Programming thread

Rust is explicitly tied to Current Year politics, which is retarded. It's a fucking tool. I don't expect my screwdriver to lecture me about Marxist dialectics.

It's also opinionated technologically, and has some very questionable design decisions: stuff like static linking, or Cargo. Or mandatory static analysis. I don't think it's going to get better.

If Rust has any sort of future, it'll be because C++ nicks its good bits.
 
You should decompile Terraria if you want to see the longest fucking nested if/else statement in existence.
Did Indians write this code?
Anyone tried Rust? Looks interesting, you can see the good stuff they took from other languages. Steep learning curve for sure.
Rust is an interesting language worth learning for the future. It's good for writing command-line applications, not so much gamedev or GUI development. Don't let the "community" get to you. It's just a tool to get a job done.
Not Rust related, but I wanted to comment on how shitty Uses This has gotten in the past couple of years. Before, the site featured a ton of developers with interesting setups and tools, many of which I've incorporated into my workflow. Nowadays, the people interviewed are low-tier "writers," "podcasters," or "social media managers" who use some variation of the following setup: "Google Docs for writing; Gmail for email; Google calendar for scheduling; and a Macbook Pro for it all! ^_^" Of course, the site's desire to be "inclusive" and "diverse" has led to degraded posts.
 
If y'all think the Rust community is the pinnacle of troonery, then wait till y'all find out about the programming language/compiler development community.
 
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there's trannies literally everywhere and it's kinda disheartening and strange that they're so massively disproportionately represented in this field. Something something autism, terminally online and becoming the anime girlfriend is my guess.

Also yes, as dumb as it is, it makes me distrust rust too. These mentally ill assholes have shown themselves that they stop from nothing. Between that one package that'd become malicious if ran on russian computers to #dropkiwifarms sadly I started paying attention to what crowd actually runs with a given piece of open source.
 
If y'all think the Rust community is the pinnacle of troonery, then wait till y'all find out about the programming language/compiler development community.
From my experience they're all grumpy greybeards. But then again I'm a sepples-fag, it might be different for a lesser language. EDIT: Sy Brand at Microsoft maybe, but he's a they/them rather than a proper troon.

what kind of dog would create such a project that perverts the inclusivity of rust
Top-tier trolling from Null there, using their own tools against them. I'm honestly surprised he's not been banned from GitHub yet, just because of who he is.
 
I made an account to comment in this thread. Some of you have the right ideas, but others seem to have misconceptions of the reason why computers exist. Computers exist to automate work, and can be worse than useless if the automation be flawed, no differently than clocks exist to tell the time and how a wrong clock can be worse than no clock. I've seen some of this in this thread, but decided to read only the last fifty pages. Any roadblock to automation makes a computer flawed in a different way. The automation of automation is also very important.

Nonsense such as the C programming language is an affront to good design, and directly impedes correctness and automation. At best, one should be lightly familiar with the language purely to interface with it from better languages, such as Ada, and to argue about it on the Internet; many bizarre constructs in the C language are unknown even by programmers who claim to know the language. It's neither simple nor reveals the inner workings of computers; machine code is suitable for some of that, but many C language programmers ignore everything below it without good reason.

I've not seen APL mentioned at all, although the search functionality for this website may not allow for searching such short strings. New programmers should probably learn APL before anything. It's not particularly suited to automating automation itself, but is so concise that it won't matter for many problems; furthermore, it teaches a style of programming that is implicitly parallel, and can prevent a new programmer from getting stuck in the one-at-a-time thinking otherwise so common. The core of APL programming is transforming and shaping data like a sculptor, until arriving at the solution, and this is how most all programming in general should be done. GNU provides an implementation of APL that is suitable, but I can't give advice for learning it beyond reading some old books.

The entire state of computing is rotten, and no suitable computers currently exist; Free Software groups are generally preoccupied with poorly mimicking proprietary software that isn't very good, such as the Linux kernel being tens of millions of lines for a part of UNIX, and without even a decent memory exhaustion strategy. Alan Kay and others made good progress towards reinventing computing in the form of the Viewpoints Research Institute, but that research is now defunct. Regardless, it's still worth a glance every now and again. Personally, I take issue with what currently passes for machine text, for both programming and human languages; better can be done for both ends.

I'd be glad to share some educational resources from myself and others, if there would be interest.
 
there's trannies literally everywhere and it's kinda disheartening and strange that they're so massively disproportionately represented in this field. Something something autism, terminally online and becoming the anime girlfriend is my guess.

Also yes, as dumb as it is, it makes me distrust rust too. These mentally ill assholes have shown themselves that they stop from nothing. Between that one package that'd become malicious if ran on russian computers to #dropkiwifarms sadly I started paying attention to what crowd actually runs with a given piece of open source.
Just wait until you have to read source code for even Linux distros before installing because bad actors, might as well build your own soon.
 
New programmers should probably learn APL before anything.

I'm assuming this is autism rather than trolling. C is good enough, and that's all that matters. Even if APL were the holy grail language, you'd still be putting yourself at needless disadvantage by using something so obscure.

The entire state of computing is rotten, and no suitable computers currently exist

Sure they do. I have a magical box that allows me to shitpost. Suitable enough for me.
 
I'm assuming this is autism rather than trolling.
That's correct.

