Programming thread

[stares at error messages]

Why can't web dev be as elegant? Why is everything built on hipster frameworks that border on incomprehensible (I am sure the developers are very very clever people...)? Why do these people see complexity and long dependency lists as a good thing?

Because trannies and soy-fags write javascript. Anyone who does 'frontend' professionally is a sociopath, gender non-conforming, DSM Cluster-B type. Turns out the Cluster-B people tend to troon out and also really like attetion and hug-boxes for being 'special' and 'creative'. There is a strong overlap of Autism and Narcissistic. I've always suspected it's because they have the same sort of frontal-lobe brain damage; the part that's responsible for thinking critically about you and your relation to the greater world. If it's any consolation they make very 'popular' shitty websites that never get used much after being posted about on twitter.

 

[Least Concern]

The whole landscape of UI development now is in every way worse now than it was in 1999. The sad fact is Flash was better than anything made since. UI development should be done by an artist, not by some hipster with a bunch of shit cobbled together with webpack and babel.

UI experts should develop the UI, not artists. Artists designing UIs is how we get pretty but unusable mystery-meat menus and sites that do things like reimplement scrollbars and have parallax shit and shit that slides around as you scroll and so on.

At any rate, nothing's stopping you from designing a UI like it's 1999. Maybe use divs and CSS instead of tables and inline attributes for everything and so on but you can make web pages that are actual pages. Nothing's stopping you. And a good way to start that is to simply not use a front-end framework that will trap you into doing things you don't want to do. This shit isn't that hard.

 

[Lurk McDurk]

UI experts should develop the UI, not artists. Artists designing UIs is how we get pretty but unusable mystery-meat menus and sites that do things like reimplement scrollbars and have parallax shit and shit that slides around as you scroll and so on.

At any rate, nothing's stopping you from designing a UI like it's 1999. Maybe use divs and CSS instead of tables and inline attributes for everything and so on but you can make web pages that are actual pages. Nothing's stopping you. And a good way to start that is to simply not use a front-end framework that will trap you into doing things you don't want to do. This shit isn't that hard.

You missed the point entirely, I would suggest going to find a youtube video of someone going through the basics of designing a web UI in Flash. It looks exactly like Photoshop (because it is, basically), or any other similar graphics editing tool. There is no way, no how, that one person can accomplish the same things that it could do puttering around with javascript, html, and css.

That's what I'm getting at... HTML and CSS are a pig, and javascript is lipstick put on it. In 20 years they haven't caught up to the tools of the late 90s. That's why virtually every website looks the same outside of the component library they chose to use these days. There hasn't been an aesthetically innovative website to my knowledge since the early 2000s.

 

[Unassuming Local Guy]

Because trannies and soy-fags write javascript. Anyone who does 'frontend' professionally is a sociopath, gender non-conforming, DSM Cluster-B type. Turns out the Cluster-B people tend to troon out and also really like attetion and hug-boxes for being 'special' and 'creative'. There is a strong overlap of Autism and Narcissistic. I've always suspected it's because they have the same sort of frontal-lobe brain damage; the part that's responsible for thinking critically about you and your relation to the greater world. If it's any consolation they make very 'popular' shitty websites that never get used much after being posted about on twitter.

Frontend is essentially a combination of the autism necessary to want to program, and art. So take the cluster B lunatic personality that's inherent in all artists and add programmer brain and you get the monstrosity that is the average javascript dev. They have every personality disorder that exists and are never, ever happy.

 

[benutz]

UI design along with UX design are two different but very interconnected beasts.

It really does take a special kind of autist to do a special implementation that works. No one working in the field will be looking here for answers or recruiting, so it's all shitposting, really. That's ok.

Sometimes you get a very special relationship between an exceptional UI developer and Programmer. See the work of White Tie along with Justin Frankel who not only developed WinAmp - the very first .mp3 player that revolutionised not just the computer world but the music world too. They developled certain frameworks (WALTER), and they have had the best in the business spend a lot of time deving things that just work. Nick Moritz is one. Great artist and sound designer. Some people even charge a few bucks to use these frameworks, sorry, templates, sorry, gui designs or wtf they are called. Fair enough - they took a couple of months of hard work to make up as anyone who has ever tackled this shit can attest. These guys are top of their field.

