 70s.

It's just a matter of speed. In Normal mode, you don't have to move your fingers away from the home row on your keyboard to move the cursor around. For up and down, your fingers don't move from the home keys. Moving down is just a quick tap of the index finger.
If it helps, you can use Ctrl-[ instead of ESC to get back to Normal mode. Though swapping ESC and Caps Lock is the best way to go imo. Once you get the hang of it all, it's way faster.

edit: fuck i probably should have used pacman --noconfirm instead of the cheeky pipe i'm retarded

https://linux.die.net/man/1/yes