Programming thread

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I think programming is the most fun when I feel like I'm coming up with my own solution, or when I have some sort of concept that seems like it should work even if it's not obvious, and regardless of the specified intent of anything involved, the content of the pieces when finagled the right way happens to work just the way you want it to. Maybe that's cringe, maybe that's cope, I dunno. I like feeling clever. I definitely can't tell anyone who thinks "the language just isn't powerful enough" that they're wrong, though. It could be that once I've jumped through all the hoops and seen all the tricks before, it'll lose it's luster and I'll just want something that spares me the bullshit.
This isn't unusual, I went through a similar experience with C++ at some point. It's satisfying to tardwrangle the language, but ultimately it's satisfying for the wrong reasons, so unless you're programming for the sake of masturbation, you eventually tire of it after facing a roadblock one too many times.
 
I think I might have Stockholm Syndrome - I understand peoples' criticisms of languages like C++, and I understand what they mean when they say that all the exploitative logical workaround bullshit is merely coping and saving face for not having tools and abstractions strong enough to handle those use cases, but some part of me, at least so far, kinda likes the workaroundy bullshit. It's sort of a logic puzzle, you know?
many programmers love to make programs in esoteric languages such as brainfuck for a little bit of fun...
This isn't unusual, I went through a similar experience with C++ at some point. It's satisfying to tardwrangle the language, but ultimately it's satisfying for the wrong reasons, so unless you're programming for the sake of masturbation, you eventually tire of it after facing a roadblock one too many times.
...and unfortunately, nobody really wants to use esolangs as their main language, because it gets tiring quick

thankfully, c++ isn't really a horrible language. it makes the worst parts of c less bad, having the stl is nice, and isn't really that bad; it's just a huge fucking complicated mess of a language
 
Is there anyway to avoid this im self learning and dont want to end up like them
you have arguably already succeeded
the common thread among people like these is that they think they already know all there is to know about programming and ignorantly go use their very shitty practices in ways that don't make sense, and then they tell people trying to correct them that they don't know what they're doing (ironic)

also yandev and pirate software don't actually do that much programming if you haven't noticed, they in fact do very little
also note that they have their great big magnum opuses and they don't really ever make neat scripts or anything like that. how many times do you see mald or yandev talking about a neat little script they wrote to make something easier?
i wouldn't worry about ending up like them if you stay humble and keep an open mind to good techniques as you keep writing a variety of little programs that do neat things
 
How can people like yanderedev and Pirate software code for decades and still write shit. Is there anyway to avoid this im self learning and dont want to end up like them
To follow up on @Creative Username 's suggestions, something I should mention is that change and progress usually happens as a response to some kind of perceived need. Nobody changes for no reason, so I think the thing to do is to continue exposing yourself to new ideas and concepts, but especially new problems. The easiest way to know you need to improve is to run into a problem you can't solve at your current skill level, but beyond that, staying curious and digging around in anything from others' code or design principles or even just discussions like this will passively bombard you with new concepts and ideas, and you should put the work in to try to at least look into all the stuff you don't know.

The existence of an idea in your head that connects to something else gradually fills out a conceptual "tapestry" that everything slots in alongside over time, and every extra thing you have in there creates that many more bonds to every new piece. Every single thing you look into and try to comprehend will round you out, even if just intuitively, and the very best thing you can do for yourself is to try to seek out more of those "catalyzing thoughts" that push you in the direction of those eurekas that reframe the way you conceptualize the stuff you're working on.

When all else fails, though, yeah, just look for a problem you haven't solved yet. It's probably the best way to guarantee you need to square up with some new info.

also designing systems is fun i learn the most from designing systems even though it means i never actually spend any time working on the projects that i designed the systems for
 
How can people like yanderedev and Pirate software code for decades and still write shit. Is there anyway to avoid this im self learning and dont want to end up like them
They both appear to have jumped into a big passion project that they couldn't handle and their ego will not allow them to abandon/shelf/rewrite (or accept criticism/advice). They also both take money to support the "development" of their games, so they have quite a strong incentive to never actually finish, or take time away from the project in order to improve their skills. The programming/game is a secondary concern.

It should be quite easy to avoid following the same path if you actually enjoy programming.
 