So that is Programmer and core developer along with GUI designer, with a bit of UX thrown in. Thing is, they can't stop Reaper being absolute shite on the ui/ux front. Too many menus, no consistency between elements. Same old same old problems. And these have the best in the business who don't do it for money but do it for love. Them's the boys you need on your side, and you still can't crack it. Reaper was maybe not the best example to give, but it's a case in point in Gui/UX design.


The whole VST framework containing all the DSP needed is a clusterfuck when you have to put it together with Gui/Ux code. That is where people like Airwindows shine: https://www.airwindows.com/

Chris is a genius. He just cuts out the GUI entirely. No UX either really. You can donate a few bucks monthly if you like. All for free pretty much. He had his plugins integrated in to DAW programs like Tracktion and is now part of the up and coming teams that do old and unused but open source VSTi's like Surge. They will be tackling ShortCircuit next, among others.

Real nerds, doing real nerds work. Loving it, working hard, all for free. Just about.

The relationship between code and ui designer and ux designer is a hard road to go down. Usually the Ui designer is the Ux designer and vice versa. And if you have discrete partners to help with that, it hinders as much as it helps.

I won't PL but I found my niche. You'll never guess what it was. I don't mention it. It's abstract.

Just chatting shit. There's been some good posts about this and I wish the other posters chatting shit would just chat about it more, generally. There's a shit tonne you can learn from people like this, and even if you can't go in to specifics, the generalities really inform on some subjects as well.

Good stuff. Just adding my 2c. I'll add more, and on other subjects as well, if others do too.

Every PL I've ever thrown out just throws shit further off the trail from me. This is getting closer. But still...

Great thread. Keep chatting shit!

 

[Kosher Dill]

UI experts should develop the UI, not artists.

I'm not convinced of that either, given how many awful UI changes over the past 20 years have been justified by "UI experts much smarter than you have proven this design to be optimal".

Where do good UIs come from? I have no clue.

 

[Lurk McDurk]

I'm not convinced of that either, given how many awful UI changes over the past 20 years have been justified by "UI experts much smarter than you have proven this design to be optimal".

Where do good UIs come from? I have no clue.

From people who want to filter the entire internet through three websites on one type of device (a phone), it seems. After all, they're the ones that created the component libraries and javascript frameworks that everyone uses to make cookie cutter website designs.

I seem to remember that a certain evil company from the 80s/90s had a big antitrust suit over a web browser about 20 years ago. Funny the same thing doesn't happen to Chrome and Webkit....

 

[stares at error messages]

UI is what programmers call it. UX is what tranny weirdos call it. Like with APIs, a good UI or GUI is based on accurately addressing the users needs to manipulated the program's data. It's the same when writing a class with just the right methods as it is creating a GUI with just the right controls. But I'm a zealot.

 

[Least Concern]

You missed the point entirely, I would suggest going to find a youtube video of someone going through the basics of designing a web UI in Flash. It looks exactly like Photoshop (because it is, basically), or any other similar graphics editing tool. There is no way, no how, that one person can accomplish the same things that it could do puttering around with javascript, html, and css.

That's what I'm getting at... HTML and CSS are a pig, and javascript is lipstick put on it. In 20 years they haven't caught up to the tools of the late 90s. That's why virtually every website looks the same outside of the component library they chose to use these days. There hasn't been an aesthetically innovative website to my knowledge since the early 2000s.

Bruh, I'm a web developer who often has to do a lot of front-end work too. I used Flash quite a bit early in my professional career, which started in the mid-'00s. I remember a manager on one of the projects I was working on being annoyed because that new Mac I-phone thing wasn't going to support WAP.

When you said web UIs were better in the '00s, I assumed you meant without Flash, since Flash-powered sites were typically shit that slowed down your computer and/or were difficult to navigate - generally to a far worse degree than we have today. You actually thinking Flash UIs were better than what we have now… I'm dumbstruck. You're either misremembering things through nostalgia or you have no taste at all. At least with today's obnoxious UIs things run faster since rendering engines like to delegate stuff to the relatively monstrous GPUs we all have today, and it's possible to build obnoxious UIs that still do very useful things like allowing bookmarks and back/forward buttons to work as expected.

