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Creative Username said:
this is the whitest possible thing you can do
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I'd do it if it was for myself. Unfortunately it's for a customer I am "consulting", whose audience consists of unserious people easily distracted by shiny objects, it should be at least a little retarded-looking. The customer is not much better, she has a good product but sells it through social media AI spam on the advice of more experienced spammers, and word of mouth. She does not have a catalog. I want to sell her on a catalog and some basic CMS, sign a permanent contract, and get paid a share of her sales doing "IT support" (nothing).
 
Belisarius Cawl said:
I suck at CSS and have to use Bootstrap to make things responsive. I don't know how much it degrades without JS though.
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Bootstrap is the antichrist to me. Just use custom html tags and basic css selectors to style it instead of throwing hundreds of classes onto basic bitch divs.

Also, CSS is really not that hard, you just gotta sit down and actually bother learning it for a few hours. But it's such a basic tech, that a LOT of people think they are above spending any time learning it.
 
canalCrab said:
Also, CSS is really not that hard, you just gotta sit down and actually bother learning it for a few hours. But it's such a basic tech, that a LOT of people think they are above spending any time learning it.
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No, it's not that I'm arrogant and I think learning it is beneath me. I see people (including a close friend) who can do incredible things with CSS. I am just not one of them. It probably doesn't help that there isn't any kind of automatic grading really possible for aesthetic CSS matters like there is with more strictly programmatic matters that I excel at (or at least am competent at).
 
Safir said:
I'd do it if it was for myself. Unfortunately it's for a customer I am "consulting", whose audience consists of unserious people easily distracted by shiny objects, it should be at least a little retarded-looking. The customer is not much better, she has a good product but sells it through social media AI spam on the advice of more experienced spammers, and word of mouth. She does not have a catalog. I want to sell her on a catalog and some basic CMS, sign a permanent contract, and get paid a share of her sales doing "IT support" (nothing).
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Most of the eye candy can be done with pure css, transitions are a life saver in that department.
Belisarius Cawl said:
Is that specific to AuCTeX? It does seem like a lot to learn and I might finally just learn LyX
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I'm not sure, never went outside of the guardrails with it. But it seems pretty short and customizable.
canalCrab said:
Bootstrap is the antichrist to me.
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Me too, any of the javascript frameworks, they just seem needlesly complicated to me. I know some basic html, css and js. I prefer simple pages over overcomplicated BS. HTML + CSS is perfect for 99% of the stuff I want to do, sometimes little QOL improvements with a sprinkling of JS - but I try to avoid that when I can.
 
Belisarius Cawl said:
No, it's not that I'm arrogant and I think learning it is beneath me. I see people (including a close friend) who can do incredible things with CSS. I am just not one of them. It probably doesn't help that there isn't any kind of automatic grading really possible for aesthetic CSS matters like there is with more strictly programmatic matters that I excel at (or at least am competent at).
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Oh I didn't intend to imply that you are arrogant. I was more talking about people saying css is harder than it is because they refuse to actually bother learning it. CSS certainly is a different skillset than writing code. I can relatively easily implement layouts exactly as given by someone else. I can't for the life of me create something based off of some vague "i want it like that" with a rough outline either.
Zeftax said:
Me too, any of the javascript frameworks, they just seem needlesly complicated to me. I know some basic html, css and js. I prefer simple pages over overcomplicated BS. HTML + CSS is perfect for 99% of the stuff I want to do, sometimes little QOL improvements with a sprinkling of JS - but I try to avoid that when I can.
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How it ought to be IMO. Though, bootstrap without js is quite possible to use. (yeah you lose some functionality but for a large part, bootstrap can be used like a css only lib)
 
Zeftax said:
I'm not sure, never went outside of the guardrails with it. But it seems pretty short and customizable.
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I recently have had a bit of Emacs fatigue (fuck it, we're generalizing the term "nigger fatigue" for technology now) from trying to set it up to edit Java. I finally noped out after a MELPA package wouldn't load and after briefly considering installing IntelliJ or something like this I remembered I already have Neovim and Neovim, with LazyVim, got a suitable Java LSP up and running with zero effort on my part. I will miss Magit in Neovim but Lazygit (which is a standalone TUI that is also integrated with Neovim) seems quite good too.
canalCrab said:
CSS certainly is a different skillset than writing code.
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Yes indeed
 
Zeftax said:
I wonder if I will hit that soon. I want to try to use a laptop without X for the next semester to get more familiar with emacs (org mode specifically, I always read about how good it is, but never really understood what it has over combination of vimwiki + a paper diary).
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Emacs is honestly better with X. I don't believe translucency works in the terminal and that's not just a rice feature. It's incredibly useful for looking at a tutorial document behind the window (or "frame", rather, in the case of Emacs) and transcribing things. You will not learn anything from just copying and pasting. Also rich text, graphics etc. don't really work in the terminal either. As far as Org-mode is concerned, it could be considered a predecessor to what is now possible with Jupyter Notebooks (code interleaved with formatted documentation) and includes various other features like scheduling tasks. (I haven't used it yet myself.)
 