How can people like yanderedev and Pirate software code for decades and still write shit. Is there anyway to avoid this im self learning and dont want to end up like them

Learn more than just code. Learn to draw UML diagrams, architect out even small personal projects. Use AI to ask about "architectural concerns" to help draw UML’s. Then focus on planning out one concern at a time. This... as it happens, is what "separation of concerns" is ACTUALLY talking about. Not dividing code into parts. PlantUML has extensions for JetBrains IDE’s.

Practice writing requirements, then writing tests for those requirements, then writing code to pass those tests. In that order.

Overengineer the fuck out of your personal projects instead of just slapping together some CRUD on a 2-day weekend. Treat the code as the cherry on top, the fun part that lets you finalize everything. Not the skill that completes the job. If all you’re doing is writing code, you are shooting up heroin, not learning.

Watch Modern Software Engineering and conferences. Note how channels like this rarely put code on the screen... mostly because it’s really easy to put together when you’ve planned. You start to learn code is a very low skill the more you practice engineering.

The techfluencers who do code tutorials are primarily social media influencers because the code is a very low skill.

Read SWEBOK.

All that being said, if you just don’t know how to code... like at all. It is a first skill, but it’s just learning to walk before you can run. Learning to code is just training your perspective, learning the rest of the 90% of the job is learning the job. Don’t get stuck doing the simple fun shit forever. Set a career path and push past code as quickly as possible.
 
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You need someone who will give you tough criticism and goals to go with.
Not necessarily "tough" criticism but otherwise yeah. Since I just mentioned Exercism earlier, as a mentor (which I've been a few times), you get instructions on being tactful and delivering constructive criticism. I consider these guidelines mostly common sense but there's a lot of uh ... let's say "neurodivergence" in coding.
Overengineer the fuck out of your personal projects instead of just slapping together some CRUD on a 2-day weekend.
I think that could run afoul of the "premature optimization is the root of all evil" principle. For me it would be writing something truly worth of those kinds of architectural considerations.
 
I think that could run afoul of the "premature optimization is the root of all evil" principle. For me it would be writing something truly worth of those kinds of architectural considerations.
Try building Netflix’s microservices architecture with federation. What have you got? A few downloaded movies and one user? It’s not possible for one person to build anything worth "those kinds of architectural considerations." We’re talking about the results of decades of work, thousands of engineers, and business evolving to meet new uses that just so happen to fit the current logistics.

It seems like you just wanted to throw out "premature optimization" as a reflex without thinking it through.
 
He's making fun of your nationality.
Mars Invictus
mars-40k.webp
 
Almost everything I write for personal use is a "Microservice". I have a Pi with an AI hat doing YOLO object detection. There's one process per camera that monitors the camera's upload directory. Each of those dispatches the path to any new files to the main YOLO process that does the object detection and reports back. My Z-Wave stuff is now one instance of ZwaveJS writing to MQTT and a locally grown process monitoring that and throwing it into Mysql then Munin coming along and graphing. The MATI transcription stuff is likewise a bunch of random "microservices" aka, shell and Python scripts.
 
You start to learn code is a very low skill the more you practice engineering.

The techfluencers who do code tutorials are primarily social media influencers because the code is a very low skill.
programming a system as a bunch of uml diagrams before writing it in a language is only one of the million different ways you can develop programs
many people like to prototype their programs using actual code. it saves a lot of time, you see: people just have to write it once instead of writing it in a too-high-level-to-be-compiled language and then writing it again as something a computer understands
needless to say you still have a good point: you should always think about what you're actually doing and how things will fit into the big picture when you're programming
Don’t get stuck doing the simple fun shit forever. Set a career path and push past code as quickly as possible.
what if op wanted to program for fun? endless uml diagrams can't draw pretty pictures on the screen
Almost everything I write for personal use is a "Microservice".
see he doesn't like a good pipe he thinks you need a funny diagram with several boxes and lines between them instead of typing |
programming tip: never view the entire world through the narrow lens of enterprise java webdev shit

also what you're talking about might not fit the typical definition of "microservice": afaik it means "unix domain socket or something that runs imagemagick or whatever when you shit a file into it"
 
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