(Although a benefit of the Flash days is that you could avoid the obnoxious bullshit by just leaving Flash disabled until you really needed it. If you loaded up a web page which had that missing plugin icon, you could just hit the back button and do something else instead. We don't always have that forewarning with today's designs.)

 

[Lurk McDurk]

I'm not misremembering, I'm thinking of sites like Newgrounds, Stickdeath, Runescape, etc...

I'm also looking at a google search for "best browser games" and seeing a lot of stuff that is pretty basic / boring compared to what was on those sites by comparison.

 

[mario if smoke weed]

What websites are best for practicing programming? I want to prepare for after I graduate and I've taken all of my programming classes. I miss programming

 

[byuu]

When you said web UIs were better in the '00s, I assumed you meant without Flash, since Flash-powered sites were typically shit that slowed down your computer

Flash sites were cancer. But JS-crap heavy sites like twitter slow my pc down more than Flash ever did.
Java applets were faster than the shit we have now.

 

[Flabba Wabba Jabba]

Because trannies and soy-fags write javascript. Anyone who does 'frontend' professionally is a sociopath, gender non-conforming, DSM Cluster-B type. Turns out the Cluster-B people tend to troon out and also really like attetion and hug-boxes for being 'special' and 'creative'. There is a strong overlap of Autism and Narcissistic. I've always suspected it's because they have the same sort of frontal-lobe brain damage; the part that's responsible for thinking critically about you and your relation to the greater world. If it's any consolation they make very 'popular' shitty websites that never get used much after being posted about on twitter.

I'm doing some front end work right now (even though I exclusively do back-end) and this does not feel like programming.

This feels like baby's first fucking painting because of how stupid and eye-gouging front end development systems are.

 

[benutz]

UI is what programmers call it. UX is what tranny weirdos call it. Like with APIs, a good UI or GUI is based on accurately addressing the users needs to manipulated the program's data. It's the same when writing a class with just the right methods as it is creating a GUI with just the right controls. But I'm a zealot.

Yeah, you're a zealot, it's ok.

Anyone who makes a distinction as strong as that though is probably a tranny as well. Just waiting to get out...

Who gives a fuck? Why are you even posting this shit on a site where no one really in the game would be talking about this here? Did you expect to find more information? Or just get good boi points?

I'm not sure what field of computing or computer programming you work in, but there is a very clear distinction between the discrete components of UI and UX, though granted, you aren't totally wrong. I just think you overstated it a bit much. I'm not invested, so have at it a bit more. I do both, and I can see the distinction. I don't even take offense. You are right in a way.

I work at a higher level again above the UI and UX programmers. At the very highest level of abstraction that there is. So I do know what you are talking about.

UI is what programmers call it. UX is what tranny weirdos call it.

I just find this a bit of an over emotive phrase that tells me someone hurt you somewhere, and you're using this thread to work it all out. It's alright.

You are invested.

I am not.

Keep at it. I'm quite interested in this thread now, though I don't have much more to offer. I wonder where you will take this argument next, and who will join in.

 

[Strange Looking Dog]

What websites are best for practicing programming? I want to prepare for after I graduate and I've taken all of my programming classes. I miss programming

That's a perennial question, and from your wording it sounds like you have some experience yes? Personally I'd recommend picking up a project for practice. If "project" is too broad of a category, try making a practical application like a day planner, a calculator, or something of the like. Certainly it's not breaking new ground, but it'll get you some practice doing front end, back end, and putting it all together.

Wordswordswordswordswords
¿WhO hErT yOu SwEaTy?
Wordswordswordswordswords
In summation, I am not invested you are invested

Crazy how well this post fits the psychological profile of the UX tranny

---

On the topic of the UX tranny, what the hell is with modern apps and offering a limited selection of colors? Like recently firefox was advertising that they added ¡¡¡EIGHTEEN NEW COLORED THEMES!!!, and I'm just left wondering why they wouldn't just offer a color picker. Are they so conceited they believe messing around with swatches constitutes an art? Are they simply afraid of what I might do?

The tranny fears this

 

[Least Concern]

The tranny fears this

No one man should have all that power.