C is good enough, and that's all that matters. Even if APL were the holy grail language, you'd still be putting yourself at needless disadvantage by using something so obscure.
It's practically impossible to write a correct program in the C language; even the supposed experts with decades of experience find themselves to be incapable of it. One way to write a correct program is to write a small program, and the C language is also very bad for writing small programs. APL is no holy grail language, but it's not damned like so many others.

Something I forgot to mention in my first post was this preoccupation with programming purely for employment, rather than for learning or its own sake. Now, programming for its own sake is how messes get started, but it's not purely bad. It's like learning how to cook or write, instead of cooking or writing purely for employment.

Sure they do. I have a magical box that allows me to shitpost. Suitable enough for me.
Sure, but a supercomputer is needed to do that, and it's still slow and randomly fails at times, right?
 
Epic have come up with a new language for computer games. It's a bunch of lisps smashed together.
For reference: Tim Sweeney has been talking about this since 2005 (at least!) and this is the best he could come up with. He even hired some celeb from the haskell project.
I assume Epic are banking on those 512gb ram boards being available to consumers in the near future. Might need 2 of those actually.
 
It's practically impossible to write a correct program in the C language; even the supposed experts with decades of experience find themselves to be incapable of it. One way to write a correct program is to write a small program, and the C language is also very bad for writing small programs. APL is no holy grail language, but it's not damned like so many others.
Dude you sound as obsessed about correctness as Rust trannies do about memory safety. In the reality of any engineering field, good enough is considered perfect. The Linux kernel is not "correct", there are most definitely deadlocks that will bring down a system at random, but generally speaking deciding to not solve a very hard bug over a crash that occurs with a 1 in every 100 million instances of Linux is acceptable. Also verification of C code in a non-trivial real world project exists.

I really don't think you can build a microkernel or a webengine with APL, and even if you could I don't think regular developers would enjoy looking at Wingdings all day. If I am wrong I am willing to eat my words however.

I will say I do agree that C is poor for many purposes especially smaller programs with one purpose, solving a programming challenge in C over Python is certainly a nightmare after all.
 
Dude you sound as obsessed about correctness as Rust trannies do about memory safety.
Rust is simply the effeminate man's Ada. Trannies also breath, at least for a time, but I'm not going to go around telling people to stop breathing, at least for a time. Rust has no good reason to exist beyond ignoring history.

In the reality of any engineering field, good enough is considered perfect.
Programming isn't engineering; programming is mathematics, and perfection is expected with mathematics. It's malpractice to not be concerned with correctness, and most programs lack the utility to be compared with engineering anyway. In any real engineering discipline, a programmer who wrote such flawed programs as we see would be imprisoned, as would some of the executives at his employer. MicroSoft wouldn't exist if programming were anything like real engineering.

The Linux kernel is not "correct", there are most definitely deadlocks that will bring down a system at random, but generally speaking deciding to not solve a very hard bug over a crash that occurs with a 1 in every 100 million instances of Linux is acceptable.
If the Linux kernel were so reliable, it would be less of an issue, but it's nowhere near such reliability, especially as part of an integrated system for which the kernel be but implementation detail.

Also verification of C code in a non-trivial real world project exists.
Show me one other non-trivial, verified C language program, and try showing one that didn't start out in different languages first. Ada SPARK is practical for this, and Ada is simultaneously a lower and higher language.

I really don't think you can build a microkernel or a webengine with APL, and even if you could I don't think regular developers would enjoy looking at Wingdings all day. If I am wrong I am willing to eat my words however.
The WWW is a nonsensical pile of vague and contradicting requirements, so I agree there. APL has been used to formally model hardware for verification, but it's not really a language for writing microkernels, and kernels in general are also something which needn't be.

I will say I do agree that C is poor for many purposes especially smaller programs with one purpose, solving a programming challenge in C over Python is certainly a nightmare after all.
Python's another bad language, but without quite as many defenders, and some issues traded out for others. It would probably be better for new programmers to learn Python than the C language, but both could be said to inflict braindamage.
 
Double-posting as @UERISIMILITUDO's post was in newfag jail when I posted.

Programming isn't engineering

Programming is a technical field, requiring some skill, in which time and money are traded off against safety and correctness. That's literally the definition of engineering.

There's also the fact that hardware isn't perfect, so it's a waste of time worrying that software isn't perfect. Most of the time when I get a kernel panic it's because of a hardware error, which is good enough for me.

One thing you never see from advocates of dead languages is an acknowledgement of why their language failed...
 
Programming is a technical field, requiring some skill
Dude you sound as obsessed about correctness as Rust trannies do about memory safety.
I am a retard who really appreciates the typing system of F# because it helps me not fuck up too badly, most of the time. And yet, I am still somehow employed as a programmer.

Programmers are idiots, in general. Don't trust them.
 
There's also the fact that hardware isn't perfect, so it's a waste of time worrying that software isn't perfect.
In all seriousness, I believe this defense to be an insult. Computer hardware is the pinnacle of human engineering, and is imperfect purely as a result of existing physically; if software were as reliable as hardware, we'd be in a much better position; to excuse the part that can be perfect, software, because the other part, hardware, can only approach perfection is such a poor and insulting defense.

I'll start sharing some wisdom: Hardware can fail; Software Does Not Fail.

One thing you never see from advocates of dead languages is an acknowledgement of why their language failed...
I suppose the Chinese and Indians become the best humans by this same reasoning, since they're most numerous, right?
 
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