Belisarius Cawl said:
Emacs is honestly better with X.
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I don't doubt it, but when using X I often find myself preferring using vim, librewolf, thunderbird, konversation, dino, ... I really want to see the "emacs operating system", if only to be able to say it's not for me with absolute certainity and honesty.
I don't like jupyter notebooks. I plan on mostly just taking some notes. Running code from a notebook seems retarded to me (I can imagine some exceptions, but the way I have seen people use it really soured the concept for me).
 
Zeftax said:
I don't doubt it, but when using X I often find myself preferring using vim, librewolf, thunderbird, konversation, dino, ... I really want to see the "emacs operating system", if only to be able to say it's not for me with absolute certainity and honesty.
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Then you'll be using a lot of Emacs Lisp. It did benefit from finally implementing lexical binding as more than a disgusting hack maybe about a decade ago (?) but it's not a first-rate Lisp, as I understand it. Lisp fans are not big fans of Emacs Lisp. I just use it for configuration and my grasp of it is pretty superficial, just like my understanding of Lua with respect to Neovim.

EDIT: You may have better luck with Emacs in terms of integration with other Lisps than Vim or Neovim. SLIME is considered really fantastic for Common Lisp.
 
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Lard Shart said:
Regarding JavaScript on the web:

In contrary to most programming advice, you should pick an extreme.

1. Have no or very little JavaScript for a website.
2. Have one standalone HTML+CSS+JS bundled page for a webapp.

Websites should be usable without JavaScript enabled.
Webapps should be easily downloadable and run offline.

It's in between where you will encounter the horrors of the modern web.
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yes you either use the web as a powerful widely-supported hypertext system or you use it as a general-purpose wasm-based virtual machine that just so happens to have a weirdly low install time
anything in between is hard to do properly and makes users suffer
canalCrab said:
Rawdogging tex would certainly be a choice.
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yeah i think i will go for latex if i need to typeset things really excellently
canalCrab said:
I was thinking along the lines of using it for loading the next page on a paged list of results. And there only as a form of progressive enhancement.
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this is probably not needed and will waste users' time and bandwidth loading a javascript that loads page 2 when they just want to click on something on page 1
and if you are doing it right, page 2 will already be loading so fast that you won't need to preload it with horrible javascript anyway
i mean it sounds like a great idea in theory but you probably just aren't going to need it and the risks seem to outweigh the minor benefits for me
Belisarius Cawl said:
I suck at CSS and have to use Bootstrap to make things responsive. I don't know how much it degrades without JS though.
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just use flexbox and a media query or two nigga
and put that viewport tag in the head tag to make the units actually work right
css3 is so fucking easy
Belisarius Cawl said:
it's not a first-rate Lisp, as I understand it. Lisp fans are not big fans of Emacs Lisp.
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elisp is regarded in the lisp pantheon to be the lowest form of lisp, which means it is at least 4% better than python, 1% better than javascript, $\infty\%$ better than rust, and at most 12% worse than lua
Belisarius Cawl said:
SLIME is considered really fantastic for Common Lisp.
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and if you like scheme you should take a look at geiser
 
Creative Username said:
this is probably not needed and will waste users' time and bandwidth loading a javascript that loads page 2 when they just want to click on something on page 1
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That's fair
Creative Username said:
and if you are doing it right, page 2 will already be loading so fast that you won't need to preload it with horrible javascript anyway
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HTMX doesn't do preloading by itself. All it does is replace a specified html element with whatever comes from the server. The entire library is under 50 kilobytes vendored on my server.
Creative Username said:
i mean it sounds like a great idea in theory but you probably just aren't going to need it and the risks seem to outweigh the minor benefits for me
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It's for my personal website, and quite frankly, I just want to use it because I think it's neat tech and provides some nice to have stuff while still allowing the site to work without js (for the most part, I do have some subpages that are essentially a react SPA, but those are very highly interactive, like a game)
 
Belisarius Cawl said:
There's also TeXmacs, a more traditional WYSIWYG program suitable for STEMlord purposes:
The name is somewhat inexplicable: TeXmacs can export to LaTeX, but it is not a central feature. Any ties to Emacs are also fairly loose.
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TeXmacs would be the best WYSIWYG editor on the market if it wasn't so slow and buggy. Last time i tried making something serious with it namely 50+ slide presentation it was constantly shitting itself. Sadly Mogan isn't better. Also trying to configure it in a manner that one would Emacs is pure pain.
 
analrapist said:
https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2025/09/the-ruliology-of-lambdas/ - Stephen Wolfram dropped this banger on lambdas yesterday. Haven't read the whole thing yet, it's about as dense as they come, (thanks lambda) but what I read has been really solid.
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I've really only heard about Wolfram|Alpha, didn't know a guy called Wolfram made it (i'm still relatively young ok?.........)
browsing thru the blog titles I saw a lot of interesting stuff, definitely gonna read a lot of it, so thank you for giving me something to do for the rest of the day :)
 
Zeftax said:
Running code from a notebook seems retarded to me
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The thing notebooks provide over a full on script is having everything be global. You don't have to reason about where to store data or state in the runtime. It's sort of similar to a shell, sometimes you just want some data loaded in and to hammer at it.
Also, having support for visualization tools like matplotlib.pyplot, PIL images, you can even have wav files just render with a little player if you want.
Notebooks are nice for when your main priority is trying to manipulate batches of data and visualize it, you can rerun parts of the notebook without running the entirety of it from scratch.

It's just a different focus as far as writing code
 
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