Seriously, themes are an anti-feature. Every single app should have as close to a standardized UI as possible. Don't even give me the option to make my Firefox toolbar pink, please. Just use the same colors every other (properly-written) Mac app on my system uses, please.

But then again, that ship sailed long ago for just about every Mac browser other than Safari anyway.

 

[Lurk McDurk]

What websites are best for practicing programming? I want to prepare for after I graduate and I've taken all of my programming classes. I miss programming

Depends entirely on what you want to do.

The exercises / tutorials on FreeCodeCamp are pretty good for Javascript when I last looked at them. If you want to do backend stuff or statistical / data modeling stuff Python is more applicable, find something fun to do with Django or Flask. The Django docs are some of the best out there, honestly, if you want to learn practical python stuff.

---

On the topic of the UX tranny, what the hell is with modern apps and offering a limited selection of colors? Like recently firefox was advertising that they added ¡¡¡EIGHTEEN NEW COLORED THEMES!!!, and I'm just left wondering why they wouldn't just offer a color picker. Are they so conceited they believe messing around with swatches constitutes an art? Are they simply afraid of what I might do?

The tranny fears this

I used to use this back in the early 2000s. Can anyone honestly say the flat 2d shit we have now looks better? I will maintain until the day I die that the reason basic computer skills are lost with every new generation has as much to do with shit UI design as it does with phones.

It's so much easier to explain this to an elderly retard or a child retard. "The buttons are the ones that stick out, they do things, read them. Their color also denotes their behavior."

 

[Strange Looking Dog]

No one man should have all that power.

Seriously, themes are an anti-feature. Every single app should have as close to a standardized UI as possible. Don't even give me the option to make my Firefox toolbar pink, please. Just use the same colors every other (properly-written) Mac app on my system uses, please.

But then again, that ship sailed long ago for just about every Mac browser other than Safari anyway.

I dunno, you're speaking from the perspective of the developer who hates to see the user make a mess of your baby, but I don't know that said messy user is really going to care so much —and if they do care they can just fix it themselves— so I don't think it's really a usability problem. Besides, what qualifies as a standardized UI? If we're talking desktop apps we can use the OS as a standard, but what about web apps? Beyond mobile scaling, they can't really be expected to adapt to the user's OS, so no matter what the result's going to be a little discordant.

I figure you might as well just make an app with a bit of character; after all the years winamp is still classic.

I used to use this back in the early 2000s. Can anyone honestly say the flat 2d shit we have now looks better? I will maintain until the day I die that the reason basic computer skills are lost with every new generation has as much to do with shit UI design as it does with phones.

It's so much easier to explain this to an elderly exceptional individual or a child exceptional individual. "The buttons are the ones that stick out, they do things, read them. Their color also denotes their behavior."

View attachment 2721618

Yeah I feel you, when I'm doing tech support for relatives the most common problem is that they can't figure out which bits can be interacted with. Hamburger menu is a good example of that. In all honesty it's mobiles' fault, space limitations necessitating the UI hide stuff away and eventually leading to this kind of minimalism.

 

[stares at error messages]

Yeah, you're a zealot, it's ok.

Anyone who makes a distinction as strong as that though is probably a tranny as well. Just waiting to get out...

Who gives a fuck? Why are you even posting this shit on a site where no one really in the game would be talking about this here? Did you expect to find more information? Or just get good boi points?

I'm not sure what field of computing or computer programming you work in, but there is a very clear distinction between the discrete components of UI and UX, though granted, you aren't totally wrong. I just think you overstated it a bit much. I'm not invested, so have at it a bit more. I do both, and I can see the distinction. I don't even take offense. You are right in a way.

I work at a higher level again above the UI and UX programmers. At the very highest level of abstraction that there is. So I do know what you are talking about.

UI is what programmers call it. UX is what tranny weirdos call it.

I just find this a bit of an over emotive phrase that tells me someone hurt you somewhere, and you're using this thread to work it all out. It's alright.

You are invested.

I am not.

Keep at it. I'm quite interested in this thread now, though I don't have much more to offer. I wonder where you will take this argument next, and who will join in.

Seems I stuck a nerve. You must be one huge timtam.

I just find this a bit of an over emotive phrase that tells me someone hurt you somewhere, and you're using this thread to work it all out. It's alright.

Case and point: that's tranny rationalisation. You sound like Tommy Tooter. Next you're going to continue to say, "a UX hasn't decided what's going to be when it was programed because it's gender identity is chosen by the user".

My comment was so innocuous, your over reaction confirms it: we have a tim in the thread. Well, it was only a matter of time. I bet you wear thigh high socks and have had tons of plastic surgeries.

I'm not sure what field of computing or computer programming you work in, but there is a very clear distinction between the discrete components of UI and UX, though granted, you aren't totally wrong. I just think you overstated it a bit much. I'm not invested, so have at it a bit more. I do both, and I can see the distinction. I don't even take offense. You are right in a way.

That is the same logic Russel Greer uses in his law suits, I bet you read them to help your grasp of refutation; I am told you disables like to help each other. You defeat your own claim by admitting UI and UX are about the same. If you don't take into account intent and "what would feel natural" when writing a UI you're doing it wrong. You don't need to make up a new buzz word for doing your job correctly, that would be a dishonest business practice. If you're not testing the UI you just designed to see if your initial assumptions were correct, you're not completing the job you were hired for and potentially committing fraud. Users are also trained to think a certain way from their experiences, so using an easily recognizable paradigm is good, but that's getting into memeology.

You are already committing a fraud because you will never not be the sex you were at conception, so the idea of being an incompetent programmer and hiding it with excessive fees is probably no stranger to you. Gender is conspiracy created by John Money. If you believe you were born in the wrong body, you will believe anything and I have a bridge to sell you.

Since it is John Money Hate Month, you will are invalid. You will never be anything other than your sex at conception. What you think you are now is a delusion -- and a sick and ungodly one at that. The West is over. Enjoy living in your soy-fag hell. God knows I don't miss it.

 

[Frail Snail]

What websites are best for practicing programming? I want to prepare for after I graduate and I've taken all of my programming classes. I miss programming

Project Euler and Exercism might help. I don't know, I'm basically a nocoder. When I'm trying to learn a programming language, the hardest parts aren't the projects but trying to familiarize yourself with the standard library and the most popular third-party ones. Mature languages have so much written for them already that it's hard to keep track.

Yeah, you're a zealot, it's ok.

Anyone who makes a distinction as strong as that though is probably a tranny as well. Just waiting to get out...

Who gives a fuck? Why are you even posting this shit on a site where no one really in the game would be talking about this here? Did you expect to find more information? Or just get good boi points?

I'm not sure what field of computing or computer programming you work in, but there is a very clear distinction between the discrete components of UI and UX, though granted, you aren't totally wrong. I just think you overstated it a bit much. I'm not invested, so have at it a bit more. I do both, and I can see the distinction. I don't even take offense. You are right in a way.

I work at a higher level again above the UI and UX programmers. At the very highest level of abstraction that there is. So I do know what you are talking about.

UI is what programmers call it. UX is what tranny weirdos call it.

I just find this a bit of an over emotive phrase that tells me someone hurt you somewhere, and you're using this thread to work it all out. It's alright.

You are invested.

I am not.

Keep at it. I'm quite interested in this thread now, though I don't have much more to offer. I wonder where you will take this argument next, and who will join in.

In my mind, there are 2 UX camps: improving the productivity of your users by iteratively evolving the UI and trying to make some kind of pseudopsychological field around how your users interact with the program. When abused, the former results in unwanted telemetry and the latter gets co-opted by creepy trannies going on about user "stories", emotional engagement with a user interface, etc.

No one man should have all that power.

Seriously, themes are an anti-feature. Every single app should have as close to a standardized UI as possible. Don't even give me the option to make my Firefox toolbar pink, please. Just use the same colors every other (properly-written) Mac app on my system uses, please.

But then again, that ship sailed long ago for just about every Mac browser other than Safari anyway.

Themes don't violate the principle of least surprise, as long as they don't remove any moving parts. Desktop applications mostly follow Microsoft's guidelines even if they're not aware of them. In the case of browsers, most of their viewport is non-standard anyway because it's used to view web apps. What's the harm in changing the color or a bar then? On the other hand, some official standards are maintained by retards who think removing universal buttons for minimizing and maximizing windows is a genuinely good idea.